Anyone use an APEXi S-AFC?
03-07-2003, 12:17 AM
#1
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Anyone use an APEXi S-AFC?
I was looking at the specs of it, and in essence it 'should' work with our MAF and MAP cars..
It soudns like it should be able to modifiy a signal to the ecm and change some usefull tuning things.
ANyone using one on their thirdgen or vette TPI?
I have a friend who uses one in his SUpra MK4 and it is awesome.. He programs in at what rpms how much fuel to adjust, etc etc...
Anyone.. Anyone... bueller??
It soudns like it should be able to modifiy a signal to the ecm and change some usefull tuning things.
ANyone using one on their thirdgen or vette TPI?
I have a friend who uses one in his SUpra MK4 and it is awesome.. He programs in at what rpms how much fuel to adjust, etc etc...
Anyone.. Anyone... bueller??
03-07-2003, 10:43 AM
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Car: 2009 Pontiac G8 GXP
Engine: LS3
Transmission: 6L80E
Axle/Gears: 3.27
I haven't seen anyone use one, but I owned a 95 Eagle Talon, TSI turbo and looked at one of these too.
It should work, but I don't know...with the ability to burn PROMs easily for our cars, if the SAFC would really be a good idea...I would think that spending the $$$ on a prom burning setup would be a better investment.
I can see the popularity on OBDII systems where you can't burn a chip, not on our cars though.
It should work, but I don't know...with the ability to burn PROMs easily for our cars, if the SAFC would really be a good idea...I would think that spending the $$$ on a prom burning setup would be a better investment.
I can see the popularity on OBDII systems where you can't burn a chip, not on our cars though.
03-07-2003, 01:34 PM
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Hi there,
thanks for the reply.
It is 'easy' to burn chips for our cars IF you know what you are doing, and you have the right equipment.
but at the same time if the S-AFC is working, you can program it on teh fly from inside your cockpit within literally a minute.
You can't do that with burning your own chips, that's for sure.
thanks for the reply.
It is 'easy' to burn chips for our cars IF you know what you are doing, and you have the right equipment.
but at the same time if the S-AFC is working, you can program it on teh fly from inside your cockpit within literally a minute.
You can't do that with burning your own chips, that's for sure.
03-07-2003, 02:00 PM
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Car: 04 GTO
Engine: LS1
Transmission: M12 T56
How does it work? I'm too lazy/busy right now to go researching those things.
Is it like an external injector controller wherein you program it to add X % fuel (as duty cycle) @ Y rpms?
Or is it like a MAF translator type thing?
If it's the latter, i don't think there is any way it would work for a SD car since full MAP is full MAP. Even on MAF cars i thonk you'd be playing a kludge game on a car with any kind of power by trying to fake the signal on it.
I think the holmes got it right though, you are probably just better off burning chips. Sure you can't do it on the fly, but burning chips is probably cheaper, and gives you infinitely more control over what you are doing.
As for 'knowing what you are doing', sounds like no matter what such a box is just a kludge. Adjusting your WOT fuel is no harder than anything you could do with such a box. MAF or MAP there is a table for WOT fueling that tells it how much extra fuel is needed. Exactly the same adjustment you're saying the AFC would do.
I'd rather just burn chips with a portable setup at the track. At best you'll need a chip burning set-up to really complement an AFC anyway i'd think.
Is it like an external injector controller wherein you program it to add X % fuel (as duty cycle) @ Y rpms?
Or is it like a MAF translator type thing?
If it's the latter, i don't think there is any way it would work for a SD car since full MAP is full MAP. Even on MAF cars i thonk you'd be playing a kludge game on a car with any kind of power by trying to fake the signal on it.
I think the holmes got it right though, you are probably just better off burning chips. Sure you can't do it on the fly, but burning chips is probably cheaper, and gives you infinitely more control over what you are doing.
As for 'knowing what you are doing', sounds like no matter what such a box is just a kludge. Adjusting your WOT fuel is no harder than anything you could do with such a box. MAF or MAP there is a table for WOT fueling that tells it how much extra fuel is needed. Exactly the same adjustment you're saying the AFC would do.
I'd rather just burn chips with a portable setup at the track. At best you'll need a chip burning set-up to really complement an AFC anyway i'd think.
03-07-2003, 02:13 PM
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Here is info of the unit..
Monitor Mode: Allows monitoring of up to four channels at one time. Also allows tracing of AVC-R monitor functions.
Setting Mode: Allows user to adjust air/fuel ratio through Hi and Lo Throttle maps. Other features such as throttle percentage settings, RPM point settings, and deceleration air-flow correction are adjustable through the setting menu.
Etc. Mode: The etcetera menu is used to adjust the variables that are required for the S-AFC to properly adjust fuel (i.e. # of cylinders, throttle position sensor type, sensor type, etc.)
