I would like to upgrade the TPI setup I have, but do it on a budget and without messing with the computer stuff. My plan was to port my stock intake manifold and remove the egr wall in my plenum. My question is... is there any cams or heads I can install that won't break the bank and give a decent boost in power without modding anything in the computer? Oh, I plan on getting headers and a 3" catback too.

The reason I don't want to mess with the computer is because it costs a lot to get a chip made and I've heard that they aren't even that great anyway. I keep hearing that the proper way to do it is to burn your own chips. Problem here is that I don't think I would have the patience to learn all that stuff and I still have to spend even more money on all the chip burning equipment.

Is there anything I can do? I keep hearing the LT4 hotcam and the ZZ4 cam come up when people mention upgrades, but would this fit what I'm looking for and would they be ok in a 305? As far as heads go, I would love to swap them to aluminum but I'm afraid of the extra cost. Would it be worth porting my stock heads, or is there a cheaper and more powerful alternative? Main reason I'm looking into all this is because my heads are starting to burn oil so I figured why not upgrade everything while I'm in there. If I do upgrade this stuff, would I need an adjustable feul pressure regulator to keep up with everything? If what I'm asking is even possible, what kind of power do you think could be made and how much do you think it would all cost? I keep seeing the AFPR for ~$50 and the cams I mentioned for ~$100, but what about the heads?

Mike

 

i guess an easier question would be what are you trying to do? drag car.. rally car.. just looking to kick the power up a notch... and whats your budget?

best upgrade you can do to get immediate results is your exhaust... ditch the manifolds, get some good headers, a 3" outlet y pipe, etc. also, get a better flowing cold air intake done.. that willl help too.

 

I am guessing he is into auto-x... I would look into the Crane 2032 cam. It is very mild and should give you a decent boost. I may be getting a bigger cam around christmas time, so If you are interested in my old cam, it only has 16k on it.

 

Yeah I'll look into that cam. Would it work on the stock tune? How does it relate to the LT1 or the ZZ4 cam?

I've been doing some more searching and it seems like the best setup would be a ZZ9 cam and the aluminum L89 Corvette heads with some port work, screw in studs, 1.6 roller rockers, and the valve springs to match a ZZ9 cam. Does this seem right? How much do you think a setup like that would cost if I do the port work myself?

During my recent search fiasco, I kept reading that the early MAF cars have a stock tune that is pretty forgiving. Would I fall into the category of "early MAF cars?" I've also been reading that to use the vette heads, I also need the vette intake manifold and I have to drill some holes or and reroute some hoses so the EGR still works. How much of a hassle is this, or does it just sound harder then it is? Would I still be able to run 3rd gen headers with the vette heads or would I also need the vette headers?

I guess that is all my questions for now.
Mike

 

1. Make sure everything is running the way it should now.

2. Gut air boxes (no need to spend money on aftermarket for camaro cold air)

3. Exhaust (Headers, high-flow cat, cat back)

4. Port TPI (Do a search, plenty of people have done it)

5. Remove heads and port/recondition them (Search head porting and sitting bull)

6. Pick a mild cam that will work with your stock computer and stock converter. I am of the unstanding that a little too small is better than too big as far as street driving goes.

Honestly, you need to not write off at least some basic prom tuning if you plan to dump money into this thing, the stuff doesn't cost that much.

 

1. Other then burning oil, everything is good to go. I figured I would just upgrade everything while I'm rebuilding the heads.

2. Already gutted the air box and I plan on making those "ram air" boxes like Hawk sells.

3. I do plan on getting headers and a 3" cat back but how much is a high flow cat? I'll have to look into that. My original plan was to just run an electislc cutout where the cat would be.

4. I do have a spare intake manifold and plenum to port so I can still drive my car in the mean time. Is there a certain gasket I should port match everything too? The 1205? keeps coming to mind. Is that right?

5. I remember reading the thread sitting bull started. I'll have to go back and look it up. Is it worth porting my stock heads or can i get much better results from something like the aluminum heads from a corvette for not much more $$?

6. Honestly, I don't know what the stock tune can handle or what a mild cam is, that's why I'm asking. I'm also not sure what the stock stall is. If I change the stall would stuff in the computer have to be changed?

I'm not good with computers and writing code. That and for the other reasons I mentioned I would really like to avoid it. If I must do this I wouldn't even know where to start other then read the stickies on the prom board.

 

If you are thinking cutout, I went that route and am happy. When I bought my car it had basically new stock exhaust. I put some headmen shorties and y-pipe. I then cut the flange off the stock y-pipe so it could mate easily to the stock converter, and had a wing nut type cutout welded in between the old flange and new y-pipe that dumps beneath the passanger side door. I only need it off at the track so it works for me.

