Hey guys,
I have a 85 z28 Camaro with a TPI 305 MAF.
So thinking of getting the Lunati Voodoo 60101 Cam.
http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1982&gid=287
Is this a good choice?
Also will my idle be lopey or rough with this cam? I actually want a very lopey or rough idle!
I can't find any videos or sound clips.
Any opinions appreciated!
Thanks!

So does every new owner.
Only problem is the cams that make the sound you " want" don't work with computers very well

The Lunati is a good cam and should work fine but you are probably going to need some tuning to make it optimal. You have not mentioned anything about the car as far as mods and plans, which have everything to do with the cam picking process.

I also would like to know a little about your knowledge as far as these cars go if you dont mind me asking? A lumpy cam is about the worst thing you can do for performance with a stock TPI 305 or 350. This is because your car is EFI which needs a good vacuum signal to keep the computer happy and a choppy idle makes it throw fits. The ECM in your car is also the infamous 870 ECM which only operates at a 160 baud which makes tuning tricky as data samples are harder to get. The bits you do get are also not that many which makes it harder to tune.

I also have an 85 Z28... the one in my avatar and I can tell you right now the cam thats in it is a nice piece for stock. I would think about the basics before even worrying about the cam if you have not done them already. Theres a good bit of power to be had just out of headers, y pipe, K&N's, free mods, pullies and temp. control.

BTW> None of the above is an opinion. and I am also looking at cams at the moment. Just today I have spoken with Crane, Comp Cams and Isky for the hell of it.

EDIT : Heres some specs on the cam in the car from GM.
Cam P/N 14088843 Lift Int.403 Ex.415 Int Dur.202 Ex206 LS 114.5(115/-114)

LOL - aint that about the truth.

Choose a cam that has a 112-114LSA and no bigger than a TPIS ZZ9 cam. In short any cam that range from 252-270 duration. You need the vacumn for the accessories. I had an 85 TPI Z28 and I used that cam in a 355cu and it idle fine and ran good with Dart SR Torquer ported heads. You will need a custom chip burned. It will run lean.
Try this link http://www.lunatipower.com/ProductGr...?id=261&cid=59

Not the vac
The computer has fits because the big overlap on the lumpy cams ( low LSA ) dumps raw fuel into the exhaust at idle which the computer through the O2 sensor can't read properly so it dumps even more fuel in to correct what it thinks is a lean cond resulting in so much fuel out the exh your eyes will water

Is an 85 a roller cam or flat tappet

flat tappet

Here are the things already done to my Camaro.

-The plenum has been professionally ported.
-The runners have been professionally enlarged and honed to flow about 230cfm.
-The intake base is port matched to the bigger runners.
-I have an airfoil installed on the throttle body.
-I have the Edelbrock TES. Which has the the headers and a hi flow Y pipe. -From the Y pipe back its a 3" straight pipe with no cat and a straight through Magnaflow muffler.
-All emissions stuff removed. (live in North Dakota )
-I run a 160 thermostat in the summer and a 180 when its cooler in the spring and fall.
-I have a custom made cold air intake with K&N airfilter alot like this one.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...ir-intake.html
-A B&M Stage 2 Street and Strip Shift Kit.
-New Posi with 3.23 gears for now. Will be upgrading to 3.42s.

I also burn my own chips. And ya the 870 ECM kinda blows! Your shooting in the dark with the limited data you get from logging. I really want to upgrade to the 165ECM but it looks like a big pain in the butt to do.

I know TPI doesn't get along great with overlap. That's why I chose a mild cam. This cam RPM range fits with TPI perfectly. Lunati recommends this cam to me too.

I mainly wanted to know how this cam would sound at idle, and if anyone here is running this cam.

Thanks everyone for you help!

Yes, I know thats the effect of the cam.... thats NOT what causes the issue. The overlap makes the idle fluctuate, which the 870 ECM see's through the MAF. The ECU (particularly the slow baud rate in this ECU) cannot adjust fast enough for the 02's output rendering the a/f mix useless. This is all done BECAUSE the cam is screwing with the vacuum signal (engine airflow) the MAF reads.

Sorry professor...didnt know I had to spell the whole deal out.

EDIT: I just cant get over this. You mean to tell me overlap has nothing to do with vacuum?? If you have a vette with a 383 you should know this.

