Hey guys,

Problem 1

Ive had a code 36 for ages now, it started when my friend got my fans working through a switch but he cut some wires down where the air filter goes i do believe, but there have been some messy wires down there since i got the car that ive never looked into, mainly because i didnt know what i was doing. I bought a voltmeter the other week and i tested some of them and one has 12v going through it.



The wire in question is on the connector thats resting on the overflow bottle, its pretty dirty but i think its black with a red stripe. If its nothing to do with the wires could it be the relays that are down there ? they are held together with cable ties so somebody has been essing on with them at some point. is one of them my MAF burnoff relay ?

Problem 2

My car is running really flat, it doesnt feel fast at all and also feels a bit rough, no smoothness in the engine. Sometimes when i accelerate from lights etc it will hesitate then all of a sudden kick in, it feels like something is sticking ??

Ive also had a ticking noise coming from around the distributor area which ive been told was the tappetts, ive poured lifter cleaner in and drove the car but it still sounds the same, ive made a vid of that below

http://mysite.orange.co.uk/k2000special/tpistartup.wmv

 

WOW, someone has really hacked that up bud. Dang. That is definitely a relay sitting down there, but I'm not 100% on which it is. I do believe a code 36 is a MAF sensor problem...so that could be your MAF power, or Burnoff relay sitting there. I want to know how it ended up all the way on the opposite side of the car. It should be mounted on the drivers side firewall with the fuel pump relay, and MAF, or Power relay. At the rate that wiring is going, Id say find a new good condition used harness, and just be done with it. Search the board real good, and you will find which relay that is exactly by the wires going to it. I THINK it is the burnoff relay myself. Get some pictures together too on how the engine harness is supposed to be in the engine bay. Trust me and you will thank me later.

 

I'm almost certain my brother's 87 had a cooling fan relay in that area. Probably mounted on the rad support just behind the headlight. His was also hacked up, but we salvaged the connector, isntalled a new relay and it worked again.

That "flat" cvonnector with the circle around it in the picture I'm not sure.

 

bugger. according too my book a code 36 is the MAF burnoff circuit. there are 2 relays in that picture, the other one is just out of view. I think there is a mounting point behind the headlight, i tried too screw one of the relays up there but i didnt have the right size screw.

but as i say they are both held together with cable ties now so somebody has been messing on with them at some point.

How would i go about replacing the whole wiring harness ? it sounds like a really daunting task, im not very electrically minded. Would wires from all over the car have too be pulled or is it just whats inside the engine bay, unplug all the connectors sort of thing and plug the new stuff in ??

 

The wiring harness is not bad at all. just disconect it from the ecm under the dash on the passanger side, pop out the rubber grommet holding it in the right front fender, behind the splash gaurd then work it out through the top of the engine bay . Once you get the ecm connectors up out the rest is simple. Disconnect ALL the sensors, distributor, etc. You will know what ones you need to disconnect as you go. Just be patient and you will be fine. Do not touch anything related to the headlights, or starting system. All you are focusing on is the engine harness.

 

Ive got 3 relays up on the firewall, two are unmarked and the one in the middle says MAF power in red letters, is that right ?

so now ive got these two relays down where the airfilter is, i tested one of them out of curiosity and there is 12v going too the connector on one relay, i didnt open the other one because it had some sort of glue around and a cable tie. they both run off the same wire, it all looks connected somehow, very badly, and that black earth wire going off too the fender is coming from them too.

Do you think buying a new MAF burnoff relay will cure the problem ? as far as i can tell none of the cut wires go too the MAF sensor, im pretty sure they were just for the electric fans.

it looks kinda expensive to get the harness sorted, the only one i could find was from tpiparts.net, the reconditioning service.

 

[QUOTE=PneumaticTire;3114603] I want to know how it ended up all the way on the opposite side of the car. It should be mounted on the drivers side firewall with the fuel pump relay, and MAF, or Power relay. QUOTE] Ummm, that's just the way they're wired in a Pontiac. In their strive to always be slightly different from Chevy, they switched the locations of some of the electrical components, including putting the battery on the driver's side instead of the passenger side. Back in the 60's and 70's, they'd also put the fuel lines on the opposite side as well as the speedo cable drive on the tranny compared to Chevy. The plug he circled looks like the 5 pin fan connector plug on the Pontiac harness IIRC.

 

Both of these relays are spliced together, running from the same 12v wire i do believe. If one is my MAF burnoff relay, any ideas as to what the other is ? i get the idea im only supposed to have one relay down there

all the wires from the connector and the 2 relays then disappear up into one of the black tubes towards my AC canister along with the separate wires coming from the MAF sensor.

 

The connector you are showing in the left on that first pic is for a cooling fan relay. You should have two in that area, one for each cooling fan. This is on a Pontiac, correct? If so, something doesn't look right. The connector resting on the reservoir plugs is part of the fan harness which plugs into the engine harness. However, only the Camaros had a separate dual fan harness. All the Firebird harnesses I have seen have had the fans integrated into the engine harness.

Assuming this is a Camaro harness with the separate dual fan harness, one cooling fan relay is part of this fan harness, and the second relay is part of the main engine harness.

The three relays on your firewall will be MAF power, MAF burnoff, and your fuel pump. The MAF burnoff relay has two orange wires, one black, one blue.

