In the December 2001 Chevy High performance, they state that the Vortec heads were the Best Buy. "Capable of 390 to 420 HP When combined with a performance camshaft"

I am not saying they are the best, just a great buy for a low buck Engine buildup.

John

 

Yeah, but the problem is, gthe cheap out of the box cost gets offset by the fact that you will absolutely need new springs, and i have heard a little machine work to make sure you don't have guide clearance problems on 0.500+ cams. And you need a vortec specific intake, which as of right now are more $$$ than a regular intake (not counting the plethora of cheap used ones out there.) and the exhaust port isn't that great either, so a little bit of porting is needed to make them reasonably balanced. Also, if you have early style heads you'll need to pick up a set of self aligning rockers as well.
They're a fine head other than that, it's just thats a lot of junk to have to deal with to the point that it's not exactly the greatest deal out there.

------------------
Ed Maher - Moderator @ The TPI & Carb Boards
92 Z28 Convertible - Quasar blue / Tan top
305 TPI A4 2.73 - 14.7 @ 93.6
Stock except ported plenum and dual cats
-=ICON Motorsports=-

- Definitely prototypes, high powered mutants of some kind. Too weird to live, too cool to die

 

Exactly.

 

Yeah that summed it up pretty well. Figure closer to $600-650 for the vortec heads. Then go and compare them to Aluminum heads weighing 40-50lbs less and allowing more compression on pump gas. Good luck making 400hp with them out of the box. Same goes for Aluminum L98 vette heads out of the box.

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14.62@96mph headers, muffler, chip, ghetto stuff, duct tape
89 GTA 305 TPI 5 speed 3.42 gears

 

Allow me to rebuff a bit.

Yes you will need new springs, without a doubt, unless your runnin a roller cam springs are about 50 bucks. Unless you have a tuned port motor, the intake costs only about 45 bucks more than a standard type intake.

As far as the exhaust valve goes, they are a stock gm head, and like damn near every other stock gm head they have a 66-68% E/I ratio, the last thing you wanna do is go in there with a dremmel and play smokey Yunick, the heads are quite sensitive to that stuff.

As far as rocker arms go, if your going to be running a good cam in there, with around .5 lift your going to need roller fulcrum rockers, and they are all pricey, the crane race golds, if i remember were all the same price, narrowbody, selfaligning or not, so that's a really a non-issue..

Furthermore, you can pick them up used generally for around 300 bucks, at which point they get sent to the machine shop regaurdless. new springs, 3 angle valve job, and guides, Same as every other head that's sent to the shop. At which point the E/I ratio is straitend out some, you can have whatever guides you want in there or modified now at minimal cost, and your still out for about 500 bucks.

So in my eye's they are still a great value.
Fact of the matter is, if your running a tuned port, and want to make some real power, your going to be changing the base anyway.
The way i look at it, it's all money being spent, just depends on where you spend it.

to get that type of perfomance you can spend another 500 bucks on some aftermarket heads that perform similarly, yet fit the stock intake, or you can use these heads and upgrage the induction sytem, which you'd do anyway with other performance heads.

Any way you look at it.. money's getting spent.

 

Pony Killer: You got it right on!!!

------------------
Chronologically challenged. But still kicking!
'92 CAMARO RS
305 TBI 5/spd (now TPI)
B4C Alt.
Cam change:TRW 198/210 ,450/.460 114 LSA
Stock TBI manifolds
'85 IROC Ex.
14.94-92.00 mph
SPDC base and "350" Vortec coming soon!
'69 camaro-BB/Lenco,1050 dominators, /Pump Gas/no drugs 8.97-150+/3200lbs.
SoCal Thirdgen F-Bodies



[This message has been edited by Dyno Don (edited October 24, 2001).]

 

Are the Vortec 305 Heads similarly designed as the Vortec 350's... There is a difference, because the 305 heads cost more. The intake valves are 1.84 instead of 1.94, & the Combustion chamber is 58 instead of 64 or 60 other than that what else is different?

Anyone....


John

 

e/i ratio sucks. thats why they arent a good choice. get some Dart Iron Eagles that are closer to like a high 70's low 80's E/I ratio. a much better iron head overall and you dont have to go with any special stupid intakes.

 

okfoz, the 305 and 350 Vortec's are different...I believe the valve sizes differ and I know the shape of the combustion chamber is different, with the number of L31 350 Vortec heads out there, get the L31's.

FYI: although Vortec's are a 64cc chamber, most uncut ones cc at 61. Minor exhaust porting for these heads works well with headers as long as you don't go overboard...the walls are thin and it would be easy to grind into a water jacket...mild pocket porting and thinning the guides are all that is really necessary. Any more than that and you're better off with another head, keep in mind that the design of these heads if for torque to get heavy trucks moving and by radically porting it you'll lessen the heads ability to loose torque and make it less reliable. In other words, keep it mild. Don't touch the ports.

