Hey,

I was thinking about tossing a MSD 6al box in this weekend. Did any of you notice any
type of performacne improvement on your
TPI car with this box installed?

-- Joe

------------------
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
1989 Formula 350 4-bolt mains, Forged .030 TRW pistons, SLP 51010 Roller Cam, Comp-cams roller lifters,
Summit 1.5 roller rockers, World Products Sportsman II 2.02/1.60 heads, Edelbrock TPI Intake,
Cloyes Double Roller, timing chain, Mellings oil pump: 13.5 @ 100.23 MPH

Since close of track : Ported SLP runners, Ported Plenum, AFPR, Autometer 100lbs gauge, A/F ratio gauge.

http://www.joesperformance.com

 

To be honest- no......

------------------
GTA -89:383, 4-bolt,Free flow muffler,dual 3" HF cats, Edelbrock headers, Canfield heads, 1.52 RR 7/16, ZZ-9 cam, Big Mouth, AS&M LTR, !plenum, 52 TB, MSD 6AL, TPIS level V prom, Superior shift-kit and all the minor mods,looking for a SR ...
http://www.itv.se/tacs/members_cars/m279/m279.html (Swedish Trans Am Club)

 

What he said.
Plus your hip pocket will be lighter.

------------------
Chronologically challenged. But still kicking!
'92 CAMARO RS
305 TBI 5/spd (now TPI)
B4C Alt.
Cam change:TRW 198/210 ,450/.460 114 LSA
Stock TBI manifolds
'85 IROC 3" Cat. back Exhaust
14.94-92.00 mph
SDPC base and "350" Vortec coming soon!
'69 camaro-BB/Lenco,1050 dominators, /Pump Gas/no drugs 8.97-150+/3200lbs.
SoCal Thirdgen F-Bodies

 

It should help with fuel economy, I guess.


------------------

WS6 Trans Am.

View My Ride @ thirdgen.org

 

Hey,

Well I might be able to score it kinda cheap.

The biggest thing I wanted out of it was the
rev limiter tho., My motor will rev to 10 grand if I let it. heh

-- Joe

------------------
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
1989 Formula 350 4-bolt mains, Forged .030 TRW pistons, SLP 51010 Roller Cam, Comp-cams roller lifters,
Summit 1.5 roller rockers, World Products Sportsman II 2.02/1.60 heads, Edelbrock TPI Intake,
Cloyes Double Roller, timing chain, Mellings oil pump: 13.5 @ 100.23 MPH

Since close of track : Ported SLP runners, Ported Plenum, AFPR, Autometer 100lbs gauge, A/F ratio gauge.

http://www.joesperformance.com

 

Well I feel that the MSD box did help my performance and mileage a bit. I noticed my engine revving smoother and a bit higher than without it.

And as far as rev limiters go, the MSD one is inferior to the one in the ECM. It is true that the factory PROMs have them set to 10 grand. But that is just a calibration in the PROM. If you get into PROM burning you can set the rev limiter to whatever RPM you want - WITHOUT having to buy a bunch of different chips for the MSD box.... Plus, the limiter in the ECM will randomly pull fuel out and not spark, which is a much safer type of limiter then the MSD one. So if you can also score a MSD 6A for a good deal, I would go with that and use the money you saved to get into burning your own PROM and use that for your limiter. You can't beat the unlimited flexibility and better design of it.

------------------
1987 GTA L98 MD8
355, TFS Heads, LT4 Hot Cam
My GTA

The Minnesota F-body Club

 

Hey Matt,

Looking at your website, it appears you had some problems getting the 6al box working correctly with your tach.

The box I was gonna pick up from a friend (for prolly close to nothing) doesn't have the adapter for our cars. I was just gonna wire it in (based on the image on msd's website.

What was your ultimate solution?

Happy Thanksgiving man!

-- Joe

------------------
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
1989 Formula 350 4-bolt mains, Forged .030 TRW pistons, SLP 51010 Roller Cam, Comp-cams roller lifters,
Summit 1.5 roller rockers, World Products Sportsman II 2.02/1.60 heads, Edelbrock TPI Intake,
Cloyes Double Roller, timing chain, Mellings oil pump: 13.5 @ 100.23 MPH

Since close of track : Ported SLP runners, Ported Plenum, AFPR, Autometer 100lbs gauge, A/F ratio gauge.

http://www.joesperformance.com

 

I can notice a slight difference with my ZZ4TPI motor. It's very easy to plug the MSD in and unplug it for testing/troubleshooting. She just pulls a little stronger.

------------------
Rob P
89RSconvtZZ4TPI Edelbrock Intake
SLP Dual Cold Air Intake 1 5/8" Headers Semi-Siamesed Runners, IROC
suspension, alum shaft. Numerous mods.
92Z28convt5spd (stock)
71Impala convt 402BB
BETTER DRIVING THRU SUPERIOR HORSEPOWER!

