BAD BLACK WS6

Ok, finally got my mechanic to scan my '87 GTA for free and we got the following codes: 15 and 36, which were coolant temp sensor and airflow burnoff malfunctions of some sort. so my question is this, should i replace the MAF burnoff relay? my year calls for this part as the "burnoff" part for the MAF. so i assume it is this relay that is the problem since the code specified burnoff not the MAF itself. or may i need to replace the MAF too? i would like to know if it is the best thing to do, replacing the burnoff relay first. it costs like 10 or 20 bucks and the MAF as we all know costs much more than that. As far as the coolant temp, my reading says its -30 degrees or something like that! prolly why the car runs rich. i suppose the MAF relay is what is causing my hard starts/hesitation/stalling/all around PITA behaviour. it would be a dream come true to get rid of these problems with two simple sensors/relays. well, i just wanted to get the pro's view of what i should do first with these codes. i was thinking MAF burnoff relay and coolant temp sensor replacment? let me know, thanks.

86TpiTransAm

That's what I would do. Replace the relay and the sensor and cross your fingers and hope for the best. The MAF relay would definitely cause all those problems you're having. Replacing the coolant temp sensor will also help you gas mileage. Right now your ECM is never going into closed loop which is hurting your performance and your gas mileage.

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1986 Trans AM
355 TPI
4 Wheel Disc Brakes
9 bolt Borg Warner Rear (2.77's....oh joy) :P
6" rods, approx. 9.7:1 Compression, Stock TPI (soon to be ported), 24#/hr LTI injectors (cleaned and flowmatched by Cruizin Performance), Hedman Shorty Headers, 3" exhaust with 80 series flowmaster, SBC 993 heads completely redone and modified for 1.6 RR, 1.52 RR (for now), Comp Cams XE262-14 TPI Cam, Holley AFPR, TPIS airfoil, MSD wires, MSD 6-AL Ignition, Hypertech 53,000 volt coil.

Track times to come.

BAD BLACK WS6

i hear you on that. the gas mileage sucks, i deliver in it (i had to look cool in my delivery vehicle, so don't rag me out for driving a 5.7 TA on delivery!) and i have been getting hammered on gas. moreso than a usual V8. and of course the symptoms i stated. I forgot to ask.......where is the MAF burnoff relay on a '87 GTA? my relays are all just hanging out, none are bolted down as they should be. but at least the general vicinity of where it should be or where the wires shoot out from. As well, the coolant temp sensor is a bitch if i recall from my 5.0 TPI '86 TA. relay should be easy though. BTW: what is the best place to get these two parts, i saw them in next gen's catalog. would like to go to the dealer since its quick, but want to get the best deal. maybe GMparstdirect i suppose.....

86TpiTransAm

Any local parts store that you have there should carry both of the parts and be cheaper than going through the dealer or catalog sales. The relay should be located on the firewall on the drivers side. I believe there's actually two similar relays that go to the MAF ... one is a MAF relay and the other is a MAF burn off relay.... they're both fairly cheap (like $9 apiece if I remember correctly) so you'd probably be better off replacing both of them. As for the coolant temp sensor... yeah that's a bitch... not too bad just a pain to get too. Make sure you get it and not the sensor next to it which is the cold start injector switch. That one (the injector switch) will have a connector on it that's just like the ones to the injectors. Just a little added info that isn't pertinent but comes in handy.... the part# for the coolant temp sensor is the same part# as the manifold air temp sensor that plugs in underneath the plenum on the back side.

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1986 Trans AM
355 TPI
4 Wheel Disc Brakes
9 bolt Borg Warner Rear (2.77's....oh joy) :P
6" rods, approx. 9.7:1 Compression, Stock TPI (soon to be ported), 24#/hr LTI injectors (cleaned and flowmatched by Cruizin Performance), Hedman Shorty Headers, 3" exhaust with 80 series flowmaster, SBC 993 heads completely redone and modified for 1.6 RR, 1.52 RR (for now), Comp Cams XE262-14 TPI Cam, Holley AFPR, TPIS airfoil, MSD wires, MSD 6-AL Ignition, Hypertech 53,000 volt coil.

Track times to come.

BAD BLACK WS6

I figured that about the parts stores having them.....but its like i'm speaking greek when i ask for MAF Relays instead of MAF units themselves. if i can't find it at the parts stores friday, i may just go to the dealer and see if they have it in stock. hopefully it will be less than double cost like usual. One other thing, next gen lists only the burnoff relay for my year ('87 which is an oddball year, not a 85/86 and not in the 88-92 group). so i THINK my car only calls for the burnoff relay. I will pick the dealers brain first and get the part #'s there, they SHOULD know more than the auto parts guys. But if you are certain it calls for two relays let me know. also, i notice there are a ton of relays on the drivers firewall.....i guess i could use the old "what does it look like" way of finding it after i have the part in hand. I may just have my mechanic throw the car on the lift and charge me whatever to do the coolant sensor. i am basically down to just parking lot repairs since it sits at work and i do not bring it to the house. save myself some trouble for a couple bucks.

86TpiTransAm

Your '87 may not call for both relays. Probably best asking the dealership about that.

