camaro87-alex

It's me again..The guy with the carb to TPI swap project that actually went pretty well...But I have some few problems on my SES light...

I have been driven the car for a long time after the swap and the car works fine driving..But the SES light is always on and that is bothering me..The car has also very rough idle when cold....

I have had some problems with the code 32 and code 34 on the car and I have tried to fix those...I have changed every sensor that is on the car...IAC, TPS, O2, EGR-valve, EGR-solenoid, MAF burnoff relay, fuel pump relay, maf power relay...every thing is brand new...

But still I have this stupid light showing all the time...Sometimes it is not glowing but most of the time it is glowing...

Any ideas?..I also have noticed that the car is living a little bit on it's own...When engine is warm and in PARK...the idle is perfect...about 800RPM... It could stay on 800 for a long time and suddenly just increase to about 1500RPM and slow down again...Another thing is that when I have driven the car for a while...And is going to slow down..The car need's a lot of braking to slow down...And when I have completely stopped the car I try to put in PARK and RPM increases to about 1500-2000RPM and slows slowly down...

Could this be something with the fuel lines?...That my return line is to small mayby??..so there are to much fuel in the rails that has to return or be burned up???

I need every advice I can get....

pandin

What codes are you getting now? and when does the ses lite come on. What is happening right before the lite comes on is where the trouble is.

There are a lot of things that can mess with the idle not only bad parts but incorrectly installed/adjusted parts. I have even had "new" parts be bad.

I don't know Norwegian so I hope this English makes sense after the translation.

camaro87-alex

Thanks for the reply...

I am getting no codes right now actually...But the SES light is always showing..I have changed out all the EGR parts also so it could not be some of them...

Another thing is my transmission is very affected by the rough and unstable RPM...When I have drove the car for just a few miles the car is holding the RPM steady even if I let my foot go off the gas pedal..The car does not decelerate on flat road...I have to hit the brakes...In other words..The RPM is a little high if I just stop the car and put gear in PARK, but will slow down to normal RPM after a few seconds...

pandin

Have you tied disconnecting the battery, to clear the SES lite?

What ECM and Eprom are you running now?

Do you have any data logging done or made changes to your Eprom?

camaro87-alex

Yes...I have tried clearing the codes..Many times also...
I am running a stock 1988 305 TPI PROM with the original ECM..

All the sensors and relays should be brand new...The only thing that was bought used of the sensors was the MAF sensor but that sensor was tested and worked good...Looks very nice also...

I was thinking that this could have something to do with the EGR system but now all those parts are replaced except the EGR temperature switch on the EGR valve..those are of course discontinued....

darbysan

The EGR Temp Sensor is still available. Just bought one for my conversion at autopartswarehouse.com, part number 14087416, although I am having trouble seeing it now on their website. Also seems to be available from http://pacvette.com/store/store.pl?part=14087416 for $13.95. You can also Google part numbe W0133-1689124. This seems to be the Delphi replacement part number.

Don't think this is your problem, though.

HTH

pandin

With my egr disconnected (temp sensor wire broke) the SES lite would activate after 10 min of 55 mph driving from a cold start. On restart the code would be cleared and again set after warm up.

When you turn the key on does the SES lite come on and then go out on engine start or does it just stay on?

camaro87-alex

I am going to check this today...But I think the light is showing when I put the key to ON...When I start the engine the light just keep glowing...

darbysan

One of the documents I got when doing my swap indicated that I could "ground" the green wire that leads to the EGR Temp Switch if I was deleting the EGR Function. You might try this as a diagnostic step.

camaro87-alex

thanks alot..I will try this today..
Then I could check if the SES light have something to do with the EGR system, witch I don't think it has anymore...

pandin

Under line is mine, hope this helps.


I have the checksum disabled because the Prominator, I use, does it's own. Hence no blink, but the light goes out at engine start.

camaro87-alex

Today I have tested the SES light again...It seems like when I turn key to ON (engine off) the SES light blink very quickly....
Isn't that wrong??...I just remember that the SES light was on for about 2-3 seconds when I had the carbed engine...

When I turn key further to start the engine the SEs light comes on at once, and it is glowing all the time...Haven't seen that light off for a long time when driving...anyone got more tips?...could this be something about the ECM or the PROM???

pandin

At key on engine off, does the SES lite flash just once or is it, blinking very fast and continuously?

camaro87-alex

Just one QUICK flash....You have to study the light, turn the key on, and then a very quick blink is coming...Just one blink....

pandin

One blink is good.

