in NA trim and in super or turbo charger trim. also what kind of power was preston smith getting from his 305

 

Willie makes around 450/470rwhp with his supercharged 305.

 

it depends...if u want a daily driver..then u can probley 350-375 out of it....if its a N/A strip then over 400 easily....if u want a S/C then your lookin at 525-550...but then u add a 125 nitrous and well add it up...

im doin a little buildup this winter..im goin after 350-375 hp and 425 ft pounds flywheel...thatll be enough to give a z06 a run for its money

granted do the same to a bigger motor and the results will be greater...but hell i like my little 305

 

what all do you have done to your 305??
im debating on either workin on my engine or buying a stealth TT AWD to work on.

 

These small blocks can surprise you, man. Though a stealth TT is quite a cool base, I'd rather mess with a chevy 305 anyday - think about all the choices you have as far as our aftermarket goes. Theres an overwhelming number of tried and true combos to make the amount of power desired, and our cars (thirdgens) are pretty much dirt cheap these days! =D

 

I think about 3.4 HP and 2.1 FT/LBs of TQ

 

Lol, 375 Hp out of a Daily driver 305 ?

Maybe with a 175 Shot )

I Challenge you to show me the NA strip 305 wich will make over 400.

 

ok

 

Are we talking with or without TPI?

 

Well, though a 305 isn't really worth working on for the most part, if you have a low mileage LB9 to start with, there's no reason not to invest in it with parts that could be transferred to a 350. I haven't gotten my 305 GTA to the track yet, but I'm sure it'd give many people on this board a run for their money. And when it goes in a few months or few years, I can just transfer a majority of the parts to a 350, 383, or 400.
I'm willing to bet my car puts out about 400 HP at the flywheel with my modifications on my low mileage LB9 that started its life as a 220HP/300ftlb motor.
Procharger 600B 12 lb of boost, 2 core intercooler, SLP 1 3/4 headers, Accell 300+ignition, 24 lb LT1 injectors, 3 " flomaster exhaust, and a couple other minor things.... all of which (with maybe the exception of the injectors) are transferrable to a 350.

Jon

 

A 305 isn't worth working on? Damn, someone ought to go tell all of the 5.0 Liter car owners that performance starts with a 350 or bigger

 

ive seen carbed 305's... bored out.. but 305's none the less, running 11's... now what... oh yea! shut u down! ahhh yea! wow... to much candy AHAH DIGAAFFAHHHA YEA

 

A 305 can run as much HP as you have money.

 

Yep, only substitute for cubic inches is cubic $. Anybody else think this is going to deteriorate into another 305 vs 350 flame war?

 

Yes, I do. And it's a pitty that it will as I enjoy reading these threads before they get completley off topic.

 

Uuuuhhh NASCAR runs 305 CID max....what are their HP numbers?

 

They don't get off topic, it's just that most people are too stupid to effectively argue or comprehend what they are arguing against. And that goes for both sides of the debate. IMO, it all boils down to, for the same outlay of money, a 350 will ALWAYS be more powerful than a 305 with the same amount of money (of course assuming you're not going to compare an idiot's rendition of a 350 vs. a super stock pro engine builder's 305 or something. apples to apples, CI is king)

And i can't verify, but i think i've heard whispers that preston smith's '305' is not a 3.74 x 3.48 engine. Or at least his new turbo engine isn't. Of course with enough turbo/sc and the wick turned up, the moon is the limit, even if he was using a bore limited 305.


This comment is just plain silly though. #1, a ford 302 and a chevy 305 have nothing in common. The ford 302 might have a bad rod stroke ratio, but at least it has a 4" bore. A big bore is key to making power as it lets you run better heads, as well as reduces / eliminates shrouding effects to also let the heads flow more than they would on a smaller bore. #2 a lot of the streetable (and not streetable) stang guys running fast are moving to 347 strokers. Granted i'm not a stang guy, but i know more than a couple guys running 11s and beyond, and they're all running strokers or 351 based engines. Can you build an 11 second NA 302. Sure. Can you do it easier and with more driveability with a 347, yup.

 

well put Ed... well put... i still wana make my 305 hit 13's and then swap all that funny stuff over to the 350...that one day will fall from the sky, and right into place into the engine bay of my camaro.... keeping fingers crossed....and maybe ill get lucky and it will be a 383 with a LT1 intake on top... that would be awsome..

 

If you plan on replacint the 305 with a 350 in the near future (2-3 years) I wouldn't do much with the 305, unless you just want to spend money.

A lot of what you are going to spend money on is machine work for the block and heads and another good chunk is going to be on 305 specific parts, ie; pistons, crank, cam (though that would fit in the 350 it isn't advisable to use used valve train components).

If it were me and I was planing on replacing the 305 in a 5 year or less time frame, I would concentrate on parts that both engines could use and on suspension mods.

