88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

and here is a better pic of my fuel regulator location.... you see i can use the factory return line hose that will screw into the bottom of the regulator... all i need is a adapter to connect the hose to the regulator... all thats required now is two new lines which i will post pics eventually...

SiCkRs

iTrader: (6)

Subscribing i wanna see how it comes out.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

sorry for the long wait.... im getting the intake custom painted.... The intake is silver just like the factory but with the word "first" and the plenum lines being highlighted in black, the word "tpi" and its side lines being highlighted in black and last the polished fuel rail wording that says " First fuel injections made in USA" is also being highlighted in black.... should look really really sharp and would look nice with my polished aluminum edelbrock valve covers that im getting... they all go together.... here are the valve covers that i want...

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

i know everyone is waiting..... im anxious myself... seems like its taking forever but he has to build these.... i know im going to have to go through the wait again with afr 180 heads and danas probuilt road race 700r4....

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

got a message from ken today here is what he said

"Hi David,

We should have it finished up this week for you. I would imagine you will see it mid next week.

Thanks Ken"

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Do you have vette aluminum L98 heads? If so, maybe just send them to Lloyd Elliott and for 850-1000 bucks have them completely worked over, ported, larger valves installed, and decked, with new springs suitable for any hydraulic roller. In the end, it will cost alittle less than AFR 180's and make about the same power. Just a thought, and keeping it factory appearing/all GM based

Cant wait to see the results

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

hey orr89rocz.... no i have those iron l98 heads...... they have been worked over to run the hotcam but i really want to get rid of them.. i didnt get new valve guides and still using the original ones and my car is blowing out blue a little bit of blue smoke because of that..... i could have bought afr's if i didnt get this intake.... the intake project so far is around 1200 dollars.... the only thing money wise left to spend on the intake build is the fuel lines and thats about it....

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I see, in that case just save up for some better heads and cam to match. AFR's arent bad, but you could do well with a set of 195's on that motor with a good high lift custom grind

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

intake should be here this week guys... and happy fathers day to all....

HighTechRedneck

SO????????????

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

im still waiting for it.... im anxious as well..... ken said he was waiting for fuel rail stock about three days ago.... other than that its done and ready to ship... so i should get it any day now... i will also be doing a ls1 3.73 rear end swap as well at the same time.... i would like to see how 3.73's and the FIRST do on my car....

86T/A_Ram_Air

subscibed

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

and a another member on here (camaronewbie) will also help me with all this..... im looking for all this to be done and completed by mid july...... so stay tuned....

gbayfisher

What gear do you have in the car now? Reason I ask is... it would be neat to compare the two. Do you need to change it out now, or can it wait until after the swap?
The 3.73's, with gobs of torque can make 1st gear awefully short, and smokey!
What are the cam specs and stall?

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

right now i have 3.27 gears...i need to change out the rear because my nine bolt is whining and i know its about to go out.... the stall is a corvette stall so about a 2200 stall and my cam spec is 218/228 .492 .492 on 112lsa

gbayfisher

I would tend to think that you are getting close to boarderline high of gear, but I am sure it will work okay.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

i know... these are the absolute highest gears i would you for this... but im sure ill like it for what im doing...

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

LT1 guys do 3.73's all the time with stock motors let alone LT4 hotcammed stuff. 3.73's will match well with the big tube FIRST, as it will allow you to get up into the 5500 rpm range where that cam is making power. I think it will be a perfect setup, especially with low stall.

My buddy's full bolt on TPI car ran 3.70's in a 9 bolt and that car ran 13.59 at 99mph on street tires and stock stall....absolutely amazing setup. JUST about to go into 4th gear at the top of the track, but he stayed in 3rd and rev'd out with his SLP runners and big mouth base. Ran fine

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

orr89rocz its always nice to hear from you.. it makes me feel alot better about the gear swap.... i was thinking since i have 3.73 gears now to go with a milder converter... i was thinking about a 9.5 inch 3000 stall but now with the new gears i probably go with a edge 9.5 2600 stall...

