Ok I am planning on building up my 305, im going to get a 350 so please dont comment about the 350's. My budget is about $1500, give or take, Im keeping this as my daily driver so I do not plan on getting new heads. This is what I have planned so far:

Cam:
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/productitem_10001_10002_756547_-1_313038
Throttle Body:
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_750758_-1_11175
Airfoil:
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_752203_-1_11175
Adjustable Fuel Regulator:
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_761135_-1_11175

Out of these rocker arms which is best?
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CCA%2D1416%2D16&view=1&N=700+150+4294908247

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CSP%2DS1002&autoview=sku

Headers are another Thing I plan to add but dont know what type to get? I still need the emissions. Any insite would be great Thanks!

 

Headers would be better money spent than the TB or airfoil, certainly while still a 305. Hooker 2055HKR - hard to go wrong. If you have dual cats, they can be made to work - just cut off the "Y" of the y-pipe and hook the pipes to the cats. (That's probably not what you meant by "dual exhaust", though).

The Comp rockers are adequate and a lot less money. Nothing wrong with the HS's, just overkill. Any particular reason for 1.6's? Without head work, no particular reason for them, and you might overdo it for your valve lift capability.

Didn't see valve springs in the list. A must with an upgrade cam. Get retainers, too, to eliminate those heavy exhaust rotators.

 

a cold air intake and an underdrive pulley kit wouldn't hurt.

 

yeah i wouldnt bother with the underdrive pulleys not worth the money
why bother with a coldair if you have tpi...
and why pick a camshaft that is going to be held back by the stock tpi?

take a look at this punny cam for your tpi setup
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...4&autoview=sku

 

yeah by duel Im pretty sure I just have the y pipe going the cat then the to the muffler then out two pipes.

I checked those headers and it says for apps 1986+ mine is an 85..still work?

1.6? Not really sure, i think someone reccomended them, not too mechanically inclined if theres something else that would better suit my application please let me know.

springs and valves were also reccomended along with the rockers, any links would be great!

I plan on making the cold air intake to save some money.

So would you reccomend not getting the TB?

Im just trying to get the most power for my money while not killing the MPG

Thanks Guys!
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Why not give some ideas if your just gonna shoot down everyone elses?

 

1.5:1 ratio rockers are stock, and are what typically are assumed when cam valve lift is quoted. That cam with 1.6:1 rockers would open the exhaust 0.484", which is on the edge of what typical stock heads can handle.

New valves wouldn't be of much value.

The throttle body really isn't needed. Aftermarket runners (~$350) would be better and a higher priority than the TB (even with a 350). They would help the cam do its thing better, wouldn't have a significant effect on MPG.

 

So what size rockers would you reccomend?

That cam that i had in the link, is that geared more twoards power, torque or a mixture of both?

Could you get me some links for the valve springs and retainers?

Thanks bro I appreciate it!

 

it just seems crappy even compared to lunati's "BRAND C" cam that it was compared against didnt make much power in your RPM range which i would assume to be idle-4800 tops maybe even lower than that with TPI look at the cam i posted it is a little better and specifically geared to the tpi

 

Okay Thanks! The other cam was just something someone else reccomended, so that is geared twoards power?

Lets say I get:
headers
cam
rockers
runners
and the valve springs / retainers
w/ high flow exhaust

stock engine 215hp, would i be in the high 200's in hp?
Thanks

 

i dont know about high 200s but i would bet atleast 250-260 but could be more if you are tunning your own chips...

 

So adding all that would only produce 30 horsepower? Damn!

 

well yes...(35-45)but that is no small feat and like i said it could be more... but those are only minor upgrades. and it is what it is (305) so you shouldnt really expect 300hp out of it with stock compression and stock heads without some serious work to them and new pistons and a TPI without tunning

but that may feel like a real kick in the pants as the motor is getting up there in years...although a rering, bearing, gaskets, and new pistons can be done pretty cheap...

 

I dont think the headers you said will fit my year will these ?http://store.summitracing.com/partde...=1#Application

 

kick in the pants as in waste of money? The only reason why im keeping the engine is that it is not the original and only has about 70,000 miles on it. The only way to higher the compression is new heads correct? I appreciate all the info

 

It's hard to justify replacing a motor with low miles, and/or runs fine. Lets not push the guy into tossing a good shortblock.
We're just trying to push you into only using parts that can be reused on your inevitable 350.