 

lol, i can see it now, somebody is gonna get mad because i called everybody stupid. Guess that came out wrong. What i meant was, too poor of a debater for the argument to be useful. As in you end up with everybody 'arguing' for or against something, without actually addressing anybody else. You end up with some guy who has a stock 305 who thinks low 14s is going fast arguing that a 350 is more expensive since he needs to swap engine vs. a guy who wants to build a NA 12 second daily driver who knows damn well that building a 305 to do that is gonna take more $$$ and work than a 350. Stuff like that.

 

i have a file in my possesion that inforces my first point...a daily drivin 305 tpi makin over 400 horse....actually 409 at the crank....using the same parts u can use on a 350....the stock "081" casting rebuilt and ported a bigmouth tpi base large tube runners proted plenum...and a tpis super profile l98 cam....now if anyone has any questions i will be happy to send them the file...hes puttin down 350 to the wheels which is about 410 horse at the crank...he runs 12.27@111.78 alltitude corrected on motor an 11.77@117.39 on a 125 shot...
ohh hes also puttin down 402 horse to the wheels with the happy gas...and just for ***** and giggles he also puttin...well hell i post this little part
Rear wheel dynamometer torque measurements in 4th gear: (hp = tq * rpm / 5252)

Fuel pressure = 53 psig, base ignition advance = 6 degrees:
400 lb-ft @ 3100 rpm (236 hp)
410 lb-ft @ 3600 rpm (281 hp)
390 lb-ft @ 4200 rpm (312 hp)
340 lb-ft @ 4700 rpm (304 hp)
310 lb-ft @ 5000 rpm (295 hp)

pretty good for a 305 huh
it would seem kinda dumb for me to post this and not have anything to back it up right?...well like i said pm me and ill be more then happy to "prove" that u can make 400 horse from a DAILY DRIVIN 305 TPI

yea if this was a 350 the would be 50+ more ft pounds and more hp...but ths topic is "how much can u make with a 305"

 

Well said. Actually i apologize for biting into the start of the 305/350 thing, that isn't what this post is about at all. Let's keep on track folks.

 

They do? I thought they where 358ci or something odd like that?

 

yea the winston cup motors are 358ci's....and rev to 93-9400..absolutly bad@ss

any takers on my file yet?

 

I was told (by a rabid NASCAR fan) that they were limited to 305 CID with restrictors (for just 1 or 2 tracks).
But which ever..the 305 had as much potential as you have money, its just easier to get the power from a 350.

 

Whatever dude - my comments silly? How about the comment of how a 305 isnt worth working on? Thats silly. I didnt draw a comparison b/w the 302 and the 305. I said "5.0 Liter"... and I didnt argue for or against anything, but I guess when you want to show off knowledge and put someone down, you dont stop to think about twhat they meant =P

 

Okay, lets seperate this into two groups.

1.) The guys who refuse to belive that the 305 is inferior to the 350. Those people are not even worth the time it took to type this sentace. If your In this group pls exit thread left.

2.) The rest of us who know that a 305 is limited severly, but are willing ti discuss its potential.

F-crazy, those are good Dyno # for a 305, but I don't see 400 Hp there... did you paste all the info ? Maybe I am just reading it wrong.

Also, Where does that Dyno Info come from ?

I appriciate your evidence, But I am always skeptical when I don't know the source, Im Sure you understand.

400 Hp out of a 305 is always possible... but at What Cost ?

400 Hp out of a daily driven NA Car is IMO on the ragged edge of possible, But I could always be proven wrong.

BTW Daily driver is a fairly loose term. If your pullin 10 mpg and putting 5k miles a year on the car, thats not daily driven.

 

hey a 305 is $hit load better than a 2.8L.

 

D Stroy H8 - when people start ragging on 305s, inevitably somebody brings up mustang performance The way you worded that reply thats what it seemed like you were getting at.

 

hey, i know the 305 cant make power like the 350 can... i just wana see, with parts i can swap over, what i can do to the 305 that can smoke modded L98, or stock LT-1's and LS-1's.... then the 350 can come in after that so i can hit 11's... ok? sounds like a plan... alright!

 

Yeah man I don;t want to fight witrh anyone - these are message boards and we are here to share our collective knowledge. I just think the statement "a 305 isnt worth working on" is ridiculous. I means damn, what about the 3.1ers and even the 2.8ers?? Any engine is worth working on! ROCK WHAT YOU GOT, HOLMES! =D

 

Yes, if you could, please PM it to me...It's a parts list right?

 

As much as you want, my friend has an 11.5:1 302 making 450hp. Just keep in mind, a 350 would make more than that with the same parts, and thats all there is to it.

 

That has no relavence on the 305 issue.

The Thing is, There are lots of parts You can buy now and use on your 305, and then also use later when you decide to get a real Motor.