Up to four data channels can be selected for monitoring:
Intake Manifold Vacuum/Boost Pressure
Air Flow
Intake Manifold Pressur
Karmann Frequency
Engine RPM
Throttle Position
Air Flow Correction %
Up to four parameters can be monitored in three different ways:
Numerical
Analog Meter
Graph Display
If monitored numerically, pressing the up key allows the user to see a peak hold value for the chosen parameter.
If monitored in analog meter mode, up to two meters can be displayed at one time. Pressing the up key allows the analog meter to hold the peak value. If under 3 or 4 channel mode, only the first two channels will be displayed.
If monitored in graphic display mode, pressing the up key allows the AVC-R to start "sampling" or memorizing data channels.
The memorized graph can then be replayed by pressing the right key. Anytime during replay the right key can be pressed again, and the display will pause.
During replay, the user can press the left key to review any part of the memorized graph. If monitoring one channel, then the last 60 seconds can be replayed.
If two channels are being monitored, then the last 30 seconds can be replayed.
If two channels are being monitored, then the last 20 seconds can be replayed.
If two channels are being monitored, then the last 15 seconds can be replayed.
Up to five parameters can be monitored, but only one at a time:
Air Flow Usage
Intake Manifold Pressure
Karmann Frequency
Throttle Percentage %
Air Flow Correction
The 2D Trace Mode displays one user-selected parameter versus engine RPM. The horizontal scale represents engine RPM and the vertical scale represents the user-selected parameter.
There are three ways to view the 2D Trace:
A simple cursor floats around the screen showing what the user-selected value is.
A 10-point floating trail shows the trend of the user-selected value.
A "Ghost Map" trace shows wherever the cursor has been and will not clear until the user actually clears the screen.
Both the Hi and Lo Throttle setting maps are used for adding or subtracting fuel throughout the fuel curve. This unit takes the input airflow signal and converts the signal into an air volume value. This value is modified through the Air Flow % Correction Setting. The modified output air volume value is then converted back into an airflow signal and sent to the ECU.
The Hi and Lo Throttle setting maps can be adjusted at eight different RPM points that are user adjustable. The range of fuel adjustment is +/- 50%, which can be done in 1% increments. During tuning, the Hi Throttle map should be set first, and Lo Throttle map second. All values between the predetermined RPM points will be interpolated. Only a professional, using engine monitoring equipment should be tuning the S-AFC.
On this screen there are two values, the Lo and the Hi. Each value determines whether the Lo-Thrtl or Hi-Thrtl map will be used by the S-AFC for correction. If the Lo value is at 10% and the Hi value is at 50%, then the settings on the Lo-Throtl map will fall between 0 and 10% throttle position. The settings on the Hi-Throtl map will occur between 50 and 100%. If the throttle is between 10 and 50%, then the S-AFC will interpolate between the two values set on the Lo-Throtl and Hi-Throtl maps.
Generally, on turbo vehicles the TH-Point setting can be left close to the default, or the values left closer together (i.e. Lo-Thrtl: 10 and Hi-Thrtl: 50). On naturally aspirated vehicles where air-flow and horsepower is strictly dependent on throttle angle, these values can be set farther apart (i.e. Lo-Thrtl: 15 and Hi-Thrtl: 80).
This menu allows adjustment of engine RPM points to control fuel. The user can define eight points between 1000 and 9000 rpm in 500-rpm increments. These eight points will appear on the Lo-Thrtl and Hi-Thrtl setting maps.
Some vehicles equipped with hot-wire air flow meters with forced induction units may experience engine stalling when the throttle is let off. This can be caused by a blow off valve releasing into the atmosphere, lack of a blow-off valve, or the use of a very large turbocharger. By using the Deceleration Air Flow Correction function, the S-AFC can prevent the engine from stalling. Please note that this function can ONLY be used on vehicles with hot wire type air flow meters. Please also note that if this value reads **** then this parameter is not functional.
This menu allows the user to select which type of sensor the S-AFC will be correcting. Whatever your sensor type, BOTH the In and Out values should be exactly the same. The sensor calibration should be left as is. DO NOT CHANGE THE CALIBRATION VALUES.
This screen allows the user to set the number of cylinders the engine has, and what type of throttle position sensor the engine uses. Most Japanese vehicles use an ascending type (arrow pointing to the upper right hand corner) throttle position sensor. If you are unsure of what type of throttle position sensor your vehicle has, you can check the Etc. Mode (sensor check) screen. If your throttle sensor voltage goes from 0-5V when going from closed to open, then your throttle position sensor is an ascending type. If your throttle sensor voltage goes from 5-0V when going from closed to open, then your throttle position sensor is a descending type. If your vehicle does not use a throttle position sensor, then use the "**" selection.
