Ok here is the deal, sometimes my car will start up fine when you turn it to accessery then on(sometimes) so I was reading up on what it could be. I read the post about turning the ignition on fast as in turning the key fast to start it, well it works 80 percent of the time when I do that, other wise it will try to start but just shut down, Could it be a leaking injector? possible the coolent temp sensor I think I also read about? It has a new fuel pump and it had the same symptims(sp?) before I put it in too. Its not a cold/warm thing either as it happens in all conditions, also when it does not start at all I have to put my foot on the gas ever so slightly and then it will start up while the foot is on the gas, but when I do this I have to keep my foot on it at all times other wise when I drop under 30mph (slowing down for stop light) the RPM's will just drop and shut the car off. Its like I have to keep it ideling, wont do it on its own. When the car starts up fine I have no problems what so ever and it runs perfect. Im only 17 and I dont have any money at all to take it in and get it checked out so I was hopeing you guys could give a few suggestions? Thanks

 

when you get it to start with the foot thing you have to keep it thier or it dies?

I would guess possible injectors....

what do you injector gurus think?

 

or tps sensor?

 

Yeah, you have to keep it ideling. Or it will just die, it has brand new injectors put in, I still have the recept(sp?) from the previous owner when he had the car worked on. Also it has a new computer too.

 

Are you the same guy that was having this problem a few weeks ago?

-- Joe

 

No, this is my first time posting.

 

if you have to throttle it to keep it running, its possible that your IAC is bad (idle air control motor). its screwed into the bottom front of your throttle body. it creates a constant controlled vacuum leak to control the idle speed of the engine. its the one that has a 4 prong connector when you look at it disconnected. you cant miss it, just look for the connector that is underneath the throttle position sensor. sometimes you can get away with taking them off and cleaning them with some carb cleaner, but sometimes it will be completely shot and needs a replacement. they dont cost that much.

 

Ok, ill take a look at that tomorrow, thanks.

 

89,

Welcome aboard!

You don't need a lot of money to fix most of your problems, only time, some information, and a few tools.

But first things first. Turning the key quickly from OFF to START doesn't do any good. Read on, and I'll explain a few conventions about your engine and control system.

Your car has an electric fuel pump, as you know. The pump has to operate to build pressure in the fuel injector rails before the engine will run. The fuel pump is controlled by the ECM when you first turn on the key. The ECM will operate the pump for about two seconds to pressurize, or "prime" the fuel rails.

Back up one step from there, and understand what the ECM is doing when the key is first turned to ON. The next time you get in your car, watch the "Service Engine Soon" (SES) light on the dash before you do anything. As you turn the ignition from OFF to ON, the ECM is just getting power. The SES lamp should light briefly, turn off briefly, then light again and remain lit until the engine is running. This "SES bounce" is a signal that the ECM is performing a self-diagnostic routine on power-up. When the light comes on for the second time, the ECM is ready to run the engine. Until then, no ECM outputs are energized since they are all being tested for opens and shorts. This means that the fuel pump cannot run until the ECM is ready, or after the SES light comes on for the second time. The fuel injectors will also not operate during this period, nor will the IAC, cold start valve, or anything else the ECM controls. The whole thing only takes about half a second, but it still takes time.

Beyond the ECM delaying the fuel pump and injectors, the injectors will not deliver fuel until the fuel rails have at least 20 PSIG of pressure built up. Since the pump cannot produce pressure immediately, it takes about another half-second to build enough pressure to operate the injectors.

Once you understand this, you'll understand why going quickly from OFF to START is useless, and will only cause you to crank the engine for an extra second or so.

The better thing to do is turn the key to ON, watch for the "SES bounce" and scan the dash warning lights to make sure they are working, all while listening for the fuel pump to start. This whole process can take a whole one second out of your life, but can also provide you with a lot of information in that short time. Once the fuel rails are primed, you can crank to your heart's content.

As for your more immediate problem, you really need to buy or borrow a digital voltmeter and a hand held tachometer, then you can get a handle on the situation.

