not that easily because money is hard to come by but listen to what I'm trying to say. What makes the Vette Z06 so great? Factory guaranteed reliability of 385h.p. mid 12 sec e.t. of everyday driving. Now how would one transfer this balance of power, reliability and straight out driving enthusiasm? Take a page from how GM builds motors. Heres a buildup that will guarantee 430h.p. of n.a. power from the old 350sbc.

ZZ-4 Crate short block
Lt-4 Hot cam
GM Fastburn heads
All GM off the shelf parts so far
Finally here comes the bad news
Tpis Mini-Ram III/Fast burn intake

Simple formula= ZZ430 with Miniram (LT-1 Intake really)430 horses no need for more.

Slap some 1 3/4 Hooker super comp headers and whoops I think we just dusted another Z06 I'm I right or wrong?

 

I still think the Z06 would pound us.. We'd have traction problems in addition to the added weight.. though im not too knowledgable on how the vettes handle their meat... But i would be interested in learning more here... I'm currently trying to decide what kind of engine to drop into my '89 Gta.. What do you think of a stroked ZZ4?

 

there's a couple of oversimplifications that should be addressed:

- until someone actually builds this dream motor, including adapting it to work with EFI, there is no way guarantee it would make ZZ430 levels of horsepower

- skip several steps and order the Fast Burn 385 from Jim Pace. then swap out the major items, the camshaft and rocker arms, that seperate a Fast Burn 385(which uses a ZZ4 camshaft and rocker arms) from a ZZ430(which uses the LT4 "HOT" valvetrain components).

-though externally they appear similiar, the MiniRam is not a "LT-1 Intake really". they have different flow characteristics and were designed for substantially different engines. the most important difference being the fact that the LT-1 intake is designed for a reverse-cooled engine.

- the thought of the money involved would cool most people's enthusiasm for this type of project. the motor alone would cost over $4000 to assemble. add in the cost of efi and the drivetrain upgrades necessary to handle that much torque and the price could easily double. short of winning some money in a Lotto, I'd be put-off.

-GMPP is not going to offer the same reliability for a "home-built" hot rod as Chevrolet offers for $60,000 production vehicle.

-"Take a page from how GM builds motors". Huh?!?! Which page? The motors in GM production vehicles have to meet stringent standards in terms of reliability, emission, fuel economy, drivability, NVH and other factors. GMPP crates are not saddled with the same standards, nor are they presented as such.

When it comes to straight line traction, the Corvette's independent rear is at a distinct disadvantage to solid-axle rearend. Obviously, the Corvette's capabilities have improved(and continue to do so) but, there are enough aftermarket parts available(From Spohn, GlobalWest, Hotchkiss, and others) to allow a thirdgen to exceed the Z06's acceleration capabilities. Doing so however it could easily add several thousand dollars more to what is already becoming an expensive project.

there's enough people on this board who have more power and faster acceleration than a Z06, and I assume have done it for less money than this project seems to entail(Traxion and Tom Keliher are two I can think of off-hand). If your goal is only to beet a Z06 across an intersection, I have to think there is a better way.

Lastly, no matter how much power you have, or how fast you are - there is always a need for more . "Speed costs, how fast can you afford to go?"

 

The BIGGEST problem with the F-bodies is the traction. The IRS on the Corvettes really hook the car well. Both my cars are manual, with the stock IRS on the vette, and heavily modified-Nitto wrapped rear on the Camaro, I rarely get the Camaro 60' times under 2.0 usually 2.1 to 1.97. The stock, GSC wrapped 'Vette is usaully around 1.9 to 2.0

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'92 Z28 Black 5.7L 5 Speed
'95 Competition Yellow Corvette Coupe 6 Speed

 

Tom Keliher's car doesnt have more power or quicker ET's than a Z06 Corvette... He doenst have a Miniram either. Altho he had a slipping trans last time he drag raced, I'm still ahead of him. Traxion's car is kicking *** tho, with a Miniram.

Also guys, dont forget the FastBurn heads have the Vortec style intake pattern. A TPI or Miniram intake wont fit! Get a ZZ4 engine with the LT4 HOT cam (same engine I am building) and port the heads as well. You'll see some nice numbers. I'll know for sure when I get mine dynoed.

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1991 Camaro Z28
5.7L 5-Speed (originally 305)
13.25 @ 107.18 MPH
Southern California
Member: SoCal 3rd Gen F-Bodies
Webmaster: SoCal F-Bodies
-=ICON Motorsports=-

 

My bad, you are correct in that I obviously confused Tom's best times so far with those of someone else. But when the tranny is replaced, I think he'll have a legttimate chance of entering Z06 territory. At any rate, I stand by my assertion that: this level of performance is possible for less money than the above project entails.

I didn't mean to imply(and don't think I did) that the MiniRam was the only way to beat a Z06. I think the SuperRam is a viable way to do that if you are committed to staying with heads that have the conventional intake face. And there is always the faint glimmer, that S-D may some day release thier Vortec base(which the SuperRam could take advantage of).

 

wait a minute here. The Z06 is $50k first off. This car was built for the road course. sure you can put mega bucks into go fast parts, but will it turn, stop, accelerate out of a corner like a Z06? I doubt it. Don't get me wrong I love our cars, but this is a factory race car. Unless you spend more than the price of the Z06 on your camaro, you will not catch it in the whole aspects of a "sports car". If this makes some mad I am sorry, just my opinion.