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

also judging by your buddies timeslips... i should easily be in the mid 12s with this setup..... and all on stock heads mind you..... just goes to show what unported 083 heads can do with the right setup....

gbayfisher

What has yours run in current form?

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

You know as many times I wanted to go down the track.. I never made time for it... which is kind of dissapointing because I wanted to see a before and after results....

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

orr89rocz.. what stall size do you recommend for this build..... i think im going to go with edge because they are abit cheaper than vigilante but im not sure about a stall size... i dont want a max effort stall but a nice upgrade over the vette stall... i was thinking 2800 stall... probuilt automatics has nothing but good things to say about edge and vigilante converters....

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

2600-2800 should do it

BadSS

If I were you, I'd get the intake on and see how the current stall works with it. I was running a 2800 stall converter with a TH350 and the FIRST intake. It was REALLY hard to launch with street tires and the 3.23s. I had to put a ton of heat in the 26x11.5s and even then had to hit the throttle just right to get a decent launch at the track. That's with the 1st gear ratio of the TH350 at 2.53:1. With the increased gear ratio in the 700,, that Vette stall might not be a bad match.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

im going to use my vette stall with this build now and see how i like it with the 3.73 gears... if i do decide to get a stall it might be the same stall speed but in a 9.5 inch size.... i liked how the smaller inched converter spooled and revved up compared to the big 12 inch converter.... my old 10 inch 3000 stall spooled WAY quicker than the vette stall and got right into the powerband with ease.. also it shifted MUCH quicker and i could tell that the smaller diameter converters are easier on the drivetrain....

seanof30306

iTrader: (4)

I disagree. If you're talking about slicks or drag radials, maybe, but with a street-driven car that makes so much torgue, all you're going to do is kill the launch and possibly spin all the wy through first gear. LT1 and LT4 cars needed their short runner design makes more power at higher rpms.

I'm not going to go into all the boring details, but my old 400 SBC / Turbo 350 / 3.31 geared 70 Chevelle ran 12.70s on street tires. Broke the rearend, put a 12 bolt w/ 3.73s, and ran 12.90s.

Then there's Mike Crews, whose TPI/Vortec.3.27 geared 383 '89 Camaro ran 12.37 just as he drove it to the track.

Gotta match your components. I'd suggest a 3.42 10 or 12 bolt, a 3.45 9 bolt, or a 3.55 9", depending on his rearend.

On my T-5 Firebird, the 3.42s still let me cruise 65mph at under 2000 rpm.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

normally would agree with you about the 3.70 rear end and tpi but... i think the gm hotcam and the FIRST tpi will push my band up higher much like the gm hotcam did back when i had the ported edelbrock and ported slp runners.... back when i had that setup i didnt have the insane low end punch like i did with an all stock tpi.. instead it pull harder from 2000 on up... it was much easier to break tires with the stock tpi than the aftermarket ported stuff.... thats why i had a 10 inch 3000 stall to make up for the little bottom end torque that i lost downlow... the FIRST increase the powerband up to about 500-600 more than what my ported edelbrock/slp tpi could do meaning a little more less torque downlow but MUCH more torque and horsepower starting from 2000 on up to near 6000 on a 350 where the hotcam starts to make power and 3.73 gears will get me up to those rpms quicker than 3.27 gears.....

here's what badss says over of the corvette forum regardling different intakes

For street-only use, he would use a stock/aftermarket TPI setup.

For street/strip, he would use the FIRST.

For strip, he would select the HSR.


Note: I've considered all 3 options. BADSS has USED all 3. My application would be strickly street, so maybe the aftermarket TPI is really the strongest feeling intake for the street?


also another comparison from badss

I liked the StealthRam,, but missed the midrange rush of the old TPI - although I did like how the car could hook decently on street tires,, something impossible to do with the old TPI/SLP combo,,, and how well it ran from a kick. The FIRST is middle of the road,, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It moved the power band up a few hundred RPM compared to the fully ported TPI/SLP combo,,, but not as high as the StealthRam.