For gaskets, I have been told that tpis big mouth gaskets are good. Really, you just need some meat on them, so you can cut them wider after porting.

As for a cam goes, a good mild one from what ai have heard is the LT1 cam, they can be found for cheap too. There are a bunch of cams from comp cams too, just go to their web site and download the catalog. They have a bunch of cams designed to work with TPI computers.

Everyone has a different definition of cheep, but I can't see how getting vette heads would be cheaper unless you had to got a ton of work done to the iron ones but not the aluminum ones (Aluminum ones need work too). Your lower intake will not work withe vette heads either.

 

^^^^All that and then a STALLLL!!!

.5 off E.T. in the 1/4 & 2-3mph increase in traps, on a stock car.

 

Or dump the auto all together while it still works (and you can sell it for a few hundred bucks) and plop in a T5.

best mod I ever did.

 

I was thinking about a stall when I first bought the car but now I'm not sure if that would be a good thing to do since I do a lot of autocrossing. If I do swap in a different stall it would probably be next winter and then I would do a trans-go shift kit at the same time.

 

All the more reason to swap in a manual!

 

If your looking to install a t5...don't expect to build a fast motor (no offense to those that run one)....but they only came in 305 cars for a reason...weak....I believe the rating on the WC T5 is somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 ft.lbs. max of torque..(stock 350TPI puts around 345 to the ground).

As far as the computer work goes...it's relatively easy....and not that expensive. I did all my work through pcmforless.com. I believe like $200 or somewhere around that amount I had a chiped burned. And in the future if you need updates (like new heads/cams, etc.)they do a re-burn chip of $57 shipped. I ran cheap aluminum heads, a holley stealth ram, some slightly bigger injectors, open exhaust, and a small crane cam on a stock chip for a while and it worked great (worked better with reburned chip but it is for sure driveable and raceable).
A matter of fact, on my new motor I ran it a week or two with the factory chip in it (was waiting on upgraded chip), I ran stock timing and had to turn fuel pressure down a bit, but definetly driveable.

I ran mid 14's 1/4 mile stock, a 13.6-13.8 on the basic upgraded motor (intake, headers, small cam, chip, cheap heads) everything else stock.
Run in 12's now.......this is all at 3000' altitude.
It cost the same for a small cam as it does for a little bigger cam...so spend money wisely, and it will go far.

 

also, porting stock heads not worth the money/time wasted....get a good name brand head, some places even make aftermarket iron heads that are better but cheaper. your cam in you car might be a roller cam (I believe it is but can't remember), if so you need a roller cam, going to run more like $300 new, not $100. Don't forget to add cost for gaskets, timing chain, oil, coolant, etc.
Porting your stock intake will help, but try to find a used aftermarket like a TPIS or holley stealth ram.....also a bigger throttle body 52mm. Look for used stuff online that can save you money, or get new on ebay sometimes cheaper.

 

Bah.. the T5 got a bad rap. Sure if you run the ***** out of it, and power shift you will frag it, but same goes for the 700r4 (or a 10 bolt rear) if you get a stall and leave off a trans brake.

Plenty of 5.0L mustang guys have gotten into the 12s w/ a T5. You just have to be nice to it. Or for the cost of a built 700r4, you could have a tremec TKO, or a T56.

 

The ford 5spd is much better than GMs 5spd. Also, the 5.0 isn't as torquey as 5.0 TPI (220 to the wheels vs the Lb9 270 or so, not even counting the L98s 300+). Not to mention the Foxbody is a few hundred pounds lighter helps a bit as well.

 

I was going to say us a tremec.....expensive...that's my next upgrade. different case in the mustangs......it's not the internals that blow up the t5 (or the 10bolt for that matter) it's the flex in the case that mis-aligns everything.....t-56 are okay, but burn syncros out easily. I think he said he was auto-x or road racing, lots of shifting.

 

 

I guess you make good points... Is this pcmforless place have stuff like the hypertech chips I keep reading bad things about? Is there also a limit in how long you have before they change the price of a reburnt chip? I'm starting college in a month or so, so I'll be short on cash for the next few years. That is why I want to get a decent motor built before the tuition has to get payed.

I know the cheapest way to go faster is to take weight off the car and that is why i'll be taking ~200 pounds off the car in the next couple months. If the rule of thumb is in fact 1 tenth in the 1/4 mile for every 100 pounds, then that will be 2 tenths right there. I guess for now I want to be able to run mid 13's. Is that going to be possible?

