dbb

Okay,

I'm a 1st Gen guy 67, 68 Firebird guy by nature, I just picked up an 87 gta. Always love the third gen's, and I'm all grins and giggles. (spoiled, air, tilt, power everything, the seats in these things come on!!) Now, the car came without a cat, and no AIR Pump. I want to get this thing to run 13
's. I have taken the liberty wire up the fans so the engine runs cooler about 185-190. I've disconnected the coolant flow to the TBI. I will be installing a set of headers soon. I understand the computer(chip) really runs this thing. What else do I need to do to accomplish this goal of breaking in to the 13's? A chip? If so suggestions? What else do I need to learn about these cars, suggestions, books articles' to read? School me I'm all ears

Gunner823

iTrader: (2)

Well, if you do some searching of this board in particular you will find all the information you ever wanted to know and probably alot you didn't.

but, the first thing to do is find out how far away from 13s you are. Get a baseline. There's so much that can be done to these cars and in different stages that the best thing to do is set a goal like you have done, figure out how far you are away from it and get there one mod at a time. Headers are a good start.

dbb

Okay fair enough. Now, then what did these cars run the quarter in stock form? I've seen everything from 14.2 to 15.3.

Maybe my question should have been, for those guys who are running mid to high 13's what did you do to your car.

I've learned alot about 1st gen firebirds through similar sites to this. It took years to learn. Like this one there is a goodly amout of information and mis information out there by guys who with the best intentions think they know what they are doing when in fact they do not.

I'm merely looking for the standard if you do the following if will make your car quicker.

If you run a chip, here are your options.

I've noticed alot of people have viewed this but only one has responded.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

You mention TBI, not TPI.....If it is a TBI, it isn't a GTA. Hope you weren't wanting a REAL GTA or paid extra for "GTA status".

Too often, people slap GTA badges on cars & jack up the price, for the un-knowing customer.

With a TBI, it's a 305 if it's the original engine, not a 350.

dbb

It is a TPI, my bad. l98 350, still learning the proper lingo. Real GTA, I traded by 86 Fiero SE for it. Yeah I got a smokin deal.

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

Hmm let's see full exhaust, cold air intake maybe a adjustable fuel pressure regulator for simple tunning, some sticky tires and practice should put you high 13's low 14's.

MADMAXGTA

iTrader: (1)

dont forget the 1.6 roller rockers and a stage 2 prom with a 180 thermostat

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Congrats!

Now....Are you looking to retain "legality" by the letter (smog pump, air tubes, etc.)?

Ditching a 20 yr old cat is a good idea (they flow like crap), but put a good, modern, free-flow one on. My GTA runs so clean...I mean CLEAN, yet no smog pump, no AIR tubes (they are still there, but do nothing!) My cat doesn't even have an AIR tube connection on it.

Regardless, do a cat back. I love my Magnaflow bullet muffler cat back.

Now, do you want to retain the long tube, TPI runners, or go short tubes/mini-ram/LT1 intake swap? Do want to keep the torque of the TPI, or scrifice a little for some upper rpm horsepower?

K&N of course....Cold Air Intake will help...

N3M3S1S357

Whoa whoa. Got rid of your mid-engine beauty? Haha, sorry. As you can see by my avatar, I've got myself one. 88 Formula. I plan on third-genning myself one of these days as well, just not at the sacrifice of my fiero. =) Welcome to the forum, too! I'm also soaking up as much about thirdgens as I can from these guys.

dbb

In michigan there is no smog testing legality stuff. So all the emissions can go bye bye. There is no cat, no pump. I'm already running a 180 degree thermostat. I kept the stock sensors and switch's for the fans...I did manage to wire the two together so they run simultaneously and I intalled a 50amp switch and a 30 amp fuse, so I run the fans manually. It doesn't see anything above 190. I'll keep the stock tubes.

What's the stock rocker ratio? And tell me more about a stage 2 prom. I've been reading about guys burning their own chips...

I've been racing since I was 17...I'm 40 now. This isn't my first rodeo.

I'm looking for a nice drive that will get me into the mid-high 13's. Is this a realistic goal for this motor and a 3.27 gear?

Is there a cold air intake for an 87? I've seen them for 88's on up. But nothing for pre 88.
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I traded my 86, had really, really bad cancer. I didn't mention my 87 Fiero GT now did I? I'm keeping the 87 Fiero.

dbb

What about those air foils, are they worth it?