Power band wise:
TPI/SLP - off idle to 5500 rpm - high-12.9s@105mph
FIRST - 2000 - 5800 - mid-12.5s@107mph
HSR - 3000 - 6400 - low-12.6s@108
ETs are for similar conditions with temps in the high 80s

A buddy with a 13.0 LS car would pull ever so slightly away from me with the old TPI/SLP combo from a 60mph kick. I could blow his doors off with either the HSR or the FIRST - with the HSR being a steady even pull while the FIRST would really put it on him on the initial hit and kinda tapered off a bit. That same 13.0 car could hand over the TPI/SLP combo on street tires,, bad,, I could not hook the thing. Again,, with the StealthRam and the FIRST I could flat blow his doors off,,, but the FIRST was harder to hook. Like I said,, it all depends on what you're looking for. I never ran a ported FIRST on the IROC, but would have expected about a .12 reduction in ETs over the box stock FIRST with relatively minor port work / clean-up. Not that it's bad out of the box,,, it's just sized to a stock exit,, and it turns down into it. The injector bumps are also quite large and can be dang near flattened out.

seanof30306

iTrader: (4)

Look, there's lots of guys on here that know a lot more than I do. I'm a big fan of the FIRST, but, if wheelspin is a concern (compared to HSR), the I'd say the more gear, the worse the problem. I'd think a TPI/SLP car that spins the tires with 3.27s would experience virtually the same problem with a FIRST and 3.73s.

You can adjust your powerband somewhat by going into the chip and playing with the timing and fuel. If there's not enough adjustment there, you can further adjust the powerband by advancing or retarding the cam. If there's not enough adjustment there, you can go to a cam with more, or less duration, depending on how you want to adjust the powerband. On the Chevelle I spoke of, I switched to a single plane intake, big tube headers, and a bigger carb to cut enough of that 400s low end torque to be able to launch it on street tires. I drove to the track on basic Goodyear Eagle STs, dropped a few lbs of air, and pulled 1.8 60' times. I was shifting into 3rd just before the 1000 ft mark, so I figured a 3.73 gear would pull that shift back another 300 ft and crank up the mph.

It did, I gained 3mph on the top end. The problem is, the increased torque multiplication meant wheelspin all the way through 1st gear. I couldn't get my 60' times below 2.0 to save my life. Even with drag radials, I couldn't get the car to launch with the 3.73s as well as it did with the 3.31s on Eagles.

Now that's just my experience, yours could be different, but over the years, most of the 3rd Gens I've seen going to 3.73s have had major traction problems. on street tires.

You see magazine project cars going with 3.73s and even 4.10s all the time. That's because the writer wants the car to pull a big number, so the editor gets lots of positive response from readers, and orders more installments. There are very few staff magazine writers anymore, most sell one article at a time to the magazine they're "associate editors" on. Time and again, they go with the 3.73, complain that it doesn't hook up, and throw a set of slicks on it to get the number.

They never mention the car boils the tires in stopligt-to-stoplight bopping, and loops every time they hit it coming out of a corner on an autocross or road course.

You've apparently got the gears in the car already, so it makes sense to see what it'll do before you make any changes. My suggestion would be to simply keep the gearing in mind if you end up having traction problems.

Good Luck!

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

yea i see what your saying.... i do have 3.27s now but my nine bolt is about trash so i really have no choice but to use the 02 rear end with 3.73.... i just like the fact that i will have a build to where i can roast tires on command if i wanted to... im not too big on numbers just the shear fun factor of a tire shredding street car that pulls VERY hard for a daily driver street car.... also it alot of the traction problems can be solved with tires and suspension upgrades.... i have lcarbs and every other suspension mod in the book you name it i have it....and all really helped in traction/takeoff/cornering and overall soild feel of the car.. it really does feel like a different car with the suspension mods... no need of build a powerful car if you dont have the brakes and suspension to back it up.... either way it should make for a really fun street car to play with.....

seanof30306

iTrader: (4)

Boy, if I had a dollar for every time I saw one of those 4th Gen guys at the track with a broken rearend ........