I wouldn't get too worked up about rockers. There's lots of them in magazine ads, but they aren't a huge HP/$ addon after all. Some cheesy summit roller tip rockers would do fine, for about $90 or something. Or save the cash for now. The cam is a very good idea, along with the valve springs. Is the '85 TPI system ok with that cam? I think it has a 110LSA right? (I know it's a small cam, but i'm just throwing this opinion out there..)

headers are a fantastic idea.
Subframe connectors are too. They won't make you go any faster from 0-60, but they'll make you grin more going around corners.

 

no not waste of money if you want to do this to a 305 that is up to you i mean the butt-dyno will be worth it... for a while that its

well you can raise compression several ways... lower cc heads flat top pistons cam timing

 

What do you mean by 110LSA? Dont really know what the numbers mean.

Ill take your advise and not spend the 200 on the rockers and go with the cheap ones... I was planning on adding the SFC's to better the handling and possibly sway bars...Ill have to wait to summer to find a better job, this 7.75/hr isnt cutting it!

Oh, and are most of the parts that im considering compatible to the 350?

Thanks guys!

 

yes they are but to get the most out of your 350 in the future that is if you dont want to burn proms all the time i wouldnt look to heavly into TPI upgrades more general engine things as you will probably want to go carb

 

110 LSA is the lobe seperation angle. You can get "computer compatible" grinds more friendly to FI, which have a 114LSA or so. Lower LSA isn't liked by FI much.
A small cam probably has less effect that way, so i'm not sure where you sit, i'm not very wise with FI. Just making sure you considered it, and it looks like you haven't so...
I think your TPI is mass airflow based, so it's less sensitive. But ask a TPI guru first.

 

To be honest i dunno what the hell that means.

But heres something I mgith consider, a used 350tpi from an 86 camaro for 600, do i buy that and swap it then use the rest for parts?

For the $1500 which will have more power? the 305 built w/ those parts or a 350 less built?

Thanks

 

THE 350 ALL THE WAY

 

Yeah, any clue on how bad the gas mileage will be? Lets say I have $500 left over to add to the 350 what do I do?

Oh, and what parts can i switch over to the 350 so i dont need to buy them?

Once Again Thanks for the help!

 

350 all the way.
If you're getting a 350 complete then what do you mean what parts can you switch over? Pretty much everything, but you haven't bought anything yet so...
Buy the complete 350, and use it complete. Use the extra cash to get it up and running right. If there's anything left (don't be too optimistic), get the headers.

 

I've got the 2055HKR's on my '82.

They'll fit the engine and they'll fit the chassis. They just don't bolt directly to your stock cat, that's all. Modify the cat attachment (or get a cat for the '86-'90 TPI single cat application like CTO-9118) and you'll be fine.

You don't want those 2138HKR's. Unless you never go bigger than a 305.

 

Uhhh,,, I've never installed pulleys that they didn't pick up a car .15 seconds

Homemade ram air with K&Ns are typically worth .2 seconds on even a bone stock 305 TPI

The difference in the cam he picked and you suggested should be within the variance of the dyno,,, meaning with similar grind technology,,, he would see very little if any power difference between the two. The slight increase of lift with the Lunati cam vs the 2 extra degree on the exhaust duration with the Comp - either one would be fine.

Celticsfan,, you need to post this question on the TPI board or ask the moderates to move it. No disrespect to those here,,, you'll just get more responces since many of the TPI guys only visit the TPI board.

The cam you picked would be great for the stock heads on a 305 with matching valve springs. It is a fast ramp cam on a 112 spread,, meaning it would give you good vacuum and be very computer compatible.

As others have said, don't waste the money on a TB. A $30 airfoil on the stock T/B would be sufficient. Port your plenum if you haven't already, that and the AFPR boosted a couple pounds makes for a nice ET improvement. If you pull the base intake, grind off the lip right there at the runner entrance (you'll see what I mean if you pull the runners) and smooth out the roughness of the casting - that's about all you need to do for a 305.

I used to own a speed shop and we quit carrying the cheap roller tipped rockers due to so many failures. The only roller tip we continued to carry was the Comp roller tips,,, and I usually suggested a full roller for the extra money. On a flat tappet cam going in a TPI car, the Crane heat treated 1.6 long slot rockers are what I typically suggest.