N3M3S1S357

I'm guessing it had the good ol' fashion "Where have my trunk corners gone?" Fiero cancer? Thank god mine is perfect with no rust at all anywhere underneath. And you can't go wrong with the GT body, but you can't get any better than the 88 suspension.

I also haven't seen anything pre-88 as far as CAI goes. My buddy has a '87 GTA(which is why I joined here to get help as we work on it), and we haven't been able to come up with anything. I know that for my mustang the problem was that 87 and below were still running speed-density for the computer which didn't work out as well with mods as MAF does. But then again, I'm certainly no pro so someone can definately correct me. =\

N3M3S1S357

As far as Air-Foils.. Completely aesthetic. Some like the looks of them, but that's about all the use of them is.

dbb

I meant the ones that go on the inside of the TPI to smooth out the airflow.
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Trunk corners, cradle frame gone, swiss cheese, the battery nearly fell right out of the car onto the wheel. Had to have the right rear A arm welded back onto the frame...what was left of it.

N3M3S1S357

You're better off spending your money on beer, still. At least then you might get a buzz for a little while. I think they're useless. One of those "placebo effect" modifications. But give it a shot if you really want. I believe they're cheap.

MADMAXGTA

iTrader: (1)

I got this intake off ebay,youll also need a 88 or 89 air tube,ditch the box style.
the stock ratio is 1.5,stamped.
jet stage 2,explains it in a nut shell.
http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/de...J2018905S.html
also check out the prom section here
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-prom/

welcome to 3rdgen.

kanmudhog

iTrader: (4)

Peanut cam , vortec heads , porting , low restriction exhaust , wide band o2 , Moats web site is worth a visit , weight reduction is always good , replace injectors , upgrade ignition , shift kit , swap rear end ( 89 - 92 bigger brakes ) , sub frame connectors , strut tower brace , wonder bar , Quality shocks and struts . Just a quick list of some quality reading .

JulieGTA

If you don't want to get into the motor...

I did these things above; PLUS custom headers (dyno dons,) ported (not siamesed yet) edelbrock runners and I forget what intake manifold...
on the stock motor, heads & cam, rear, and easily got in the 13.90s. (stock ran 14.50's)
No weight reductions, everything functional; automatic, CA smog legal.

(If you want to get into theory, there are different combinations of runners, intakes, heads, etc; you could go ram air.)

You need headers of course, that's the most noticeable improvement!
A good exhaust that isnt just smushed together.
A custom computer chip was helpful; (maybe not necessary for small mods?)
Somebody who knows what they're doing!!!
Just because something's good for "small block chevy" doesn't mean it's the best thing.

(Also this took place over about 3 yrs, nothing is cheap!)

I don't have an air foil, or even a cold air, just unbolt it at the track & live dangerously.

P.S. has anyone tried putting a TPI in a Fiero?

N3M3S1S357

The entire motor? Yeah, there are a lot of successfully swapped TPI 305's and 350's in Fieros out there. Essentially you name it, its been done in a fiero. The only problem they have is stress on the transaxle, which in stock form typically can't handle the torque. Especially the crappy 3spd auto. It's good for running low 13's in the quarter in the Fiero with a lightly modded TPI. I'd personally rather do a 3800 Series III swap w/ the 4T65E tranny. Pretty much good for mid-12's out of the box with no work. Fun little cars. =D Sorry to ramble on so long, haha.

Gunner823

iTrader: (2)

If I recall, there were some tests done on the CFM flow of the stock throttlebody with and without airfoils, with them it did increase flow by decreasing turbulance. Considering that the newer and aftermarket dual-blade TBs like ours all had a "foil" built in to the center, it's worth the 20 bucks or so to pick one up in my opinion.

In any case...just as an FYI, I've got heads, cam, ported base, SLP runners, headers, 4" exhaust and 2400 stall. No emissions equipment whatsoever. Runs 12.80s at 104-106mph on drag radials, and that's with 500 miles on the new build. Stock compression ratio too.

JulieGTA

(Sorry to hijack the topic, the fierro)
That goes along with what I heard, do it to a manual...

Thinking of different applications for TPI, now that I've bothered to learn about it...