I used to belong to the GAFBA (Georgia F-Body Association) when I lived in Atlanta. Went to a lot of the track meets they held; seemed like I was always lending my floor jack to some guy with drag radials and a bisted 10 bolt.

If you're thinking of a 10 bolt out of a 4th Gen, one of the PriMedia mags did a great article a few years back on beefing them up. It was a releatively inexpensive process, just blueprinting it and swapping out a few key parts.

Good Luck!

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

im not worried about gernading my ls1 rear end...the ls1 guys put out about 320whp and 300wtq stock... most built up ls1's are pushing in excess of 400whp and 400twq..... combine that with crazy clutch dumping and burnouts that shocks and stresses the rear end in a tremendous amount and i wouldnt be surprised to see broken rears... i know i will not have the power of an built up ls1. so my power will be less...those ls1 torsen rears were designed for autocross and road racing not drag racing.... my car is a corner craver and i rather have that then insane power.. plus i have a automatic which is much easier on the rear and i dont plan on doing any crazy racing or burnouts like those guys do... since i had my car i dont think i have ever done a burnout because i know it causes stress and not to mention wasting your tires.... all i do is drive aggressively at times.... as long as im throttle mannered i shouldnt have anything to worry about... orr89rocz has a twin turbo 401 and has done numerous passes and hasnt busted his ls1 rear end yet....

BadSS

If you don't have a support cover for the rear end yet, I'd highly suggest one - they really are worth the money. This is a LPW "Ultimate" cover under a Strange part number ($149.99). Strange enough,,, it is cheaper than the straight LPW part number.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Strange+Engine...R5219/10002/-1

Also, just to clarify an earlier quote from me. I would prefer running a TPI/SLP combo on the street only if I NEVER raced the car. It gives the driver the impression the car is a lot faster than it is. That bubble can be burst rather quickly once you line the thing up,,, or take it to the track. It was fun to play around in, tire smoke at will,,, but it was not fun to hook. As far as traction on street tires,, it was a big problem. Even at the track with slicks I had to really work the throttle to get a remotely decent 60-ft. The HSR was the easiest to launch on the street tires,, in fact it was fairly easy. So,, it depends on what you're looking for. For me,,, the FIRST was a really nice happy medium between maximum fun and ET.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

thanks for clearing that up.. either way i will have loads of fun with the first... so those rear end girdles really are worth the money huh... the one you posted as a link..... what do they do for the rear end....

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

IMO, if you go to the strip on street tires, your wasting your 20-30 bucks you paid to get in...

ANy combo will spin tire on the street, when using street tires. Even stock bolt on L98's with 230-240whp.... you just have to do a better job at driving to maintain traction.

Now drag radials on the street make things abit more interesting...definately hook alittle better than most street tires yet still offer the ride quality of a street tire. The stiff sidewall helps.

IF this car is mostly street driven, i'd still up the stall and gear and just throw on a drag radial. Reason is, you may not beable to launch 100% on the street, but the higher gear/stall combo will make it MUCH more fun from 30-50mph rolls depending which gear your starting it. THAT is 90% of your street fun driving right there. Not many of us "launch" our cars on the street, but every now and then we kick it while at a cruise speed...or passing another car...etc.

Get a set of drag tires for the strip when you go, it will make your experience 10x more enjoyable. Been there done that. I dont understand why you wouldnt want to know what the best ET the car can do. SLicks/drag radials will allow you to use your set up. And the launch is the best part of drag racing. The rush of a good 60 foot time is why I do it, although lately with the new setup, the top end charge is taking over the thrill since it doesnt 60 foot like it should yet.