Best bang for the buck for a budget carb engine, maybe for a Vortec LT1 intake setup (we'll see here soon). I would say for a TPI setup if the base wasn't so damn expensive, especially after a ONE YEAR wait

 

You dont need roller fulcrum rockers for .5 lift.

So, 220 each for the heads, 50 for springs, 50 for rockers, thats $540 bucks minimum. Add into that factor that you MUST get a different intake or somehow modify yours, I dont see the deal. Those who already went out and bought the high perf TPI manifold you seem to think they must have are screwed out of 3-400 bucks to switch and have to pay a rediculous overpriced rate for something that was promised to be cheaper and was supposed to be here more than a year ago, for a FACTORY head that flows better than most factory heads but still gets eaten by the aftermarket crowd.

I dunno... Call me a pessimist but I dont see the point.

 

I am still running a stock intake, so buying a new one really is not that big of a deal. I am planning an intake eventually, I just want to weigh all my options first.

I think the idea of an LT1 intake with Vortec heads might be interesting.

I dunno, there seems to be something mythical about beating the crap out of a guy with a highly modded engine. When I am only running stock heads.

John

 

Chris: Let me see if I can help you ,The intake port of a LT-4, the exhaust port of the L98 alum. head, the super heart shaped combustion chamber of the fast burn and all this for under $440 not to bad if you ask me and with the right cam and runners to go with that, um overpriced manifold, you can expect to make close to 300 horses to the rear wheels. Optimistic, yeah but I'm build- ing one for the white car so we will see soon.

------------------
Chronologically challenged. But still kicking!
'92 CAMARO RS
305 TBI 5/spd (now TPI)
B4C Alt.
Cam change:TRW 198/210 ,450/.460 114 LSA
Stock TBI manifolds
'85 IROC Ex.
14.94-92.00 mph
SPDC base and "350" Vortec coming soon!
'69 camaro-BB/Lenco,1050 dominators, /Pump Gas/no drugs 8.97-150+/3200lbs.
SoCal Thirdgen F-Bodies

 

Dyno Don, I am REALLY interested in your results. I currently have the following cam from SLP: <TABLE BORDER=1 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=3>
<TR>
<TH BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 valign=middle style="background-color: #FFFF00" rowspan="2" align="center" nowrap>
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">SLP Part #</TH>
<TH colspan=2 BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 valign=middle style="background-color: #FFFF00" align="center" nowrap>
Duration
</TH>
<TH COLSPAN=2 BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 valign=middle style="background-color: #FFFF00" align="center" nowrap>
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Dur @ .050</p>
</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 valign=middle style="background-color: #FFFF00" align="center" colspan="2" nowrap>
Lift
</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 valign=middle style="background-color: #FFFF00" rowspan="2" align="center" nowrap>
Centerline
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<TR>
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Int.</TH>
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Exh.</TH>
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<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Int.</TH>
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<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Exh.</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 valign=middle style="background-color: #FFFF00" align="center" nowrap>
Int
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<TD align="center" nowrap>51002</TD><TD align="center" nowrap>258</TD><TD align="center" nowrap>264</TD><TD align="center" nowrap>.206</TD><TD align="center" nowrap>.212</TD>
<TD align="center" nowrap>.480</TD>
<TD align="center" nowrap>.487</TD>
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Should it work with the Vortec heads on a 312 (.040 over 305) or is the lift slightly too high? CHP stated "...the Vortec is limited to around .0470-inch valve lift unless you modify the valve gides and buy new springs..."

Thanks

John

[This message has been edited by okfoz (edited October 27, 2001).]

 

John:
You will have to change the springs:
https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/...ML/004968.html
Check this post above.

------------------
Chronologically challenged. But still kicking!
'92 CAMARO RS
305 TBI 5/spd (now TPI)
B4C Alt.
Cam change:TRW 198/210 ,450/.460 114 LSA
Stock TBI manifolds
'85 IROC Ex.
14.94-92.00 mph
SPDC base and "350" Vortec coming soon!
'69 camaro-BB/Lenco,1050 dominators, /Pump Gas/no drugs 8.97-150+/3200lbs.
SoCal Thirdgen F-Bodies

 

thanks Don, I apprecaite the link

John

 

When you total it up for the heads
it sounds good but i'm not going to pay
$400 for a intake just to bolt on some
factory heads.Then you have people that
already have an aftermarket intake I
know they aren't going to shell out $400
for another intake.Call me crazy but it
just doesn't add pu for me.

 

Would you shell out $350 for and Edelbrock 3860 and Sportsman II heads? The Vortec's outflow them by a bunch. And where it counts, at low lift where the valve spends most of it's time. So let's see $350 Intake +$790 for heads, humm seems to be a no brainer.



------------------
Chronologically challenged. But still kicking!
'92 CAMARO RS
305 TBI 5/spd (now TPI)
B4C Alt.
Cam change:TRW 198/210 ,450/.460 114 LSA
Stock TBI manifolds
'85 IROC Ex.
14.94-92.00 mph
SPDC base and "350" Vortec coming soon!
'69 camaro-BB/Lenco,1050 dominators, /Pump Gas/no drugs 8.97-150+/3200lbs.
SoCal Thirdgen F-Bodies

 

You don't have to run the roller fulcrum rocker for .5 lift on roller cam motors, but you do on flat tappet hydraulic cams.