For headers, go with the Hooker 2055HKR headers as five7kid suggested,, as he said,,, they'll be fine for the 305 and work well if you go with the 350.

If you go 350, same as above applies (if money is tight,,, skip the pulleys for now), but you'll need a little larger cam in the 215/225 range on a 112 should give you little if any "tuning" problems - go with springs that will cover the increased lift from the 1.6 rockers. With the 350,, ported SLPs or large tube AS&M runners would give a nice improvement after the swap.

 

I think I am going to go with the 350...any clue what these push stock 86tpi?

You said SLP runners like these:
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...&autoview=sku?
Then port them? Port as in meaning making the opening bigger? The plenium is part of the intake correct? Im still new at this .

Oh anyone know of what the average cost of a swap is?

Thanks

 

I've heard 50 of the 350s made there way into 1986 Zs,,, it may be true, but I don't think anyone on this board has actually seen one. If it is so,,, it is an extremely rare and you need to get the car it came out of also. Chances are it is either,,, not a 350TPI or a previous owner installed a 350 and there is no telling how "good" or how "bad" the 350 is. Might be a performance replacement,, or could be the old taget master 350 with 76cc 305 heads on one side and 58cc 305 heads on the other - don't laugh,,, I've seen it - unbelievable what people do when they're unloading a car.

You sound a little new to hot-rodding,,, so it might not hurt to have someone you absolutely trust that knows what they're doing to look at the engine with you. Unless it is a running engine that you know to be "good" (you know who owns it and can do a leak-down compression test if in the car),,,, you'll need to drop the oil pan,,, pull a couple main and rod caps and pull the heads to see what you're getting into with the 350. If it's not running and you can't do a leak down test,,, I'd say tearing into it is a must,, which means if it all checks out,, I'd still take it all the way down, run a hone through it and put new rings and bearings in it along with the gaskets needed. Consider it insurance.

As far as the swap goes,, there is most always things that will cost you over and beyond what you think. Pull the engine,,, see motor mounts are dead,,, bust a connector or two that's turned brittle from age and heat (they're not cheap), mess up a sparkplug wire, welding the exhuast for the new headers you drop in with the engine. Goes on and on,,, hard to say. Once you have the engine reaady to go in and know how much the exhaust shop was going to charge to get the headers welded to the existing exhaust,, I'd say have about $200 left in the bank account to take care of "other" costs - just make sure you bag and box the MAF sensor when you take it off and get it out of harms way - that's a big hit if something happens to it.

SLPs are not what I consider an out of the box bolt on. They are great as long as you can grind on the intake and make it larger than the opening of the runner,,, clean up the openings a little,,, use a large gasket set (MRG-146 because the ones that come with the SLPs over hang the ports - go figure),,, and open up the plenum to match the runners. As an extra bonus the dividers on the inside can be ground on to reduce the effective length of the runner for a little extra top end. If you don't want to grind, the Arizona Speed and Marine runners are $400 but they're good to go out of the box.

 

Yeah your right im a new, very new only 17 and looking for more power. I know a few people who are mechanics so they should be able to look at it for me. From what they told me the engine runs strong and everything. When the snow clears ill go check it out and get some pics. You said id hjave about $200 give or take, are you saying around $1300 for the swap or does that include the $600 for the engine?

Thanks I appreciate it!

 

doing a 305 to 350 swap, you'll want to read through this and ensure you get everything required, or be preaped to buy the items which may be missing;

http://tpiparts.net/305_tpi_to_350_tpi_conversion

 

I checked that out and the engine is complete so everything in that list should be included.

 

so let me get this straight SS you want him to go with a cam that is $75 more than the comp cam i recomended for what you say to be NO DIFFERENCE? but then you want him to WASTE EVEN MORE on a set of pulleys for what .15 of a sec? your out of your mind maybe in the world of drag racing that counts for something but not in the real world same thing with the cold air even if you do make it your self still is all that work and fabrication really worth .2 sec on the street? probably not

 

I don't think you read that list very well. I doubt the last three things would be included; ESC Module, ECM, and Prom.

I suggest you read it again, thoroughly.

 

I just re read it and the engine is still in the car so it should have the ecm and ESC, another prom will have to burned to fit my application correct?