Jeremy


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92 Z conv
5-spd B&M shifter
home-made ram air, air foil, headers, no cat, TB bypass, kevlar pads, slotted rotors, BMR panhard, alston SFC
when it warms up Edelbrock STB maybe springs

 

I say 450hp, tight trans. , manual or auto, good gearing, call Hotchkis for suspension mods, call Baer for braking, get a good set of wheels with a performance tire of choice.... I see a car that will be in the same ballpark as the Z06 Vette, for much less than the price they get for them. Don't get me wrong, a Z06 Vette will allways have the "Vette" status, but that does not mean that an older car won't beat it. I believe that my car, after I get it tuned correctly, should at least hang with a new Z06 except in the braking department, Baer brakes are coming up soon, but I have spent alot less on the overall package and I can say to myself "I built it" not just have something anyone can buy. Just my thought.....

http://sc3gfb.org/members/jason.html



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1991 Camaro ,polished TPI, 355ci. Sportsman 11 heads, LT-4 Hot cam,Pete Jackson gear drive, on,and on, and on... 13.6 @ 102.5 with a 2:73 open rear, no traction, no tuning, no practice. Car is pictured in Chevy High Performance magazine, June 2000 issue.

1985 California Edition IROC red, polished TPI and polished wheels, otherwise completely stock 305ci. 700r4

1991 fullsize Blazer 4-wheel drive, 350,700r4, Pro Comp lift, K&N, TBI spacer, 3" Catco cat, 3" cat back Flowmaster, etc....

 

I believe that you can build a third gen that will perform better then a Z06 in all areas for less then $50k. It will cost some bucks, that's for sure, but there is ALWAYS better products to be found in the Aftermarket if you're willing to pay the price, and the overall package will still be cheaper then a new flagship vette.

 

But you can get a 1 or 2 year old z06 for around 30k$. It would probably still be cheaper to build the camaro but not as reliable. No work involved(except writing the check every month) And you still wouldn't have the "vette" status. Just my .02

 

Yes, but how much money would it cost to make a corvette look as good as a thirdgen?

 

I've pulled 2.0s on my FWD, Goodyear Aquatread shod Grand Prix, with stock suspension... I should surely hope that better times then that are possible with your setup.

Regardless, the thirdgen chassis is going to be at a distinct disadvantage over the Z06 in stiffness and weight.

 

another thing people arent looking at here is powerband. the LS6 has a very wide powerband all the way up to just shy of 6500 rpms. it may run mid 12s but it does it at about 115 mph. there was a guy on the z06 boards that slapped a set of slicks on a stock z06 and ran an 11.5@ almost 120 mph. a 3rd gen im sorry to say will never be in the same league as a z06. it can run one down, out corner it, out break it but overall wont even compare.

 

Or revive a 4 YO post

 

I wouldn't get all wrapped around the axle about beating a factory car. GM can spend hundreds of millions of dollars engineering a car to do whatever they want to do. Guys like us who wrench on a car in our backyards are not going to compete with that.

What I take pride in is the fact that I built what I'm driving. So when some automotive ignoramous comes bragging to me about their store-bought cookie cutter car, they promptly get told to go jump in the lake (that is, after I finish yawning ) . I tell them, look, why are you bragging? Don't you think I could go out tommorrow and buy one too? Then what would you have to brag to me about? BUT, you couldn't in your wildest dreams build a car like what I built. So who then should be bragging???

So to you all, I simply say take pride in what you built! If you can take a stock 14.5-15 second 3rd gen (2nd gen in my case) and turn it into a 12 second boulevard bruiser, then don't worry about Z06's, or the WRX's, or the SVT Mustangs, or whatever it is. Leave them to the wannabe hot rodders who don't know a cubic inch from a connecting rod and would be slower than dirt without factory performance to buy.

 

Not to mention the Z06 bottom end is nothing to write home about....I mean even the ford 5.0 had some forged internals in it....And in the one post above,how does a care pick up 5mph by adding slicks.....I thought cars usually drop a little off mph when switching to slicks?

 

Well, I've got a friend with a 2001 Z06 and I've freeway raced him quite a few times in my 91Z with the L98 motor. Of course this does not really apply to what you guys are talking about (roadracing, dragracing, reliability, etc), but with a completely stock 135k L98 (stock heads, stock cam, stock TPI, stock manifolds) and a Vortech S-Trim V1 pushing 6psi, the Z06 still pulls me. These are rolling starts from 60mph to 100mph. By 100mph the Z06 consistently has 1.5-2 car lengths on me. I've got a total of $10,500 into my 91Z inc the car. I'll get there some day hahahhaha

 

most anyone is $5-8k away from straight line performance in beating a Z06, But it will take another $$$$ to match the handling.

quoted from a z06 driver who recently traded it for a 97 lt4 firehawk

"the Z06 had way TO much handling for what i wanted. I could literally turn at 80 with one finger on the wheel and not worry. With traction management. Inidivual braking on each wheel controlled by sensing slippage. Brakes are so touchy you can blister the front nose by moving it just a 1/4 inch lower to fast."

one thing he loved about going back to an f-body was the ease of throwing the car around without the computer fighting to keep traction

Here are some comparisons between his 92lt1 vette, 97lt4 firehawk and 01 Z06:

http://www.ws6zxr.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30778

 

well i'm actually planing on doin that exact ZZ430 setup but i also want it to be fuel injected and not carbed. i'm hoping holley will come out with a stealth ram intake manifold that will match up with GM's vortech heads. i know i will still have to beef up my 700R4 and will need a new rear but as far as handling goes my 92 Z28 is a 1LE and with new springs shocks the tublar k member and a nice wide and stickie set of tires the car will handle plenty for me just my .02 my only problem is as of now(at least that i'm aware of) no one makes a vortech/stealth ram setup/ please someone make one cause theres no way any aftermarket TPI can support the 430 hp mark of the hot cam and fast burn heads.