This mode allows the setting of the maximum and minimum values to be displayed under the Monitor Mode's graph display mode, analog meter mode, and 2D Trace mode. The user can select the following scales:
Pr: Intake Pressure -760mmHg~0mmHg
-760mmHg~+1.0kg/cm2
-760mmHg~+2.0kg/cm2
Ne: Engine RPM 0rpm~6000rpm
0rpm~7000rpm
0rpm~8000rpm
0rpm~9000rpm
0rpm~10000rpm
Cr: Air Flow % Correction +/- 3%
+/- 6%
+/- 9%
+/- 15%
+/- 30%
This mode will check the voltage of the pressure sensor, air flow meter, or hot wire meter. In-1 is the voltage of the first sensor, while In-2 is the voltage of the second sensor. In-2 will only be used on the Skyline GT-R and will almost never be used in the USA. If your vehicle has a Karmann type sensor, this sensor check screen will not be applicable to your vehicle. This function is to check if all connections have been properly connected after installation. Also if there is improper operation, this screen can be viewed to determine if any connections or sensors are bad.
This mode allows brightness adjustment of the VFD (Vacuum Florescent Display).
This mode will restore all data to factory default settings. All previously saved data will be lost. To initialize data, select YES and push the [NEXT] key. Then turn the ignition switch OFF and then ON again. All data will be initialized.
Monitor Mode: Allows monitoring of up to four channels at one time. Also allows tracing of AVC-R monitor functions.
Setting Mode: Allows user to adjust air/fuel ratio through Hi and Lo Throttle maps. Other features such as throttle percentage settings, RPM point settings, and deceleration air-flow correction are adjustable through the setting menu.
Etc. Mode: The etcetera menu is used to adjust the variables that are required for the S-AFC to properly adjust fuel (i.e. # of cylinders, throttle position sensor type, sensor type, etc.)
Up to four data channels can be selected for monitoring:
Intake Manifold Vacuum/Boost Pressure
Air Flow
Intake Manifold Pressur
Karmann Frequency
Engine RPM
Throttle Position
Air Flow Correction %
Up to four parameters can be monitored in three different ways:
Numerical
Analog Meter
Graph Display
If monitored numerically, pressing the up key allows the user to see a peak hold value for the chosen parameter.
If monitored in analog meter mode, up to two meters can be displayed at one time. Pressing the up key allows the analog meter to hold the peak value. If under 3 or 4 channel mode, only the first two channels will be displayed.
If monitored in graphic display mode, pressing the up key allows the AVC-R to start "sampling" or memorizing data channels.
The memorized graph can then be replayed by pressing the right key. Anytime during replay the right key can be pressed again, and the display will pause.
During replay, the user can press the left key to review any part of the memorized graph. If monitoring one channel, then the last 60 seconds can be replayed.
If two channels are being monitored, then the last 30 seconds can be replayed.
If two channels are being monitored, then the last 20 seconds can be replayed.
If two channels are being monitored, then the last 15 seconds can be replayed.
Up to five parameters can be monitored, but only one at a time:
Air Flow Usage
Intake Manifold Pressure
Karmann Frequency
Throttle Percentage %
Air Flow Correction
The 2D Trace Mode displays one user-selected parameter versus engine RPM. The horizontal scale represents engine RPM and the vertical scale represents the user-selected parameter.
There are three ways to view the 2D Trace:
A simple cursor floats around the screen showing what the user-selected value is.
A 10-point floating trail shows the trend of the user-selected value.
A "Ghost Map" trace shows wherever the cursor has been and will not clear until the user actually clears the screen.
Both the Hi and Lo Throttle setting maps are used for adding or subtracting fuel throughout the fuel curve. This unit takes the input airflow signal and converts the signal into an air volume value. This value is modified through the Air Flow % Correction Setting. The modified output air volume value is then converted back into an airflow signal and sent to the ECU.
The Hi and Lo Throttle setting maps can be adjusted at eight different RPM points that are user adjustable. The range of fuel adjustment is +/- 50%, which can be done in 1% increments. During tuning, the Hi Throttle map should be set first, and Lo Throttle map second. All values between the predetermined RPM points will be interpolated. Only a professional, using engine monitoring equipment should be tuning the S-AFC.
On this screen there are two values, the Lo and the Hi. Each value determines whether the Lo-Thrtl or Hi-Thrtl map will be used by the S-AFC for correction. If the Lo value is at 10% and the Hi value is at 50%, then the settings on the Lo-Throtl map will fall between 0 and 10% throttle position. The settings on the Hi-Throtl map will occur between 50 and 100%. If the throttle is between 10 and 50%, then the S-AFC will interpolate between the two values set on the Lo-Throtl and Hi-Throtl maps.
Generally, on turbo vehicles the TH-Point setting can be left close to the default, or the values left closer together (i.e. Lo-Thrtl: 10 and Hi-Thrtl: 50). On naturally aspirated vehicles where air-flow and horsepower is strictly dependent on throttle angle, these values can be set farther apart (i.e. Lo-Thrtl: 15 and Hi-Thrtl: 80).