 

pcmforless is NOT crappy hypertech chip....they are custom burned. correction on you weights if I may...it doesn't alway work out like that at track...try taking someone weighing 200lbs in you car and then just you and run down the track (not .2 difference usually if your consistant.)
This is what I did to get into 13's a while back.
holley stealth ram intake, small comp cam (I think .450 lift 214dur), MSD ignition, headers, cat-back exhaust, chip, gutted air box, throttle body by-pass mod, good cap/rotor/wires, 1.5 roller rockers, and everything else was stock I believe. my car was a '91 350 tpi with auto and 3.23 gears.

 

t56 is the way to go no doubt.

 

But for same or less cost of swapping in t56 you could run a tko-500 or tko-600, brand new, warranty, with everything to intall brand new (clutch, pedals, driveline if you want, etc. etc.) and have a lot stronger trans. I've done the research....seen to many t56 not handle hard racing conditions (don't get me wrong, I like them), but would take a tremec over a 56 any day of week

 

Are you talking about having a shop do it or having himself do it? Cause tranny swaps from autos to manuals are expensive.

 

Ok ok, they are both good transmissions, but I myself favor the TKO line.

Anyway... My 700r4 will probably stay for a while. It shifts great and even chirps the tires for the 1-2 change. I'm happy with it so I will probably keep it until it blows. So, back on topic.

I don't want to buy brand new heads to port because this will be my first time ever doing port work. That's why I want to do this on something relitivly cheap. Maybe down the road I'll do it again on some $800 heads or something, but not any time soon. This is why I was wondering if I should sell the stock intake manifold I have now and get the aluminum vette heads and the matching intake manifold. I figure the vette heads must flow more right from the start, plus they are way lighter and will be a little better for cooling. I've read that they can be found anywhere from $200 to $400, but how much is the intake manifold? Is it similar to what the stock one is from a camaro/firebird? I've also read that they don't have any way of running an EGR but I suppose I can get that removed in a new chip.

 

Yes you can remove EGR with a reprogrammed chip, also if you dont' get a new chip...it will just kick on your check engine light (for EGR failure) and not affect driveability. The intake manifold setup on the corvette and camaro are exactly the same.....yes the heads will flow better, not as good as aftermarket ones, but better than what you have.....The only real problem there is your running a 305 and corvette's are all 350's....you might need to research the threads about swapping from one to another....I have never personally done it, but I think it is NOT a good idea.

 

I don't plan on removing the EGR until I ever get a custom chip made. I don't want any codes to make the light turn on because then I will always disregard it and what if there actually is something wrong with the motor one day? I won't know it.

Yeah I know I should just spend the money and get some good name brand heads but my budget won't allow that and GM has got to be one of the biggest name brands out there! (yeah I know what you mean)

I think if I use the vette heads and manifold I also have to use the vette fuel rail. I'm not sure though, I could be wrong.

 

There's no "cheap" way to make reliable power, not on any car. You just have to figure out what you want and then shop around. I am slowly learning prom burning. The best way is to just dive into it and learn that way, in my opinion. Practice on your crappy engine, so you can hone your skills for when your engine is built up the way you want.

 

Are you 100% sure on that? I know they will not bolt up due to bolt alignment issues, and shifter angle, but everything I have seen or read points to them being fairly equal as far as strength goes. (300 lb/ft rating for early 90's, and I know there are plenty of cars doing a lot more then that)

I am not saying that the t5 is strong, I am just saying that it would be adequate on a budget, mild 350 as long as you didn't beat the $hit out of it.

 

The check engine light would only come off if holding steady speed on freeway after car is warm.....but are you running a 305???

 

I'm not worried about the egr anymore. I know what I'll be doing with that

You just figured out I have a 305?? I don't have the 350 and if I do swap motors, I want a 400SBC... but that's for another thread a few years from now.

 

I was just making sure it was a 305 not a 350....better safe to ask than assume...anyway the corvette 350 heads will NOT work on a 305...
well they will bolt up....but the compression difference will gain you no power what so ever...

 

What are you talking about? The vette aluminum heads are 58cc, same as 305 iron heads.

 

I stand corrected....I was thinking of 64cc normal chamber heads.....not the 58cc off a vette.....sorry

 

The SMURF is right... Based on what I've found they will work just fine. However, I don't think I'll be using the vette heads any more. Based on the flow numbers I've found, the stock 305 heads (416/081) have pretty much the same intake flow as the vette heads but the exhaust flow is a little less. Is this that big of a deal since it will only be on a 305, or would the headers help move things along so it won't be anything to worry about? Also would I need a new tune if I just port the stock intake an heads and throw some headers and a catback at it and leave the EGR and cam alone? How much power do you think I could get by just doing that? Keeping in mind I know nothing about cam specs and what the numbers mean, couldn't I just use a longer duration exhaust lobe to make up for the low exhaust flow numbers of the stock heads? Or would that cause too much overlap?