 

I did not notice any performance improvement at all, but it screwed up my tach so I had to buy from them this little transformer looking thing to fix the problem. If I were you I would just put in a new coil,wires and plugs and be done with it.

------------------
89 T-Top GTA 350 5-speed (soon to be 6-speed)
(Jet hot coated)1 3/4 SLP headers,flowmaster force 2,no cat's,SLP cold air,MSD 6al,march pulleys,ported plenum,air foil,B&M ripper shifter,180 stat,alston SFC,spohn LCA relocation brackets,ES LCA and Panhard bushings,free mods.

0-60 5.2s
Track Time
60' 2.049
E.T. 14.14@96.7MPH (2270 FT)
13.76@99.4MPH corrected

 

Yeah, I ended up having to buy an adapter from MSD to get the tach to read accurately. It is part number 8910 and lists in Summit for $25 and actually goes in parallel with the tach signal wire off of the negative terminal of the coil. If you buy the harness that allows you to plug the MSD box into the system, you won't need to do any splicing.

The reason I didn't buy the adapter (it is a coil of wires wrapped around a magnet that appears to me to be some sort of a filter) right away when I bought the box was becuase I heard from more than one person that an adapter is not required on our cars.... Well, I don't know what the deal is with why mine (and a friends 87 Formula 350) need the adapter and others don't, but since yours is an 89, you might want to give it a try without the adapter.... My site has all of the symptoms that you will run into if you end up needing the adapter.

That whole tach business was really a pain for me. I ended up going quite a while before I had a tach that would read at high rpm accurately (or as accurate as the factory tach will read ). So if my website helps just one person......

The point made by the person that didn't notice any gain in performance from their MSD box that you should replace the coil, wires, and spark plugs, is a good one. But it should be done in conjunction with the install of the MSD box - not instead of it. If you install an MSD box into a system that has old, weak, and in need of replacement spark plugs, wires and/or ignition coil, how can you expect it to do its job? And the idea that doing maintenance items like those, will give you a performance gain is ludicrous. By replacing those parts you will only be getting the car back to where it should have been in the first place. The MSD ignition system is a proven system that improves performance and reliability - whether you feel it, notice it, or are actually using it, or not.

Well, good luck

------------------
1987 GTA L98 MD8
355, TFS Heads, LT4 Hot Cam
My GTA

The Minnesota F-body Club

 

Hey Matt, Thanks for the response,

I'm prolly gonna score this unit for free,
but I thought I'd ask anyway. Last thing I need is a faulty ignition. So I guess I'll
give it a try.

So your burning proms huh? I may have some questions for you down the road, if you dont mind.

>The point made by the person that didn't >notice any gain in performance from their >MSD box that you should replace the coil,
>wires, and spark plugs, is a good one.

Well this motor has about 700miles on it,
new 8MM wires, Accel cap and rotor, and a brand new ac delco coil + dist. (I bought the
coil just to get the motor running, will replace it with a high output model soon).

I'm running AC DELCO plugs. (for some things,
I've just always been an AC fan.)

This motor has seen probably. 50 runs at the
track, and maybe 5 days of driving around
town and thats about it. Its my friday
and saturday race car, and sunday "drive
around town, avoiding the EPA police" car.

> MSD ignition system is a proven system that > improves performance and reliability - > whether you feel it, notice it, or are >actuall using it, or not.

I figure every little bit helps. I've been
running 13.50 ET consistantly this past
season. Since then, have put on AFPR,
SLP siamese runners, and working on a larger
TB and an airfoil. I imagine I should probably stop running a factory PROM huh?

I'm hoping for high 12's this spring,
naturally aspirated.

I'm not even running an 89 prom because I
had to rip the vats module out, and rip out
the starter disable relay. When I bought
the body, there was no column in it. After
trying a bunch of resisters to disable vats,
I gave right up on it, and just use an 88 ECM
now.

------------------
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
1989 Formula 350 4-bolt mains, Forged .030 TRW pistons, SLP 51010 Roller Cam, Comp-cams roller lifters,
Summit 1.5 roller rockers, World Products Sportsman II 2.02/1.60 heads, Edelbrock TPI Intake,
Cloyes Double Roller, timing chain, Mellings oil pump: 13.5 @ 100.23 MPH

Since close of track : Ported SLP runners, Ported Plenum, AFPR, Autometer 100lbs gauge, A/F ratio gauge.

http://www.joesperformance.com

[This message has been edited by anesthes (edited November 22, 2001).]

 

MSD boxes and really any ignition upgrade on a stock or street strip car will notice bairly anything if that power wise, they make the car run a little smoother and start better but thats about it, i used one as im spraying the engine and make sure its got really hot spark, other then a race car i think you can spend the 180$ better on other parts.