Personally, If I Had to Do it all again I would not waste time or money On internal Mods for the Stock LG4. I would have gotten headers, Roller Rockers, Ignition, Exhuast, ect... All parts I will use again on a 350.

Then I would have taken the 800 bucks I spent on the Cam swap ect and bought Myself a used L98 to start rebuilding.

But Hindsight is always 20/20, So Let my experiance Be To your benifit.

 

since we're already off topic and I don't feel like typing this again:

It breaks down like this. The 302 from its inception in the 60’s was developed as a performance engine. The 305 when it debuted in the mid 70’s was designed to be an economical, gas saving alternative to the bigger motors at the time. Therefore the 302 was built stronger with more of an “eye towards performance” and will respond to mods better than the 305.

Now, that being said, that doesn’t mean the 305 is a bad motor, or that a 305 5spd thirdgen can’t beat a 5.0 stang. The intent behind developing the R6P or G92 performance package for the 305 TPI 5spd, was to make it more competitive with LX 5.0 Mustangs. That’s why the horsepower and torque numbers are the same. Of course the reduced weight of the Mustang gives it an edge. So a stock for stock, a Stang might have a 2-3 tenths advantage over a 305 Formula or Z and a 350 Formula or Z will run just about even with it.

Here’s an “average” comparison:
305 TPI 5spd..14.7-15.0
350 TPI auto…14.4-14.7
302 HO 5spd..14.4-14.7

 

Good Point TPI terror, Ill add some Specifics.

The Chevy 302 is a 4" Bore W/ Shortend ( 283") Stroke. The exact number escapes me.

The Chevy 305 is a Smaller bore ( again, the CRS kicks in ) with a ~3.5" Stroke.

The limitations in the 305's Power Potential Do Not arise from its Displacement, but Rather its Small Bore.

So Comparisons to the Ford 302 and the Chevy 302 Don't Mean Sqaut.

 

400HP n/a Flywheel i believe...not bad though

 

bort...yes i do beleive the 305 in "inferior" to a 350...you will always get more power out ofa 350 witrh the same amoutn of money....i have the complet file but i didnt want to post because its really big...hes got every thing in there from crank/piston max mean speed (which is 6034 rpms for a stock cast crank) to the tires hes using...theres more information in there then alot pf people could use...i dont remember where he had it dynoed but ill send u the file...pm me with your e-mail address.....

the same for you Roc-Z...send me your e-mail addy and ill send it..

morley..all there motors are 358 cubes...just different "pakages" for the differnt tracks..you wouldnt use the same cam for martinsvile and atlanta....one were they hit about 120 tops and the other were they hit 200...and the restrictors your talking about...they use on talledega and daytona....which if they werent used the cars would hit 220-230mph...so they limit them to about 6800-7000 (450-475 hp) depending on the gear they use..

that was off topic a little bit...but as far as being daily drivin he does...he drives it to work and everywere...about 300 miles/week and gets 18 city and 24 hiway...that would be daily drivin right

 

Speaking strictly theoretically, a 305 should be able to make in the neighborhood of 1,400 HP with the appropriate fuel, C/R, and boost pressure, and at almosst 100% VE. The trick, of course, is getting the VE numbers up to something respectable with the limitations of the bore. I think most of us would be hard-pressed to get even 75% efficiency. Add 20 or so pounds of boost, nitromethane, and 10:1 compression, and you might have a chance of achieving that theoretical maximum.

Of course a 350 is always going to have some advantages in plain displacement and being more oversquare. That doesn't make a 305 a bad choice if you already have one. Then again, if you'r going to spend a fistful of cash and time on teh 305, you might as well get a different engine case, a stand, and build a more powerful engine if that's what you desire. If you want a numbers-matching vehicle, re-deck the block and get out your number stamps.

And yes, NASCAR Winston Cup engines are limited to 358 CID, but other NASCAR classes have other limitations.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Later,
Vader
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
All my life I've been searching for something. Something never comes - never leads to nothing...

 

ok i sent the file i have to RMK, Bort and ROC-z....

tpi terror....for ***** and giggles i went to englishtown sat and ran a 14.52@94.2 completly stock 305 5-speed...well a k&n

i got my 60 down to a 2.01.....i drive it like i hate it..and it loves it lol

 

K, thanks!
<edit>
Just read the .doc- very detailed & very interesting...must read for 305 TPI owners who do N O T want to do a swap, but want power
</edit>....

ROC-Z

 

hey f-crazy, could you send me the file too? I'd really like to have a look at it.

 

Nice! I'm currently running at best a 2.1 60ft. And I know this sounds lame, but I'm afraid to powershift it. The WC T5 is on borrowed time.

 

Interesting read. I had the file on my old machine before it decided to go on permanent vacation. Great detail and explination in the document.

Thanks

Robert