 

My bad,, didn't notice the $75 difference. You didn't mention money before and based on your comments it looked like the recommendation you made was power related. If the Comp you recommended is that much cheaper,,, I'd go with the Comp also. There would be little to no power difference,,,

Steel crank reduction pulley is $60,, a new belt that he may or may not need already is around $15. That's fairly cheap for .15 seconds or so. I don't consider that a waste,, pretty cheap as for as mods for TPI goes.

I don't know what world you're from, but cold air is free horsepower whether your racing or on the street. The "probably not" sounds like you have no experience with making a cold air / ram induction system for a TPI car. Effective, cheap and very little work involved. A homemade cold air induction system costs about $15 from ducting you can get from home depot - takes me about 40 minutes to cut the air box, trim the ducting, and secure it but I've done a few.

 

Could you post some pics of your work?
Thanks

 

If it's in the car and you can do a leak-down compression check, that'll be helpful. See if they know what kind of 350 was put in the car. If you just take the engine out of one car and into the other and you can make the deal of $600 to include any and all parts you might need from the donor car to complete the swap,, you probably won't need the $200 cushion (over and above what you think it'll cost).

 

OK ill look into that, yeah I was thinking they would include everything i needed, how much do you believe a shop would charge for the labor to do the swap

 

What kind of power do you want to make? what is your goal? You can make 300hp out of a 305 pretty easy with a mild cam, headers, stock ported TPI, and aluminum L98 heads. the 'vette heads will bolt right on. You won't need any tuning either, mine ran great without it. Do a search for my screen name and look at what I did. Also search for TunedPort335, mw66nova, TimBurgess, Willie, and even ask Brisk about his combo. If you want hight 13s and 300hp, it can be done easily with your 305.

 

It just seems more cost effective to go with the 350 and it seems like it can get alot of power easier and will be more upgradable down the road.

 

spitotrs305,
do you even have any of these products that you keep dissing on your car? this kid is looking for some cheap power and your not helping. there are many cheap or free things that he can do that gives more power and better gas mileage such as: remove the smog pump, light weight drive shaft, bypasses the coolant line that goes thru the tb, fuel pressure regulator, removing the screens on the maf sensor.

 

Well people may have convinced you of that but that is not always true. I can promise you that if you compare a solid 305 in good condition with a good cam and stock heads, to a stock 350 with a cam and stock heads, the 305 will run right with the 350. To be able to soundly beat a good running 305, the 350 will need port work or new heads too. I guarentee if you just drop in a stock 350 it will be no faster than a good 305 would be. This is the choice I had to make and I decided to put heads and cam on my 305. I bolted the aluminum heads on my 305 for $700. A stock headed 350 will be doing good to make 250hp, and you can do that pretty easily with a 305 too. Again if your goal is 450hp go with a 350, if your goal is 300hp you will be money ahead to mod your 305.

 

I completly agree with 1meanZ. I think more fun having fast 305 than a stock 350. If they made 305's with ls1 or ls6 technology you would see stock 300hp 305's!

 

I thought the same thing about having fast 305, but it just seems you get more for your money, ill be keeping this car for a long time so i figure i myswell(sp?) swap now. Im saving now so hopefully by summer ill have enough to do the swap with like mayb 1000 to do some mods. Isnt it true that 305 heads have better compression and that they can be swapped over?

 

YEAH, BUT ISN'T BEING DIFFERENT WORTH THE COST? THEY HAVE BETTER COMPRESSION BUT WORST FLOW. THE HEADS AND THE CAM ARE BIG REASON FOR THE LOSS OF POWER ON A 305.

 

check this out and you'll see what you can easily do with a 305

http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/325_h...chevrolet.html

 

I guess, but not for me, Im a guy with a small budget and want the best bang for my buck. Only 17 now so im sure ill be dumping in more money down the road.

I ve read that article many times, but for 1 mine isnt carbed and theres no links/prices for any of that.

 

if you want to make cheap and power you need a carb. tpi parts aren't cheap.

 

well the 350 im considering is TPI, and theres still no prices, and if i went carb, that alone would cost what 4-500?

 

well it's all up to you. my advice would be, keep the engine you have, add a few bolt-ons to get you by. save up to build a 350 (on the side) then do the engine swap. because you only want to swap it once, so if your gonna do it, you better do right the first time.

 

yeah, ill keep it stock for now save my money its got enough power for now