The Sofa King has the right idea (he usually does, but I just can't get past that user name). Your IAC probably needs adjustment, and likely a good cleaning. Those two simple steps, and the proper adjustment of the TPS sensor should solve a good portion of your problems.

Here are the steps:

Throttle Minimum Air Position

Tools needed:
1. Torx driver # T-20
2. Paper Clip
3. Small Punch
4. Tachometer

GENERAL NOTE: The engine should be at normal operating temperature before performing any adjustments. Never rely on the dash mounted instruments for diagnostics and adjustments. The oil pressure and temperature gauges and the voltmeter and tachometer just aren't calibrated accurately enough for diagnosis, but are a relative indication for monitoring the vehicle while driving.

For this adjustment, the transmission will be in DRIVE while you're under the hood. You will need to securely set the parking brake and block the drive wheels. It would also be a good idea to have an assistant hold the service brakes while you perform the adjustments.

In order to successfully complete the adjustment, the IAC air passages and pintle need to be clean. The throttle plates and bores need to be clean as well. If this is not the case, you'll need to remove the air cleaner from TBI engines or the intake air bellows from TPI engines to gain access to the area to be cleaned. A spray-type carburetor cleaner works well for this. Cleaning the IAC passages on a TPI/MAF engine will set a DTC, but we'll be clearing that later. With the engine idling, direct the spray cleaner into the IAC air passages and around the throttle plates. Shut off the engine and continue cleaning the throttle plates by opening the throttle manually. Once everything is satisfactorily cleaned, replace the air bellows on TPI engines. Many times, this alone can solve IAC/idle speed problems.

If this doesn't solve the problem, you may need to remove and clean the IAC stepper motor. If the IAC appears to be clean and functioning properly, continue with the adjustment procedure.

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Idle Air Control Cleaning

You can remove the IAC and service it. Remove the electrical connector from the IAC. Unscrew the IAC unit from the throttle body.

You can gently rock the pintle back and forth and allow the spring to extend it until it comes apart in your hands. Clean everything with lint-free cloths and a mild solvent. Harsh solvents can affect the insulation of the stepper motor coils. It's generally the dirt and buildup on this worm shaft that causes sluggish IAC operation.

When the worm gear on the pintle shaft is clean and dry, apply one drop of clean light oil to the shaft and work the pintle back into the rack gears of the motor by the same rocking motion. It takes a while to get the pintle back into the worm gears, but you'll get it. It is important to get the pintle fully retracted into the housing so that the pintle is not forced against the gears when reinstalling the IAC unit in the throttle body.

While the IAC is out, clean the air passages in the throttle body. The oriface in the TB where the IAC resides is the seat that the IAC valve closes against, and it can accumulate a lot of carbon, dirt, and debris. The easy way to do this is with carburetor cleaner and a small stiff brush.

When everything is clean and dry, replace the gasket if it is damaged, apply a little anti-seize to the threads, and torque the IAC to the proper specs. (13 ft/lb for '85-'89 , 30 in/lb for 1990-on.) Proceed with setting the TPS and minimum air position.

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Locate the Assembly Line Diagnostic Link connector under your dash panel. Remove the cover if it is still there.




Cut and form a paper clip into a "U" shape. Insert the clip ends into the ALDL in the 'A' and 'B' sockets.




Turn on the ignition, but DON'T start the engine. This will force the ECM into its diagnostic mode. Wait 30 seconds to allow the IAC pintle to fully extend. With the ignition still on, go under the hood, remove the electrical connector from the IAC, then turn off the ignition and remove the paper clip jumper from the ALDL. With the IAC pintle fully extended (closed) all idle air will be controlled by the position of the throttle plates. Some manuals indicate that the EST bypass connector should be disconnected for this procedure, while some make no mention of it. While timing is a factor in idle speed, the EST should only operate as a function of engine RPM, temperature, and detonation sensor inputs. To remove all doubt, disconnect the EST bypass connector is your car is so equipped. Some TBI and V-6 engines do not have this bypass connector, and therefore must be set with no regard to the EST system. The EST can be bypassed on some cars by grounding the diagnostic terminal at the ALDL and continuing with the procedure, but the fuel mixture will be skewed to the rich side, affecting idle speed as well. In any event, the minimum air position idle speed range is wide enough to allow for some variations. As always, it is best to consult your service manual for the exact procedure for your system.

