Hey guys,

Posted awhile back about Ford SVO 24# injector swap
on a TPI 350. I addressed some concerns, and you guys
answered wonderfully.

Due to the Graveyard shift, It takes me alittle while to
get things done. But, I finally buttoned up the intake
and got it fired up. a new TPS, IAC, 02 sensor, knock sensor,
ignition module, and new coil were added as well.

I fired it up, and I was blown away with the sound and
idle quality. It really woke up after the swap.

My major concern, and main point of this thread was,
the car is rich, and requires modification to the injector bin
file, emissions is coming up soon and I'm worried.

The car does not smell or smoke at idle, but ..Ill rev it to WOT
in park and she'll produce a cloud of grayish-whiteish smoke.

The car sat for 2 weeks while I was working on it, plus the
fresh injectors. Should I drive her around before drawing any
conclusions? Does the ECM need to relearn the fuel curve?
the car should adjust moderately right?

Im thinking the gas and new injectors could produce the smoke.

TPS is @ .62v and the o2 sensor voltages satisfactory.
Idle is right at 850rpm nice and steady, cam is quite
big at 224* .. but, nevertheless it sounds great.

I haven't drove the car under load, Id like to do a few
pulls to WOT tomorrow.

Did anyone else have initial smoking out the exhaust
after installing new or bigger fuel injectors?

The car is going in for tune in a week. I just wanted
to get a heads-up from the best forums on earth




Thanks!

 

The injector constant should be matched to what you are useing. The ecm will compensate for about a 20% change. but open loop, just after start up, AE, PE (WOT) will still be rich. The farther you get from stock the more important the tune.

 

Well! I don't know what I did, but it stopped smoking @ WOT in neutral.
and It does not smoke under load, I did a few pulls yesterday down my
street. That's good news!

Discovered something equally disturbing. She pings hard uptop of
her RPM range, but only after 1st gear, then after.. detonation is
prevelant during the rest the pull.

EST is bypassed, 1st gear it pulls phenomenal, very clean..
2nd and Drive is when she starts to ping... No codes thrown,
I retarded the timing until she would not like to run and the ping
still exists.. What would this indicate offhand? Ignition issue?

New knock sensor and circuit looks fine.

I must have missed something during reassembly!


Any ideas? Id like to know why before taking the
car in for the ECM work, again.. no codes logged.

 

those 24's make it at 39.18psi at tpi's 43.5 the make 25.5lbs per hour

 

After about 2 hours of searching, Im now sick to my stomach.

Most common Q & A for pinging under certain loads was:
blown head gasket, valve seals, too high compression, distributor
wear and tear, & cheap gas ..all issues occurred with factory timing
or less. My distributor gear has some play, I find it hard to believe
that the wear would cause such an issue.

I could list a few more, but.. I listed what applies to my symptom.

All I know is, I just finished putting it together 16 hours ago and it
doesn't leak a drop! Looks like she has to come back apart again..



Appreciate the input so far.

 

Before tearing things apart, I would check all the basic tune up stuff. check the plugs, timing (with a timing light), varify timing tab on damper, do a data scan (remember aldl advances timing 10 degress) make sure the knock sensor is working.

Be careful too much ping and for too long equals broken motor.

I am a day sleeper too.

 

What gas octane are you using ????

 

With larger flowing injectors than the ECM is programmed with, will cause the BLM value to drop,,, "No ECM correction" for fueling is represnted by 128 for the BLM (block learn memory) value. I think that the ECM may be limited to dropping to a value of 108, which is 16% correction. The injectors are about 16% bigger the the stock injector value. So you are on the verge of setting an error code, unless the modified Eprom that you have is programmed with something different than the stock injector value.

Furthermore, at AE or PE (power enrichment) mode, the BLM value is locked to 128, therefore no fuel correction occurs at WOT. You should be running rich at WOT which should suppress pinging (but you have pinging). This is a puzzle to me. But as I said, it depends on what the Eprom chip is programmed with.

Also, that modded Eprom chip may have to much advanced timing in it. You just never know. To much ECM timing at WOT will cause pinging.

If you want to send me your Eprom chip, I could read it and send it back to you. I do "burn" my own Eproms, so I think that I can help out. Maybe, you can ship me the stock one, I could reprogram that one.

 

91 octane is what is available, Ive used it since I built the car.

Im puzzled just as you are, I should be rich! There is potential to
hurt the engine with how bad this detonation gets.

Right now, It's the original prom the car came with. I stated I was going
to take it to a reputable TPI shop that ive done business with before.
He was going to delete my CSI, adjust for the injectors, and monitor
the condition of the engine.

..think there is something rudimentally wrong, the last thing I was
expecting was to be lean at WOT. I need to get this thing on a computer screen and see exactly how the car is reacting.

Initial timing and total timing, Ive tinkered with everything, unless
my harmonic balancer slipped and it throws me off of TDC. Unlikely.
and, Ill be the first to admit my distributor has alot of miles on it, still..

I find it weird the car will pull cleanly through 1st gear. 2nd and
Drive operation is where this occurs. And from the search engine
here on TGO, it is a common problem with any engine, TPI or not!

I didn't like search results either

 

I should also mention the engine is a beast in Open loop operation.

Not until closed loop is when you can physically hear a difference
of how the engine responds. Ill have to double check o2 sensor
operation and like I said, get this sucker datalogged and see
exactly what is going haywire in closed loop.
----------

Gracious offer! I just saw that. The ECM should be
calibrated for 22lbs injectors, Ive never messed with the prom.

Lemme see how far I can get before I hit a wall

 

Excessive fuel can also cause detonation.

Don't fret, get the fuel pressure down or reprogram the chip for 24# and I bet it'll be fine.

 

She goes in the shop on the 8th of next month for the
prom work. In the meantime Ill check the fuel pressure,
pull a plug, and try not to drive it.

Emissions lurks as well...

 

Do you have access to an E85 pump? mix about 1/3 of E85 into ur regular gas for emissions test. Its 105 octane and leans out your fuel and burns way cleaner

 

just a quick question, are you driving it with the EST bypassed? you stated before that it was bypassed.....hopefully this was ONLY to adjust the base timing and not while you were trying to drive the vehicle.

 

That is correct. I adjusted base timing with EST bypassed and
plugged her back in. Since I had no luck with stopping the detonation
I disconnected it again and ran the engine, retarded it as far as I
could, reconnected and still had some nasty ping.

Driving with the EST bypass disconnected would ping worse no?

 

disconnecting the est bypass removes ecm spark adv.

the engine then gets its spark advance from the mechanical setting. that is why the ecm has a place to input base timing. cause it is base plus ecm.

est bypass is like hooking and unhooking a vacuum advance line on the old vacuum advance dis. setups from a carb. I hope I got this correct.

If the base timing was correct. It should have been way retarded. the dis. supplies the trigger for the spark pulse.