The next look is for any codes, if the SES light is on then there should be a code to trigger it.

camaro87-alex

No codes...Only code 12 all the time...I have been driving for a long time also..SES is always on, but no trouble codes...

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

Did you remove the light module and hook the yellow wire direct to the ECM on the correct port? The wire should be brown/white.

camaro87-alex

I haven't done anything with the SES light...because the SES worked perfect when I had carburettor system.

And the wires are matching at the C207 connector....

camaro87-alex

And another thing I forgot to mention....
The SES light have been working earlier even with the TPI system mounted. Because I have had a few codes from the ECM such as code 32, 33, 22.

But now the ECM doesn't throw any codes at all...The SES light is just glowing all the time...

camaro87-alex

Today I have done a big check but still my engine is confusing me...
I will explain everything I have checked...

When I tried to start the car this morning the SES light was giving one quick blink as usual and I start the engine and light comes on and stays there..

The engine is not idling perfectly but ok enough....

I tried something new today...I tried to disconnect the MAF sensor while the engine was running, and suddenly the SES light went off...I just disconnected the MAF sensor and connected it back again..The RPM of the car raised a lot and went back again...After that I tried to check for some codes...Code 33 was showing. That is at the MAF sensor. I have done every test that is possible to do with the MAF sensor...I disconnected the maf sensor and checked every wire at the harness connector..And everything seems right there...

I disconnected the MAF sensor from the engine and was testing that sensor to. With 12V supply the sensor is showing about 0.35 volts and varying a little...I use my mouth to blow through the sensor and the sensor is increasing as it should do... I also try to tap the electrical "box" at the sensor but no dramastic respons..Still the same volts...This means that the MAF sensor is ok, so I have connected it back to the car....

SES light comes on again and still have the same problem...
I have checked my TPS sensor..the volts are perfect 0.56volts...

I have checked the IAC valve...with that disconnected and the RPM is fine..

I have replaced all the other sensors...Oxygen, MAT, Coolant temp ++.

The EGR valve is new...EGR solenoid is new..Every vacuum hose is connected and is fitting tight....

I changed all the spark plugs today....

But still I have the same problem...SES light on...And the car have a strange way to act when driving at slow speed....

If I am driving about 50MPH and is going to slow down..I let go of the gas pedal but car is not slowing down...The car is staying in 50MPH until the road is climbing a little bit more or I hit the brakes...


Does anybody have a clue??...Could this be something with the ECM and the PROM????

pandin

Okay I will try the help without getting too technical.

Pull a spark plug or two and tell/show what they look like. Look at plug wires for bad spots, do this in the dark and mist with water to check.

Then unplug the MAF wire connector (keep the connector and wires out of the way of the moving belt).

Then start to start the car. Try this when the engine is cold. If this works then just let the car warm up to normal temps. Keep track of any odd behavior. If it sets a code, take note of when and what the engine was doing when set (a data log would be nice but just taking notes will work).

If it won't start cold, then rehook the MAF connector/wire and warm the car up.

After the car is warmed up and the MAF connector is undone, note if the idle is better or worse then with the MAF wires connected and any codes. It should be drivable with no MAF (a MAF code and SES light would be normal with unhooked MAF).

Go for a short drive up to 55 mph and note how the engine runs. Idle, off idle, cruise, are the area's to look at not WOT.

Let us know what is what.

Slow down and relax, we will walk you through this one step at a time.

You have other issues (high idle) that may or may not be related to the SES light.

For quick checks a known good MAF and ECM swap would be nice.

camaro87-alex

Okay...The spark plugs doesnt seem bad at all..They are all dry with no Oil deposits and they don't have any damage at all if you ask me...They should be about 2 years old now, but not to many miles...mayby around 5-6K miles..

Here are some pictures:









I haven't got time to test the car yet without the MAF sensor connected..A lot of work theese days...But I will try to do that tomorrow..(It's evening now in Norway

But I have tested the car with the MAF disconnected at idle...Warm engine.
When I unplug the MAF sensor the RPM raises a little bit but goes back to normal one second after...The idle is not any better I think with the MAF sensor disconnected....I haven't tried to drive the car with the MAF disconnected...