Personally i'd rather run Iron heads than the aluminum ones. Keep the flattop pistons, keep the heat in combustion chamber., and are generally more reliable. Why I prefer Iron heads to aluminum for anything but all out race use.

I guess my question would be, How fast do you want to go, How much of a Drag car do you want it to be, How often does it get driven, and what kinda gas do you want to feed it.

If Mid 12's, Suspensio mods, weekend cruiser/clean hands car, and high octane pump gas, is what your looking for, Good iron heads are the place to be.

Quicer than that your gonna have to start "dragin" the car out, wieght becomes a real concern, and the hundred lbs or so saved on heads is a deal.

 

for the best bang for the buck the vortecs are the way to go, they flow about 180-190 CFM in STOCK form and probley one of the best SBC heads out there from the factory, downside is they will only take a 470 lift cam stock unless you raise the springs (will bind with the stock springs) and that is EXPENSIVE machine work and most likely need new valves to get the spring height up, then you can run any size cam, but also they didnt have screw in studs or guideplates so theres more money, really if you have a mild street/strip engine these are the way to do, if your trying to use them from a more race oreanted engine these would not be the choice.

 

oh also anything over a 470 lift cam you need to really use the screw in studs and guideplates anyhow so you figure 450$ for a set of new vortecs, machine work for better springs, screw in studs and guide plates will be about 500$ give or take for parts and work so there near 1,000$ there when you could just get some world or dart heads for the same price or less that are decked out and flow better.

 

You can get 375+ horses from the Vortecs right out of the box on a flat top 350 with a cam that works within the limitations of the stock springs,, running the stamped steel rockers. If you don’t already have an intake,, no big deal. If you want more than .465 - .470 lift,, or already have an expensive TPI base,, or if 375 horses won’t appease the blood thirsty need for power,,, you might want to look at the Iron Eagle heads or the aluminum Canfields. At any rate,,, the Vortecs are hard to beat when building in the 375 horse range.

[This message has been edited by BadSS (edited November 02, 2001).]

 

I have seen flow numbers in the 215- 220 cfm @ .500 range at 28 inches with the Vortec heads.. which is not bad at all. But out of the box, they are almost maxed out.. great for a mild setup without use of a TPI.

In comparison the Edelbroks usually flow around 230 cfm @ .500 at 28 inches out of the box for a few hundred more...



[This message has been edited by Kevin G (edited October 31, 2001).]

 

Thats just not true.

 

At higher RPMS on a flat tappet cam with stamped rockers, the oil up to the pivot ***** decreases, causeing them to heat up and start breakin the studs.
With the roller Fulcrum rocker arms they constantly get oiled because the hole in the arme is bored in a different location. fulcrum stays cool, studs don't break.
that is true.

Unless this is a phenomina only associated with boat motors, I'll take pay the money to keep from shedding vavle train parts.

[This message has been edited by Pony Killer (edited November 02, 2001).]

 

There is a guy that drills the Vortecs out to standard(87-92) Bolt design for $150/pair. That throws the aftermarket base idea out the window. I have the website somewhere around here.
Mike

------------------
I would love to be there when those Muslim Bastards hit the Pearly Gates and realize they were wrong...

 

PK,

Sounds to me like your lifters are crap or you have major valvetrain alignment problems.

I have a car running well past 6000 (sometimes as much as 7000) on flat tappets with factory rockers and its been like that for the last 30,000 miles with no problems. I know plenty of other people who have done the same thing.

And I dont see what the location of the oil hole in the roller rocker has to do with the oil received, it comes from the pushrod. The total lift wont affect it, it still has to pass through a point in time where the hole is open and oil can flow through.

We are talking about SBC's (or similar), right?

 

I don't know who is "slamming" them. They are a good basic design with a few shortcomings. Not bad for a factory head.

Depending upon what you want from your engine, they can be a good choice and a decent value.

If you are talking best flow and E/I ratios, however, they aren't "All that". Comparing them to Sportsman IIs as a baseline for a "Performance Head" isn't fair, since the SIIs aren't all that great out of the box either.

Compare them to something with some real flow and balance, like the Brodix Tracks, or better yet, Pro Action. Those flow better than most big-block Chevy heads, and the Pro Actions are just as cheap as the Vortec in the long haul. The money you'll save on the very limited choice of intakes for the Vortecs, and the variety of valves, springs, and intakes you can use blows away any cost "savings" of the Vortecs. The fact that they flow better at 0.400" lifts than the Vortecs at 0.500" lifts is just an extra benefit for non-TPI engines.

Like I said, the Vortecs are a good factory head.

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Later,
Vader
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If you want to beat the World, it might reach up and pull you down...
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