Stock heads mean the Lunati is prob. best bet. As an 85 Z28 owner myself I have been looking at the Z cam and the 2040 from Crane. There's a bunch of members here, but none that I know of who have put the VooDoo Cam in a 305. If you had head work, I would opt for more lift and get the XFI260.

there is an 02 camaro at a car show i often venture to with a VERY lopy idle,
maybe a megasquirt will give you the flexibility to run a crazy cam?
though they seem to rely on MAP sensors which will be far more sensitive to the lack of vacuum than a MAF...

but i've heard the 85's stock MAF runs in pulses so if you can match up the lopes to the pulses maybe i'll work... our ecm is slow right?

I just emphasized ECU speed because it makes even less adjustments per second than the 165. :shame:

I like your idea though.. to bad it only works on paper.

Also, I would just like to point out I suggest a Crane Cam as that's what the few 305 cam swappers on this board have and they all like them. There are a few with Comp Cams... but I am not a fan of the way Comp closes the exhaust valve the way they do. Hard, and noisy. These are street cars and over all operation is the key here, not maximum power output as much as that hurts to say it. I would rather have a good overall performing cam that adds 20hp and runs quiet with a smooth-ish idle than 27hp of clattering that is harder on parts and bucks. You will never miss the 7hp.

Also, here is some camshaft faq. http://www.cis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/ecm_swap/

Bottom line is I am very interested in this topic because there are quite a few cams that will work which I can never make up my mind totally. '

Other opinions would differ
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...ome-those.html
http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=310330

If vac was the cause , how do you explain guys getting a perfect idle with big cams
by running in open loop at idle which takes the O2 sensors out of the equation?
Vac /MAF readings hasn't changed

Well im surprised no one has this cam here on third gen. It supposed to be pretty popular.

I agree. That cam has some followers on the Monte Carlo board... but they arent TPI...


Vette This word was mentioned in that article many times. High overlap cams have a lot of it.
reversion [rɪˈvɜːʃən]
n 1. a return to or towards an earlier condition, practice, or belief; act of reverting
2. the act of reversing or the state of being reversed; reversal
3. (Life Sciences & Allied Applications / Biology) Biology a. the return of individuals, organs, etc., to a more primitive condition or type
b. the reappearance of primitive characteristics in an individual or group

4. (Law) Property law a. an interest in an estate that reverts to the grantor or his heirs at the end of a period, esp at the end of the life of a grantee
b. an estate so reverting
c. the right to succeed to such an estate

5. (Business / Insurance) the benefit payable on the death of a life-insurance policyholder reversionally adv
reversionary , reversional adj



Its been that way over a century and unless you have changed something overnight, I am pretty much done arguing with someone who doesnt understand what I am saying.
The overlap in the cam causes reversion which kills the vacuum on an engine. Im not wrong. The contents you keep stating are the effects of what the cam and MAF sensor keep causing. If the 02 sensor is tricked into a lean spot, whos telling it its rich? THE MAF METER IS. Thus what I said above...

"Yes, I know thats the effect of the cam.... thats NOT what causes the issue. The overlap makes the idle fluctuate, which the 870 ECM see's through the MAF. The ECU (particularly the slow baud rate in this ECU) cannot adjust fast enough for the 02's output rendering the a/f mix useless. This is all done BECAUSE the cam is screwing with the vacuum signal (engine airflow) the MAF reads."

So the MAF reads the air, the cam screws with it, the 02 gets tricked... Tell me what I am missing?

Also that article didnt say anything about the choppy idle that messes with the fuel pressure regulator. Low vac = higher pressure. MORE RICH.

Run your argument pass the gurus over in the tuning dept
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-prom/
and see what response you get

Concerning cam overlap, remember that oxygen sensors are aptly named since they don't measure the actual ratio of air to fuel. Instead, the sensor reads the amount of free oxygen in the exhaust and calculates an A/F ratio.
When we use a long-duration camshaft with additional overlap, both valves are open at the same time for a longer period of time. It is inevitable that exhaust gas and fresh inlet air will pass directly from the intake valve right out the exhaust.
This free oxygen is read by the sensor as a lean A/F mixture when the truth is the A/F ratio is probably significantly richer.

That quote is incomplete, so go twists someone elses words and your cam running rich is no suprise to me as I am not arguing they run rich from that reason.

EDIT... I will ask no problem.

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles..._question.html

In any case I don't see you putting up any links or references to back up your opinion
Just you standing on a soapbox saying "I am right"

I dont need any links. The bottom line is overlap decreases engine vacuum, and that makes the a/f ratio go lean. This is stated in pretty much every cam article there is.

You do the homework as you still dont understand how overlap kills vacuum. Im sorry but you will never get me to say otherwise. Have a good night.