If I only had a extra ECM that I could swap to...But then I have to order from US...Like I said..I live in Norway and parts are hard to find here..

camaro87-alex

Now I have taken the Car out for a test drive again with the MAF sensor disconnected..

I started out this morning and disconnected the MAF sensor...Started the engine cold and idling was rough...Actually it was stalling if I didn't hit the gas pedal a little but after a minute it was okay...

No SES light at all and I just let the engine get warm at idle speed...
Then I took the car out for a test drive and it was a little bit different to drive the car..

The car didn't have those HIGH RPM periods after driving a few miles...And if I am driving in about 40mph and let off the gas pedal the car is actually decelerating...But I notice some rough RPM though....

It is difficult to tell if the car is better or worse with the MAF disconnected.
No codes at all after driving for a couple of miles...SES light was not glowing at all on that trip...

So, what is the conclusion to this?...Could it actually be the MAF sensor?..Even though I have tested the sensor and it looks fine...

Could this be something with the ECM or the PROM???

camaro87-alex

Please answer me this...

I don't have a hose between the Crancase vent on passenger side valve cover, to the throttle body. They are just open both of them.

Could this affect my idle and the ECM readings of the MAF sensor?

darbysan

The one on the passenger side just provides fresh air, so it shouldn't make a great difference. The one on the Driver's side is important. If you have not blocked the hole on the drivers side of the plenum where the PCV hose attaches, then you have a huge air leak. I would highly recommend you hook up both of these, and include the PCV valve. The PCV system clears fumes out of the cranckcase. If you don't do this, your oil can become acidic and eventually you will end up with internal damage. You can use a breather cap on the pasenger side if youwant, but the PCV valve is a controlled vacumn leak, and is important.

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

I'm pretty sure the systems operate differently, so you need to connect the SES light wire without the light module just to be on the safe side.

darbysan

If you have the light driver module, you will need to make this change. While the wiring at C207 is the same, the way it works is different. The Light Module is probabaly located above the Glove Box. It is a small PCB in a small holder wired into the IP harness, between the ECM and the Dash. Size is about 3" long, 1" wide. Find it and pull the PCB out ( save for later). Find the White/Dk Grn and Yellow wires. Splice them together ( I used a ScotchLok Quick Connect, but you can just cut them and splice). You are Done.

If your car does not have the Light Driver Module, then you may have a bad MEMCAL. I know this, because yesteday I programmed a new chip ( did it wrong) and the SES light came on and stayed on. Car ran ( probably in Limp Home mode). Reprogrammed the chip, and the light went away.

HTH

camaro87-alex

I have a new PCV valve and a hose from the intake manifold attached to it so the PCV system is connected right. The only thing that is not connected is a hose between the TB that breads freesh air to the vent...

camaro87-alex

I am not sure if I have a driver light module but I guess I don't have. What is excacly a driver light module??..What do you mean?...Sorry, because my english is not very good. I am from Norway so that is not my main language.


Is that PCB you are talking about blue color??..Light blue?..Because when I was doing the swap I pulled all the dash parts out of the car so it was just the firewall and wiring harness left. Then I saw a light blue box on the wiring harness between the ECM and the drivers side, somewhere behind the heater controls...I didn't know what this box was for so I just leaved it alone...

I have been thinking of a bad memcal because now I have done a few tests on the MAF sensor also. I have a tester that provides power to the + and - sides of the connector and a DC voltmeter that shows the voltage on the signal cable from the MAF sensor. and the voltage readings a stable and still stable if I hit the MAF sensor with a screwdriver.
I try to blow through the MAF sensor and the voltage increases and decreases as it should be.

I have also been doing some testing at the MAF sensor wire connector at the wiring harness. And the maf sensor is getting 12 volts and the ground is good. An the burn off signals and other signals are perfect as described in the diagnostic manuals for the system...

darbysan

The light blue box is very likely the Light Driver Module. You can see in the attached picture how I spliced the two wires together. You can just pull the PCB out of the holder and turn it arround. Then you will know where it is if you ever need to convert back.

camaro87-alex

Ok..I will try to do this...What is excacly the light module doing?..I mean it's function??

darbysan

The light module provides power to the SES on Carb'd engines, based on a signal from the ECM. On TPI engines, power comes direct from the ECM. Splicing the two wires together at the light module is basically just completing the circuit from the ECM, through C207, to the SES light.

pandin

Check this out:

At A5 SES light

Key on 0 volts, that would be a light on condition and that means it is ground applied.