 

I didnt have any problems with my tach. I bought the harness for the remote coil. It was very easy to install. I did get better throttle responce from the box. You can feel the difference when its not connected. The car feels kinda flat without it. I have the MSD coil also.

------------------
90 IROC
SuperRamed 406
Trickflow 23* heads

 

The only GM applications that require the tach adapter are the 87-89 Firebirds(Pontiacs). The rest of them have a tach filter in line that needs to be removed, this of course is if the tach does not function(this is in all cases). Limiting fuel is not the safest way of doing it, if for any reason that cylinder received a partial shot of fuel, possibly a leaking injector etc., that cylinder would have catastrophic melt down. Not that it would happen, but the possibility of it. Limiting spark, there is not any ill effects on the motor. The fuel charge that was not fired is pushed into the exhaust. Limiting fuel on a power added application, you can imagine the potential problems. As for the amount of power that adding the box will max, that really depends on the application. On a completely stock application power increases will be minimal, your most noticeable gains will be in mileage, throttle response starting. The more modifications you do, the more an aftermarket ignition in general will help. The higher the RPM range, cylinder pressure fuel load all come into play. The stock ignition will loose output as rpm increases or you place more demand on it. Any capacitive discharge ignition will out perform the stock inductive ignition. Any time you can get a more complete fuel burn you will see an increase across the board. These are just ignitions, they are not a turbo, NOS blowers they are designed to increase spark energy and fuel burn. Companies that make claims about how much of a gain your going to see is trying to sell you something, because of the variables I mentioned above it is impossible to make a power claim. I hope I did not go to far off track on this, I am just trying to clear some things up.

Thanks,

Joe

 

I'm kinda confused as to where/how these install. Can anyone explain this to me? Do they just plug in somewhere and that's that? Which would be better for an '87 305 TPI Camaro w/ 700R4 trans, 6A or 6AL? I'm not in a big hurry or anything, just trying to learn before I jump into something...

 

Fairly easy to install, Ground the wire on the body somewhere, run the other to the battery. Run the other bunch of wires other to the distbutor. They all plug in if you buy the wiring harness. As for the difference between boxes, the 6A doesn't have the rev limiter the 6AL does.

 

What do you do when the rev limiter chip says "6000" on it, but its limiting you to 3000.

-- Joe

------------------
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
1989 Formula 350 4-bolt mains, Forged .030 TRW pistons, SLP 51010 Roller Cam, Comp-cams roller lifters,
Summit 1.5 roller rockers, World Products Sportsman II 2.02/1.60 heads, Edelbrock TPI Intake,
Cloyes Double Roller, timing chain, Mellings oil pump: 13.5 @ 100.23 MPH

Since close of track : Ported SLP runners, Ported Plenum, AFPR, Autometer 100lbs gauge, A/F ratio gauge.

http://www.joesperformance.com

 

Please see your other <A HREF="https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/Forum12/HTML/005501.html">posting</A> about the rev limiter.

 

Hi,

Thanks for the link , afgun! I didn't see that as an option on the individual pages, so I didnt think it was there. Looks like I just need
to short a whire back together.

Oddly enough, the MSD page has two diagrams
for GM style coils. One is:

http://www.msdignition.com/pdf/6series.pdf
And shows:

Connect both pinks from coil togther, and
mate with orange. Connect both whites from
coil and mate with black. Connect both whites
from dist, and tach, and mate with white.
Connect both pinks from dist, and key and
mate with red.

Yet the inidvidial "GM dual connector" illistration, shows otherwise:

http://www.msdignition.com/pdf/pdf9.pdf

Connect front white from coil to black, Connect back pink from coil to orange. Front
pink is not used, and back pink goes to tach.
Connect dist white to white, aand dist
pink and key to red.

What did you guys use ? (if you didnt use the adapter).

Thanks!!



------------------
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
1989 Formula 350 4-bolt mains, Forged .030 TRW pistons, SLP 51010 Roller Cam, Comp-cams roller lifters,
Summit 1.5 roller rockers, World Products Sportsman II 2.02/1.60 heads, Edelbrock TPI Intake,
Cloyes Double Roller, timing chain, Mellings oil pump: 13.5 @ 100.23 MPH

Since close of track : Ported SLP runners, Ported Plenum, AFPR, Autometer 100lbs gauge, A/F ratio gauge.

http://www.joesperformance.com

[This message has been edited by anesthes (edited November 25, 2001).]

 

i noticed that it pulls harder in the upper rpm range and help my fuel economy..

------------------
91z28 350tpi auto, runs 14.3... aim screen name nice3rdgenz
http://www.fbody.com/members/nice3rdgenz/index.htm