As for the coolant sensor.... if you have the multi-belt setup like my car just remove the alternator and the bracket to the alternator and the sensor should be easy to get too. If you have the serpentine setup just remove whatever it takes to get behind the alternator. The shop would just over charge you for something that you could probably do yourself in less than an hour.

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1986 Trans AM
355 TPI
4 Wheel Disc Brakes
9 bolt Borg Warner Rear (2.77's....oh joy) :P
6" rods, approx. 9.7:1 Compression, Stock TPI (soon to be ported), 24#/hr LTI injectors (cleaned and flowmatched by Cruizin Performance), Hedman Shorty Headers, 3" exhaust with 80 series flowmaster, SBC 993 heads completely redone and modified for 1.6 RR, 1.52 RR (for now), Comp Cams XE262-14 TPI Cam, Holley AFPR, TPIS airfoil, MSD wires, MSD 6-AL Ignition, Hypertech 53,000 volt coil.

Track times to come.

BAD BLACK WS6

You know what i just noticed going over the codes on this site? There is only one MAF code i see, the one i got, so it is more than likely my actual MAF. I thought since it was a burnoff code for the MAF it would be specific to the burnoff relay. but there doesn't seem to be a "your MAF isn't working code" like on my OBD2 codes. But i suppose i need to do the relay first anyway, then i have to pull teeth to get it re-scanned (after resetting) for free again to see if the code goes away. aaaargh. i need a handy scanner like i have for the LT1. so much easier to troubleshoot. I bet the farm its the MAF itself though.

86TpiTransAm

Actually, there are two codes.

Code 33: MAF Sensor. Poor electrical connection, open or short circuit; defective MAF sensor, defective ECM

Code 36: MAF sensor burn-off circuit. Poor electrical connection, open or short circuit; defective MAF sensor burn-off relay; defective MAF sensor, defective ECM

Go with the cheapest solution first.... the simplest solution is usually the right one.

As for code scanning... you have a thirdgen, you don't need a scanner. Yes, we have an advantage over 4th gens. Find your ALDL box located on the dash undearneath the right side of the steering wheel.. probably the same box the scanner was connected too. Take a paper clip and make a U shape out of it. Connect it to the two terminals on the top row to the very far right. Now turn the key to the on position. Do NOT turn the engine on. With the key in the on position watch the SES (Service Engine Soon) light. It will flash the trouble codes. All codes are two digits and code 12 will flash first which is normal. The SES light will flash once indicated number 1 ... then there will be a short pause and the SES light will flash twice inidcating number 2.... this is code 12. This code will flash 3 times and then the trouble codes will be extracted... again watch the SES light and count the flashes. Each code will flash 3 times as well before moving on to the next code IF there is another one. If there isn't any more codes then the SES light will begin to flash code 12 again to let you know it's done.

After you change your sensors, disconnect the battery and wait a couple minutes before reconnecting it. What this does is erase any trouble codes that are stored in the ECMs memory. Once you've done that just drive the car like normal, if your SES light never comes on again then you're good to go and the two sensors fixed your problem. If the SES light comes on then shut the car off and extract the codes using the method I described above and go from there.



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1986 Trans AM
355 TPI
4 Wheel Disc Brakes
9 bolt Borg Warner Rear (2.77's....oh joy) :P
6" rods, approx. 9.7:1 Compression, Stock TPI (soon to be ported), 24#/hr LTI injectors (cleaned and flowmatched by Cruizin Performance), Hedman Shorty Headers, 3" exhaust with 80 series flowmaster, SBC 993 heads completely redone and modified for 1.6 RR, 1.52 RR (for now), Comp Cams XE262-14 TPI Cam, Holley AFPR, TPIS airfoil, MSD wires, MSD 6-AL Ignition, Hypertech 53,000 volt coil.

Track times to come.

BAD BLACK WS6

sorry i made you type all that good info, but my check engine light is not working. whether the former owner was a **** and disconnected it or pulled the bulb (most likely) or whether it is defective on its own, it doesn't work. so i really can't use the old hairpin trick since the light won't flash for me. i used to do that all the time on my '86 and '87 TA's. flash flash flash....... guess i need to figure out how to fix my check engine light so i can use the ghetto style scan. Thanks for all the info though, i will go re-read the codes since i must have missed that one (or they listed it different on the FAQ page here).

BAD BLACK WS6

Oh and BTW: i have no problem with the code erasing...i have to disconnect the battery every night since there is a short that i can't track for the life of me. and now i know who is bidding on my stock LT1 24 lb injectors on ebay, a thirdgen guy i suppose by looking at your sig. i did not think anyone would want my old LT1 injectors....was suprised at how high the bids are. guess they are in high demand.

86TpiTransAm

The thing about the LT1 injectors is that they're more cost effective than buying brand new injectors. I bought my 24# injectors for a whoppin total of $25 and for $80 got them cleaned and flowmatched with new screens and o-rings and now they flow better than they did from GM.

BAD BLACK WS6

Heh heh, then i am doing good. mine are up to 29$ with 5 plus days to go! Thanks again for all the help, will be trying the MAF relay today if i can get it local. will update if i figure it out.

86TpiTransAm

Yeah, let me know how that goes.