Engine run 13.9 Vdc, this would be a light off condition so the ground is removed and you are reading the Battery volts through the light bulb, removing the bulb should remove the 13.9 volts.

Most dash lights are ground applied with a common battery power, when the dash power goes out, all the lights go out. This way they can have just one dash fuse, and a dash wire short doesn't fry the computer power, it just lights the light.

camaro87-alex

Thanks for that diagram pandin. I will try to do some voltage measuring today to see if I can find out something.
If I have to change something on the light driver module I will have to remove all the dashboard parts again but that is no problem..



Ok, I know I have a driver light module behind the dashboard. I remember I saw a light blue bokx just like the one you attached to your post.
But since my ECM have shown codes like code 33 and code 22 earlier after the TPI swap. Isn't my SES light correct wired up then?
I mean. Should I get the code 12 when I ground the ALDL if the wires are not correct at the light driver module?

camaro87-alex

Or am I wrong?...I know I have that light driver module, so do I need to take out my dash board again to splice those wires?..

darbysan

I looked at the wiring diagram for an '86 camaro (carb'd), and it shows the Light Driver module, as you have confirmed. If it is difficult to get to, you might be able to cut and splice into the Yellow wire closer to the dash board.
I have heard some folks say they just spliced into the yellow wire at the ALDL connector( Pin E on carb'd cars). You could try running the connection directly from Pin C (Brn/Wht on ECM Side; Wht / Dk Grn on IP Side)of Connector 207 ( IP harness Connector) directly to the ALDL Pin E. This should bypass the Light Driver Module as far as an input signal is concerned. I don't know if the LD module will send a signal to the SES light because of this or not, but this would be an easy test and you would not have to pull your dash apart. If it does, then you can make the fix more permanent by splicing at the LD module, or just splicing in behind the ALDL connector..

camaro87-alex

Hi there again...

sorry for my slow response here but I have had a lot of work to do in the last days so I haven't been looking at my car for a couple of days.

Today i found the light driver module as you said Darbysan.
There was 2 yellow wires at the same port. 1 white/grn. 1 black and one pink/blk.

I tried to splice one of the yellow wires with the white and green wire.

Now the SES light was glowing all the time. And if I tried to ground ALDL the SES light was glowing weakly and was blinking brighter if you now what I mean.

So I guess this was the wrong yellow cable...

Then I tried to cut out that yellow cable and splice the other yellow cable, and wollaaa. My light is working. When I now turn ignition key to ON the light starts glowing.

When I turn key to START the light glows a second or two and then it goes off.... Light stays off when engine idling...

And now my Volt indicator at the gauge panel actually shows more voltage than before..And the engine is not having those high RPM's as before.

How come this can affect so much?...

I still have problems with driving at slow speeds but I think that could be something else....

darbysan

No clue as to why it is driving better, but it sounds like you are making progress. Maybe it was somehow throwing the ECM into Limp Home mode? Sorry about the two yellow wires. When I looked at the wiring diagram, it shows them spliced together. One of them goes to the ALDL, and the other to the bulb. Looks like you found the right one.

I know I mentioned it, but you should pull the PCB out of the Light Driver Module as part of this fix. I just turned mine around and stuck it back in with some tape to hold in place, in case I ever needed to us in the future. You probably did this- just a reminder.

camaro87-alex

Yes I was thinking about the same. Limp mode could posibly be that..

Should I take out the PCB you say?..I know you said it earlier on this thread but I have just forgotten it...Is it necessary or could I just leave it like it is??

darbysan

The PCB is still getting Power, and if you have not completly cut the Grn/Wht wire, it is still getting a signal from the ECM, although it may be the wrong signal. If you have not completly cut both Yellow wires and the Grn/Wht wire, then that signal and power can find it's way to the SES light, and you may get confusing signals. If you cut the wires and spliced them together, then you are fine. If not, then there is a risk of something strange coming through the SES light. Rather than cutting and splicing the wires together, I just removed the PCB. Either way is fine, but I would be concerned if you have a combination.