I can't tell what the red circle on the right side is showing. The black wire with a red stripe will run to one of the cooling fans. There should be one black/red wire for each fan.

 

Definitely listen to 92 Blue's advice. If anyone knows what's correct on the factory harnesses, he does! I've got an extra 89 harness from a GTA, and the fan wiring is integrated into the main harness. My 89 Camaro harness has a separate harness for the dual fans that plugs into the main engine harness on the passenger side towards the front.

 

Something to consider is if that burn-off relay circuit has any of the blue splicing connectors in the circuit to remove then and solder/heat shrink. That type of connector is a real no-no, they're not a high quality splice and can go intermittent.

 

looks like its been seriously messed with then, my car is an 87 Trans Am GTA. Im planning on working on the car tomorrow if the weather holds up so i will investigate further into the mess !

thanks for all the replies guys.

Scott

 

well this mystery wire does something, with power going to it turns the ignition on ? or sounds like it does, you hear the whine of the fuel pump presurise and an electronic whir from up by the drivers side firewall. Here is a better picture of it.



the green wire thats been cut next too it, i dunno what thats for either.

Also, i had a look at the relays and not one of them has a blue wire on it. While we are on the subject of mystery wires etc, this connector lies underneath the cruise control near the battery, its not even plugged into anything, theres nothing near it to plug it in either, any ideas on that one ?

 

hey 92blue, any idea about his mystery wire that seems to turn my ignition on when its got 12v ?

And as for my code 36 MAF burnoff problem, thats got nothing to do with that connector and the two relays down near the airfilter ? they are for the fans ? if my fans are just on a switch now can i remove all the rubbish down there without it interfearing with anything or will that set off more trouble codes but cutting it out?

 

You ought to send a PM to either Trickster, one of the moderators of the electronics board, or Vader. Both of these members have tons of wiring diagrams they can email to you on thirdgens. If I were in your position, before I started cutting and removing any wires, I'd want to have the proper wiring diagrams available so I could figure exactly what each wire is for, and what purpose it serves. I hate reading wiring diagrams, but it's the only sure way to figure everything out before you end up making it worse than it already is. So I'd either pursue that avenue, or if I didn't want to fool with diagrams, just get another 87 GTA engine harness from someone that's parting one of them out.

 

That black wire with a red stripe should power your cooling fan when you supply 12v to it. It should have no relation to your fuel pump, or any other component on the car for that matter. The green wire is the signal wire which runs to the fan relay. When that green wire is grounded, it will energize the fan relay, and 12v will be supplied to the black wire with a red stripe, kicking the fan on. Same concept applies to each cooling fan relay.

Considering how someone has been tinkering with the wiring on the car before, I can't say if it hasn't been modified to do something else. However, the above is correct assuming everything is wired as it was from factory.

Where did you look for the burnoff relay? It should be mounted on the driver side firewall. If you need help identifying connectors (fan, fuel, maf power, maf burnoff relays, etc..), take a look at the connector pictures on our online catalog at http://tpiparts.net/harness_repair_connectors?b=1

 

thanks 92. Well when i power that wire with the car turned off, it sounds like its definatly turning the ignition on, i will try and get a video up if i cant trace where its going too.

My fan wires have been re-routed straight too a switch on the dash so it definatly has nothing to do with those.

I have 3 relays on the firewall, i think its the middle one that is MAF power, says so in orange lettering on the relay, but the other two either side are not labelled.

Its tempting too fork out the cash and send my harness to you guys to get it refurbed !! but then again if things have been changed on my car is their any guarantee that when i plug a new harness my car will work as it should ?

 

Take a look at our wiring connectors in our catalog, and try to id which relay is which by looking at the pictures (wire coloring to be more specific).

I'm not sure just how much has been changed on your harness, but reverting it back to stock fan functionality isn't a problem. The reconditioning service we offer includes a reasonable amount of repairs figured into the cost. If the repairs are excessive, it may total more than the base price shown in our catalog.

We can gaurantee that our work will be free from defects in materials and workmanship. However, we can't gaurantee everything will work exactly as it should right after installing your harness because there is much more involved in any circuit or system than just wiring. We have had customers in the past who have left things disconnected, improperly installed their harness, or had some other problem with their vehicle. To date, we are proud to say that we have not had any problems with our harness work.

 

i know this is an old thread by me but ive just started taking things out of my engine bay to repainted it, ive also found a new engine harness from a guy on here, just waiting to hear what the postage will be

I took my battery out and water bottles and i got a much better view of these odd looking connectors



The big connector with the grey end is coming out of the large wire which goes to the cruise control ?? any ideas, looks like something should plug into it but theres nothing near it

the smaller black one with the 2 orange wires, one of which is cut just disappears into a different wire, i just wanted to know why its been cut

 

Hey, good to hear you rounded up another harness to help straighten out your wiring dilemna! I'm not sure what the large, gray connector is. It resembles the plug for dual cooling fans, or maybe it's for the headlight motors, or the cruise? Who knows without a wiring diagram. If you had a diagram, you could figure it out by the colors of the wires. The connector with the two orange wires is either the ecm fuse, or the fuel pump fuse. Either way, it's a power distribution fuse, so they probably cut it and connected it to something so they could "hot wire" it. My guess would be they hot wired either the fans or the fuel pump.