Locate the Torx screw on the left side of the throttle body. It may be equipped with a protective metal cap from the factory. This was intended to discourage adjustment. If the cap is present, use a small punch to knock it out. Once the screw is accessible, start the engine and place the transmission in DRIVE. Adjust the throttle stop to obtain 400-450 RPM with the transmission in "DRIVE" on an automatic transmission car, 450-550 in neutral on a manual transmission car, rotating the Torx screw clockwise to raise speed and counter-clockwise to lower speed. Once the idle RPM is set, place the transmission in PARK and turn off the engine.

Re-connect the electrical connector onto the IAC. Start engine. Idle speed should be governed by the ECM at approximately 600-650 rpm in "DRIVE" (for unmodified cars). Idle speed in NEUTRAL or PARK is less significant, and will be higher.



Throttle Position Sensor (TPS)

Tools needed:
1. Digital Volt-Ohm-Meter (VOM)
2. Breakout jumper wires or probes (make your own)
3. AutoXray, Diacom, or similar scanner will replace the VOM and jumper wires.

Turn on ignition, but don't start the engine.

With a diagnostic scanner: plug in the scanner and read the TPS voltage. It should be 0.54Volts +/- 0.07 VDC.

Connect the VOM to the TPS electrical connector terminals ‘A' and ‘B'.

With a breakout jumper: Disconnect the electrical connector from the TPS. Install the breakout in-line, between the TPS and wiring harness connector. Connect the meter probes to terminals 'A' and 'B' on the connector. (‘B' is the positive connection, ‘A' the signal ground, or negative.)

With probes: If you have very slender probes on your VOM, you can back-probe the TPS connector while it is attached to the TPS. If you have made probes of large dressmakers pins or a similar item, you can back-probe the connector as well. Connect the meter probes to terminals 'A' and 'B' on the connector.

Turn on the ignition to read the TPS output voltage at the idle position. The reading should be 0.54VDC +/- 0.07VDC. The ideal is the center of the range, 0.54VDC for a stock engine. To adjust the output voltage, loosen the two Torx screws holding the TPS to the throttle body, and slightly rotate the TPS up or down, reading the voltage until it comes into specification. Tighten screws. Using the throttle lever, rotate the throttle to WOT (wide open throttle). The TPS voltage should be over 4.0 volts. Close the throttle again, and then slowly open it to WOT, observing the voltage reading. It should increase progressively and in a linear fashion. If it sticks or jumps or falls off at all while doing this check, the TPS sensor may be failing and could be a cause of stumbling and driveability problems.

After achieving the desired setting, turn off the ignition switch. Remove all jumpers or the scanner and reconnect the TPS connector as required.


Reinitializing the ECM

If you set a DTC during the procedure, the SES light should be illuminated on the dash. This ECM retains DTC data for the previous 50 engine starts, so the codes will eventually be cleared. If you want more immediate results, after shutting down the engine disconnect the negative battery terminal for five minutes. This will clear the ECM of all diagnostic trouble codes. Clearing the ECM also clears any data learned about your engine, and clears the radio presets. If you have a Delco-Loc or Theft Loc II radio, make sure you follow the procedure to unlock the radio protection before disconnecting the battery. This five minutes is also just about long enough to clean both battery cables. Reconnect the battery. When you first start the engine after clearing the ECM, the engine will operate with base parameters programmed into the ECM PROM. These parameters may not be optimum for your engine, but the ECM will enter a Block Learn Mode soon after the engine is warm and enters Closed Loop Mode. The ECM will write new data tables specific to your engine and will eventually rely on those tables instead of the base tables of the factory program. You can expedite this process by driving the car for 20 minutes under varying conditions to allow the ECM to initialize. Or you can wait and drive the car normally at your convenience. The BLM tables are constantly being updated as sensor input ranges change, but the greatest change will occur within the first twenty minutes of Closed Loop operation.

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Later,
Vader
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If you want to beat the World, it might reach up and pull you down...
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