N/M Can't get away with much in CA anyways...

dbb

Yeah they've put 3.4's, various small block chevy's, all kinds of v-6's, 3.8's, Northstars, quad 4's you name it, it's been in a Fiero.

Soooo, I guess I can get into the 13's without messing with heads, intake, ect. I have no desire to crack this motor open. If it came to that I'd be inclined to drop an LS motor in it. Gee even a 5.3 with a cam makes sick power.
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I do appreciate the advice and help guys thanks!!!
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I do appreciate the advice and help guys thanks!!!

Steveh4263

iTrader: (1)

Why do you need the air tube from 88 or 89? Is it because of the maf sensor? What type of hp gain did you get from this? The ram air is the best? Expensive though? I'm still newbie to all this as well.

MADMAXGTA

iTrader: (1)

Idk about h.p. cause i have not dyno tested my whip,but it sure does make it sound good! and you will feel it a little.
you got the box style intake,so i dont think this intake tube will fit on that,thats why youll need to get the 88-89 elbow,from the throttle body to the maf.
ram air you mean the ram air hood and airbox? yeah it may be the best,but i dont think your engine really needs all that,although it would look cool has hell,Im considering getting a fiberglass ramair hood has well,just because my hood has a few small dings in it
post a pic of your air box and ill tell you whats up.

80schild

iTrader: (5)

The 88-89's have the flexible snorkle from the throttle body. The 87's have that box looking part that covers the MAF. Somebody had already changed all of mine out when I bought my car.

Steveh4263

iTrader: (1)

Ok here is a picture of the airbox

MADMAXGTA

iTrader: (1)

yea ,ditch the box get the 88-89 set up.I recently installed a wonderbar and tubular trailing arms,it worked wonders for my steering responce and rigidity!got it all for around 150.00 for www.lmperformance.com definatly a must have upgrade

Steveh4263

iTrader: (1)

Could I still use the MAF sensor from my 87 GTA or would I have to get a 88 or 89 MAF Sensor for a 88 or 89 GTA?

80schild

iTrader: (5)

I think it's the same.

FNFAL308

iTrader: (1)

at the risk of getting .

If I didn't have to pass emissions I'd yank the TPI and drop a BIG holley DF/DP/MS, victor jr intake, flattops, change cam, 1.5 roller rockers, msd ignition. Change gears to 3.73. etc, etc.

You said you were old school, so go back to what works. Just do it with a roller block!

Point is, get rid of the TPI if you can legally. Sell it or trade it for a carb. And for those that will argue for keeping it, look at the cars running the 1/4 mile. The faster ones don't have a stock chevy fuel injection. To upgrade your stock TPI system to go fast(er) will cost more and be MUCH more pain than going carb.

Are you set up to burn chips? No? Then get ready to pay. Need more air flow? Of course, then throw away the intake, runners, plenum and upgrade. Oh wait, burn another chip. Change cam? Tune and burn. Of course if you do all the mods at once you tune and burn once. But don't make major mods after.

Maintenance. Missing? Hell what can it be? Do a search on here for engine miss and see what you get. Not like a basic carb engine. Won't start? do a search, etc.

Carb? Getting Fuel, Getting spark? Start it up!

All of the above is MHO.

Disclaimer: I have a TPI and cannot get rid of it due to emmissions. Everything is about new with a 1000 miles on it and I would get rid of it tomorrow if I could. AND it runs great.

Steveh4263

iTrader: (1)

Anybody know for sure if it is the same?

FormulaL98

The MAS is the same between your 87 and those installed on the 88's and newer. However id suggest either making up your own cold air or investing in a SLP set-up (my slp was worth .3 in the 1/4 on a stock L98) the ebay intakes probably do sound good, but all they do is suck hot air. As for air foils, pass on that, they dont do enough to make any difference in performance. Sure they increase the cfm in testing however i installed a TPIS air foil while at the track and gained nothing. A good after-cat and slp's cold air set up dropped my car from 14.7 (stock) to 14.3 consistantly.

tenpin842

bla......spend the $$ and buy the SLP air induction system!
Plus it looks a lot nicer.
I'm all about the car shows. So its all about the looks for me.

80schild

iTrader: (5)

The only thing about that is you have to relocate the purge canister. Whoever had my car ripped the canister out completely and now I have fume problems. I just took my SLP box out and put in one of the ebay type filters (I don't race mine so I dont care about the 1/4 mile) .