88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

well guys im switching to the FIRST Intake system in a couple of weeks and getting rid of my ported edelbrock/slp Tpi sytem.....i have already sold my slp runners and someone has dibs on my edelbrock base when its off the car.. the mini ram im currently selling on ebay is going to fund my FIRST project... the reason im going with the FIRST is because not many have this system and know very little about it and its considered the BEST out of the box tpi system out there.... the base alone flows around 301cfm stock and you need serious work to the other aftermarket tpi bases to get that amount... i want to maximize by low end and mid range power and have alot more usable top end power and the FIRST is the only out the box LTR setup that can do that... and i also want to keep a relatively "stockish" apperance.... so the miniram has to go.. nice intake but i dont want to build a high rpm screamer..

052111200733.jpg?t=1306023868

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

here are some dyno numbers comparing a stock tpi, Aftermarket TPI, FIRST intake and the mini ram

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

So im offically starting my First intake thread now.....


First off here is what the first tpi intake looks like





It looks like a stock tpi on steriods doesnt it....if you want all the power of the traditional ltr setup but want superram like top end power then this is the ultimate tpi system for you... the overall plenum ports runner ports and base ports are HUGE compared to the edelbrock/tpis/accel bases and runners.







.Even tho it looks like a tpi system NOTHING INTERCHANGES WITH THE FIRST AND ALL OTHER AFTERMARKET TPI SYSTEMS..... this is a standalone system and all the parts pictured are FIRST only parts... so this means you would have to buy a adjustable fuel pressure regulator and create your own custom fuel lines for this intake.... everything else like the tps, iac intake boot and all other electronics basically bolts up to this intake.. so for us tpi guys this is basically a bolt on deal... You can buy this intake at firstfuelinjection.com for 1040.00 shipped...

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

anyways Ken (the guys over at firstfuelinjection.com who sells the intake and knows all about them) recommended me to get this aeromotive adjustable fuel pressure regualtor..... here is the pic of the same regulator that ken told me to get

052111200952.jpg?t=1306023868


i got it at summit racing.. for 128 plus shipping
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AEI-13301/

i bought the add on gauge at harbor freight for 10.00 dollars so i can see where my fuel pressure is at whenever i want to..

it comes with two springs, one for carbs 3-20 psi(installed inside regulator from the factory) and another shorter springs for fuel injected cars from 20-65psi (it comes with the regulator... take factory spring out and install this springs for our cars) its a nice looking regulator and if you want to control the fuel pressure you will need one of these babies...

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

i will keep updating this thread as my projects goes on...

spade

iTrader: (3)

i have a FIRST... i think its a great buy....

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

how is the power... what mods do you have on your car to go along with the FIRST

spade

iTrader: (3)

Camshaft Type: HYD. Roller
Camshaft Lift: .495 IN X .502 EX
Camshaft Duration @.50: 220 IN X 224 EX
Cylinder Head Type: OE Cast Iron Vortec
Chamber Size: 64 cc
Valve Size: 1.94 IN X 1.50 EX
Compression Ratio: 9.6:1
Rocker Arm Ratio: 1.5:1(but im thinking of upgrading to 1.6
Ignition Timing: 36 Degrees Total Advance
Max RPM: 5800
24lbs injectors and the same afr you have but in red

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

your build is similar to my current build....

nice setup u got there... i was considering vortec heads but i want to get some aluminum heads... here is my build thats going with the FIRST...

gm hotcam 218/228 duration .492 .492 lift (.525 .525 soon with 1.6 rockers)
l98 heads
9.7 to 1 compression (10.3 to 1 compression soon with afr 180s milled to 58cc)
24lb injectors (30lb injectors when doing afr 180 swap)
1.5 comp cam rockers
SLP cold air intake

the only other engine mod i want to do besides the FIRST is afr 180's and injectors but that will come when income taxes come around next year....

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

how much ?

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

the First intake is 1040 shipped
fuel regulator is 140 shipped
fuel lines depends so 60 bux

so its about 1240 plus other little things that you may need...... i will exlpain it all when i get my intake within the next couple weeks...