This menu allows adjustment of engine RPM points to control fuel. The user can define eight points between 1000 and 9000 rpm in 500-rpm increments. These eight points will appear on the Lo-Thrtl and Hi-Thrtl setting maps.
Some vehicles equipped with hot-wire air flow meters with forced induction units may experience engine stalling when the throttle is let off. This can be caused by a blow off valve releasing into the atmosphere, lack of a blow-off valve, or the use of a very large turbocharger. By using the Deceleration Air Flow Correction function, the S-AFC can prevent the engine from stalling. Please note that this function can ONLY be used on vehicles with hot wire type air flow meters. Please also note that if this value reads **** then this parameter is not functional.
This menu allows the user to select which type of sensor the S-AFC will be correcting. Whatever your sensor type, BOTH the In and Out values should be exactly the same. The sensor calibration should be left as is. DO NOT CHANGE THE CALIBRATION VALUES.
This screen allows the user to set the number of cylinders the engine has, and what type of throttle position sensor the engine uses. Most Japanese vehicles use an ascending type (arrow pointing to the upper right hand corner) throttle position sensor. If you are unsure of what type of throttle position sensor your vehicle has, you can check the Etc. Mode (sensor check) screen. If your throttle sensor voltage goes from 0-5V when going from closed to open, then your throttle position sensor is an ascending type. If your throttle sensor voltage goes from 5-0V when going from closed to open, then your throttle position sensor is a descending type. If your vehicle does not use a throttle position sensor, then use the "**" selection.
This mode allows the setting of the maximum and minimum values to be displayed under the Monitor Mode's graph display mode, analog meter mode, and 2D Trace mode. The user can select the following scales:
Pr: Intake Pressure -760mmHg~0mmHg
-760mmHg~+1.0kg/cm2
-760mmHg~+2.0kg/cm2
Ne: Engine RPM 0rpm~6000rpm
0rpm~7000rpm
0rpm~8000rpm
0rpm~9000rpm
0rpm~10000rpm
Cr: Air Flow % Correction +/- 3%
+/- 6%
+/- 9%
+/- 15%
+/- 30%
This mode will check the voltage of the pressure sensor, air flow meter, or hot wire meter. In-1 is the voltage of the first sensor, while In-2 is the voltage of the second sensor. In-2 will only be used on the Skyline GT-R and will almost never be used in the USA. If your vehicle has a Karmann type sensor, this sensor check screen will not be applicable to your vehicle. This function is to check if all connections have been properly connected after installation. Also if there is improper operation, this screen can be viewed to determine if any connections or sensors are bad.
This mode allows brightness adjustment of the VFD (Vacuum Florescent Display).
This mode will restore all data to factory default settings. All previously saved data will be lost. To initialize data, select YES and push the [NEXT] key. Then turn the ignition switch OFF and then ON again. All data will be initialized.
03-07-2003, 06:59 PM
#6
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Car: 2009 Pontiac G8 GXP
Engine: LS3
Transmission: 6L80E
Axle/Gears: 3.27
Thanks Ed for the vote of confidence...I am now "The Holmes"
Dude...try to summarize and not post the whole Apexi website next time...that is why I got OUT of school
Anyway...According to how it works on the DSM cars (Eclipse/Talon), it modifies the MAF signal...you need a VPC setup on these cars (MAP type) so do more tuning to beat the MAF limitation.
I still stay learn to burn (chips)...
HTH,
Dude...try to summarize and not post the whole Apexi website next time...that is why I got OUT of school
Anyway...According to how it works on the DSM cars (Eclipse/Talon), it modifies the MAF signal...you need a VPC setup on these cars (MAP type) so do more tuning to beat the MAF limitation.
I still stay learn to burn (chips)...
HTH,
03-07-2003, 07:18 PM
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Car: 04 GTO
Engine: LS1
Transmission: M12 T56
OK, just like i thought. It's a kludge box for tricking the ECM into adding more fuel. For a SD car, the equivalent table would look like this, except i'm sure fixing the chip will be a more consistent answer.
Burning chips is easy as pie. Kludge boxes are for cars that you can't do **** like this so easy.
Burning chips is easy as pie. Kludge boxes are for cars that you can't do **** like this so easy.
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03-07-2003, 07:24 PM
#8
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Car: 04 GTO
Engine: LS1
Transmission: M12 T56
BTW again, yes, you can do rough WOT tuning without ever getting into the details of BLMs and closed loop tuning. Simple as saying more fuel at 3k, less at 5k, etc.
I really have no idea why people act like it is so difficult. It couldn't be more straight forward
I really have no idea why people act like it is so difficult. It couldn't be more straight forward
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