Heres a link from CHP - Overlap http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...ics/index.html

" The first drawback: When a cylinder fires during its combustion stoke, both valves are closed in order to contain compression. However, to maximize exhaust potential, an engine builder may use a camshaft that opens the exhaust valve before the piston reaches bottom dead center (BDC) and closes slightly after the exhaust stroke passes TDC during the early induction cycle. The benefit here is a well-scavenged exhaust stroke but it comes at the expense of some bled-off cylinder pressure and a slightly contaminated intake charge. Along with a disturbed intake charge, the engine's vacuum signal is weakened because the piston's vacuum is not only drawing its intake charge from the induction system, it's also pulling dirty air from the open exhaust valve. This weakened air signal raises emissions and lowers idle engine vacuum, which plays a major role in the operation of engine-driven accessories"

Overlap decreases vacuum.

Ok. So you're saying that overlap decreases vacuum. Are you sure you're not making this up? Sorry. Couldn't resist...

GRR. LOL Dont start (joking).

Whats stupid is I have literally wasted probably an hour in full on this stupid debate because someone doesnt believe me when I tell them that the decreased engine vacuum from the cam overlap is the cause of the ECU problems.

Its elemetary knowledge. Never in my whole stay on TGO (since mid 90's) would I ever think that someone could argue this fact.

Not to mention the links they posted included the fact that the MAF contributes to this. I mean, Vette!! How much more proof do ya need? Your arguing with me because you dont believe this fact? Or because you think that I dont know about what the sensors do? Well.. Sorry pal, Ive been knowing that crap for 10 years at least.

Original Poster. I am sorry this debate screwed your thread. I seriously would like to weigh the camshaft choices we have as I am in the same market. Let me know if you are still interested talking about the 10 or so choices we have. Thanks.

degree of overlap has a direct effect in vacuum.map car would go rich.maf car would initially go lean but eventually would go rich due to excessive oxygen from "misfires" caused by overlap at idle as seen by 02 as lean condition.remember this effect would would only occur during idle and extended cruise.tx your right on how the ecm would initially act.vette your right on how ecm would react after idling or cruising steady after a about 30 secs in closed loop.bottom line ....high overlap w/o extensive chip tuning =crappy running car .everybody happy now?

btw i too am looking for tpi friendly cam.my obstacle is i have to pull intake to see if i have roller or flat tappet.i have no idea what po put in this thing .none of the block #s are where they are supposed to be and the ones i find dont pan out.has 416 heads though.you know he put a "350 vette motor in it".its def. a305 though.i think he bought a 350 vette motor but the guy who put it in put a 305 short block and some L 69 heads he had laying around!lol

I am going to post all the flat tappet choices in hopes this thread can get some momentum going on which cam would be best for what... I know were splitting hairs here, but when you arent in a hurry. its all the fun.

Any ideas when your going to find out whats in there?

um unfortunately inPA VERY cold right now!

im a gamer but when your hands start sticking to the metal....its time to wait for a warmer day!lol

Ya im still interested. What have you picked out?

if you do a list , do one list of flat tappet cams for stock heads and do another list for flat tappet cams for aftermarket heads like the tfs 56cc heads ..

Sorry guys for the delay. I am a sick right now with some serious fever.

I am compiling a list though, as we speak... So it should be done by tomorrow at noon or so.

It is going to be complete.

im curious what flat tappet cam you will come up with for a 305 with tfs 56cc heads that flow 240cfm's, tpi big mouth lower,as&m runners,ported plenum,hookers headers,3.42 gears and all the other little bolt ons ..

wouldn't it be easier to measure a pushrod?

he has a point, pull a push rod just to see if its anything other than stock length (by stock i mean the push-rods they used forever for the flat tappet cams) if its anything else it's a roller?

You can run a big cam on these MAF computers and run o2 sensors just fine... its all in the tune.

I had a 230/245 .600+" 109 lsa cam idling happy on my 383... Lope lope lope lope all day long.
I have tuned a 230/236 .576/.570 113 lsa cam on a L98 HSR motor...just a mild bored .060" over 350 block...360". Its got a very lopey choppy idle but its stable at 750-850 rpms and runs closed loop just fine. Runs pretty good for what it is.

If all else fails, tune via wideband o2 and force Open loop all the time... you will easily have it running right.

The cam you picked isnt huge but a good size for TPI 305. Guys have run the LT4 hotcam in their cars and it has a great choppy idle and still runs fine on computer, even with little to no tuning

Alright guys, sorry for the wait. Death finally decided to spare me and let my fever somewhat subside... It was fluctuating between 101ish by day and got as high as 104.3 by night. There was just no way I was getting out of bed.