Lastly you got to gear the car based on the powerband you will have at the track. I was figuring 105-108mph traps with that combination of parts. With 26" tire, 105mph is 5063 rpm. 108 mph is 5208 rpm. Peak power on that setup should be in the 5000-5500 range, with a flat curve so 3.73's will get you trapping the 1/4 mile at peak hp...thats how you get your best ET usually.

texascat2

Subscribed as well.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

oh trust me i will be going to the track just to see what its capable of...... i wanted to get a spar of nitto tires..... im about 80 miles away from rockingham dragway... so it will make for a nice trip anyways..... im still going with 3.73 gears and when when money allows it a 9.5 edge stall...... im thinking with this combo i should have about 330-340whp and 400+wtq and with stock unported heads mind you.... Hopefully this week i can see the intake in the mail..... i really want to get it on....

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

good news..... ken emailed me and that it has been shipped off and i should have it either today or tomorrow.... i will post pics of it as soon as i get it....

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

hey badss... i was thinking about getting this rear end cover...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-8510400/

isnt it basically the same as the one you posted....

BadSS

They're all similar, but the Strange/LPW cover is considered one of if not the best. Between the two, I'd go with the Strange - it increases fluid capacity (not sure about the TFS) to help keep fluid temps lower. It also has provisions for additional bracing,,, but I'm not sure how much that would help. Plus it has ULTIMATE cast right into it,,, so it must be - lol.

http://www.lpwracing.com/Ultimate_GM/Ultimate_GM.html

I ran the TA Performance girdle and it IS basically the same design as the Strange/LPW cover (minus the additial brace provision). Since you have a Trans Am,, you might like that it has "TA Performace" stamped into it.

http://www.taperformance.com/proddet...prod=TA%5F1809

4U2ENVY

Did you end up doing this swap yet? How much of a difference in power did you notice? is it worth the money and what should i expect if installed on a stock LB9 tuned port 5.0?

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

GENTLEMEN.............. I PRESENT TO YOU THE FIRST.........

pictures do not serve this intake justice... its just massive compared to a stock tpi.... it looks like a big block intake.... i had the highlights powdercoated in black to match my polished aluminum edelbrock valve covers that are coming soon...

gbayfisher

Very nice!
You using existing injectors?
Did you go with egr delete?

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

the runners are much shorter and are bigger compared to as&m runners... this should easily past that 4800 wall that tpi's suffer...

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

Not even my fully ported plenum is good as the FIRST's Plenum...


062911155333.jpg?t=1309381768

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

Thanks man..... the highlights on the tpi should go well with these valve covers i ordered... yes im going to re use my svo 24lb injectors... It has egr provisions but i put a block off plate on it because my egr has been deleted out the computer already..

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

the ports are Huge compared to my edelbrock highflow base....



dsfadsf

gbayfisher

The black accents are very nice.

Reason I asked bout the egr is , the threaded compression fitting Ken uses is not easy to pull apart and reuse.
When you install the intake, check the T.V cable length, I had an issue with it just barely being long enough to attach to the throttle linkage, I had zero room for adjustment so I am modifing my bracket. I let ken know, and he found it strange since he doesnt remember changing any dimensions, he went out to verify the measurements on his own car and the two back bolts for the side throttle block off plate have indeed been changed, they were pulled back about .250 inch. Kind of weird?

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

i will look into the T.V cable issue.... thanks for the heads up.... right now im bout to go to the auto parts store and pick up some fittings and fuel lines hoses....

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

ok so the first thing that i had to make up was this




i had to buy two 3/8ths 90 degree fuel line fittings and 3/8 fuel injection hose to connect the two rails together.. the mr gasket fitting is a little longer to make up for the fuel rail being a tad shorter on the front driver side so the fuel line is straight....here are the part numbers for it and what store i got it from.. Make sure you use thread sealant also

3/8ths fuel hose 80080 Pep Boys
mr gasket 90 fitting 2970G O Reillys Auto Parts
spectre 90 fitting 5946 Pep Boys
Thread sealant 59214 Pep Boys