So I am going to release the first bit by the most popular cam grinder.
Comp Cams.

Computer Controlled Cams

252AH-12 p/n 12-388-4
RPM 1000-5000
206/212 .425 .440 @ 112 LSA 108 ICL 32* overlap

260AH-14 p/n 12-402-4
RPM 1500-5500
212/218 .444 .444 @ 114 LSA 110 ICL 36* overlap

268AH-14 p/n 12-404-4
RPM 1800-5800
222/226 .464 .464 @ 114 LSA 110 ICL 44* overlap

Xtreme Energy Cams

XE249H p/n 12-249-4
RPM 1000-5000
206/212 .434 .444 @ 112 LSA 108 ICL 30* overlap

XE256H p/n 12-256-4
RPM 1200-5200
212/218 .449 .456 @ 112 LSA 108 ICL 38* overlap

XE262H p/n 12-262-4
1500-5500
218/224 .464 /470 @ 114 LSA 110 ICL 38* overlap

XE268H p/n 12-268-4
RPM 1800-5800
224/230 .477 .480 @ 114 LSA 110 ICL 45* overlap

Xtreme Fuel Injection Cams

252XFI H13 p/n 12-364-4
RPM 1300-5300
208/217 .477 .472 @ 113 LSA 109 ICL 33* overlap

260XFI H13 p/n 12-365-4
RPM 1500-5500
216/223 .499 .493 @ 113 LSA 109 ICL 40* overlap

268XFI H13 p/n 12-366-4
RPM 2000-6000
224/231 .520 .515 @ 113 LSA 109 ICL 48* overlap


I have ran all these cams on the CamQuest 6 simulator and staying under 220* intake duration the XE256 was hard to beat. The 260XFI got it by a little on average and peak but were talking about a few HP. Nothing the butt dyno would notice and the fact that it did that with less duration, less lift and doesn't set the exhaust valve down quite as hard.. This would be my pick for a bolt on TPI 305 with stock heads and intake.

Modified heads that will accept .520 lift - ported intake and bolt ons galore I am putting my money on the 260XFI.

so with the tfs heads with the .540 lift springs and ported intake etc... with the 260xfi cam what rocker ratio would be ideal ??

Since you pretty much have everything done but the required head work - I have to ask; are you going to do any? As you sit right now, I would not go with anything over .460" lift just to be on the safe side, and that just because the clearance isn't there. Doom I believe has been through this when he ported his heads.

If you decide to do some work on the cylinder heads when you do the cam (may as well, its only header and head bolts by then) - I would honestly go for an XE with 1.6" rocker arms or do an XFI if you go with comp.

If you will notice I listed the amount of overlap on all those cams above along with all the specs because there are some cams I am betting we can use that say they are not for computer controlled applications. The Summit cams for instance and the Crane 2040.

I have never used a comp cam in anything. I used Crane for my GM cars and Lunati or Trick Flow (and FMS back in the day) in all my Mustangs. So this is new territory for me as well.

Sorry Ray.. I was just getting to you.

I am not going to BS ya... If you have aluminum heads and everything else... thats a more max effort deal IMO and in that case I would be looking at a retro fit roller cam. I can still understand that being too expensive so I say if you got all the other parts for the intake you mentioned... The 260XFI would work fine... but I would be interested to go with the XFI268 H13. For those who dont agree, Comp recommends this cam for bolt on 350 TPI cars with gears, so naturally a 305 thats got cylinder heads can use this...Just make sure you use a "2800-3200" Stall w/ lock up...

Another thing that always catches my eye is that most higher hp 305 builds use cams like that. Reason being they say is it helps offset the use of a smaller intake valve by adding more duration than what would normally be needed..Makes sense.

i thought about the retrofit deal but i changed my mind .. im doing this car so i can give it to my kid when he's old enough to drive and ive been getting smoking deals on used parts so thats why i went this far ...as far as the heads , i just think its easier to get the tfs heads over doing a set of 416's up .. i think the 260xfi will be the cam ...just have to decide on what ratio rockers ...

I would just go with the 1.5's... The extra lift from the 1.6's maybe worth 10hp or so. I agree on the 416's if you are paying for the port work...just know 240cfm is do-able out of them and there's more than enough threads and intell out there to DIY.
Speedtalk has a few threads on them and and a member here named FBIRD88 has done a few of them.

Well I actually think I will be getting the heads ported if I put a cam.
I might as well while im at it lol

I have that lunati 60101SK i will find get results in about a week when i install my motor and get it tuned