Blackdog36

iTrader: (3)

88fastgta, glad to see you will be getting a FIRST intake. I know that you have put a lot of time into your prior TPI setup and have seen your other posts about swapping to a non TPI intake. I think you will be very happy with FIRST. Please let us know how the install goes. Have you seen my post on matching TPI runner/length with cam intake duration? It is below. I added your cam intake duration of 218 into my excel sheet to see how it would match up with stock FIRST TPI. Your sized engine (355) with stock FIRST intake and 218 intake duration cam will make peak torque at 4,875rpm for the 3rd harmonic pressure wave. Might not be real world result but it should give you an idea on what to expect. For my engine combo with FIRST, I want to build exhaust that will match peak torque rpm on my intake/engine combo. One more project to the list I just love the thought of our cars with one of the baddest TPI intakes.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...culations.html

Spade, how do you like your FIRST? I know you were part of the group purchase the other year and actually got around to installing the intake. I finally have a place to overhaul my car so it might be awhile before I can install and test out my FIRST

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

i just found one for 750.00 obo for a first intake lower,runners,upper,injectors,throttle body..seems like a good deal..

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

thanks blackdog36.. yeah i have done lots of tpi mods but i still want more top end power so this first intake maybe my last option to keep it looking somewhat stock.... i dont think i have seen your thread on port matching but 4875 peak torque would be very nice on the street.. thats a big improvement over regular tpi stuff.... you would be lucky to even make power that high with a stock tpi.... i know that the first will impress me..... its a beast compared to any other LTR setup i have seen.... i just cant wait to get it installed on my car.... if i can make about 360 370 to the wheels with afr heads then i will be a happy camper...

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

and ray jr i would jump all over that whoever is selling it for 750.00.. thats a good deal.... i will trade my miniram outright for a first tpi intake..... but its currently on ebay now....

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Signing on to the thread.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

one last look of my engine bay before the tear down and swap of the FIRST intake...... the slp runners are already sold so i put my stock runners on (not pictured)as i still need the car to drive to work etc... KEN told me that the FIRST will sit about a 1/4 inch lower than a stock tpi so i can still reuse my strut tower brace.... that was one thing i was worried about if it cleared the strut brace or not..

enginebay3.jpg?t=1304453621

enginebay2.jpg?t=1304453534

calebzman

iTrader: (3)

I will be following this thread as well since I also just picked up a used First intake off craigslist this weekend. With the stock tpi peak horsepower was at 4,200rpm, so like you, I'm hoping to extend the powerband a little more while keeping the midrange torque.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

thanks everyone for following my thread... my mini ram ends wednesday on ebay... so ill know if it sales or not because that will fund my project.....

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

well my miniram on ebay ends in the morning... hopefully it sells so i can buy this intake by the end of this week....

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

if the mini ram sells i will be getting the FIRST intake with the nice satin grey color with the FIRST and TPI and the lines highlighted in black... Ken said it would be free of charge to do the highlights..... Then clearcoat the entire intake at home...

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

had to put the mini ram on ebay again... this time it will sell its just a matter of time till the auction ends now... so ill let you guys know when i order the FIRST which should be june 4th or 5th....

Trinten

You mentioned having to do some work to get the fuel lines steup with the FIRST. That's the part I'd be really interested in, I hope you document the heck out of that!

For you guys that are finding the setup on Craigslist and in other deals... I'm jealous!

This will be my setup converting from my carb, now that my engine is finally done and the car is back on the road, so eager to see someone walk through a "build" with it!

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

well for cars that already came equppied with a tpi the lines are rather easy to do...all the electronics and pumps and lines are already there.. its basically a bolt on deal for me because i dont have to worry about no egr or none of the emmisions crap because ive deleted just about everything except heat and powerbrakes... everything else under the hood is pretty much gone... but i will document everything... if your going from carb to the FIRST then it will be abit more involved because you need all the sensors and a high pressure fuel pump.... but anyway its just seems like time is taking forever to get here.....

Trinten

Awesome, thank you. I knew I'd need all of the electronics and sensors, the actual fuel rail comment you made is what caught my attention. That was the first time (I recall) seeing someone say that you couldn't just grab any off-the-shelf fuel rails and slap them on with the AFPR.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

yeah you need to use the FIRST's fuel rail and buy the aeromotive (the one ken told me to get).... i cant use my stock fuel rails because they will not bolt up right... i do have a miniram and i choose not to use it because its a mismatch for my street setup... just because its an expensive intake and can scream to 7000rpms doesnt mean its the best for everyones type of build..... my whole setup is around this first intake build.... my transmission, gears, cam and stall and just about everything else are perfect for this intake...

oscarfromla

iTrader: (9)

I'm following this thread as well....I ordered my FIRST from Ken today

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

make sure you get that adjustable fuel regulator... you will need that also...

oscarfromla

iTrader: (9)

I'll start looking for one now...also just noticed that I'll have to make my own fuel lines from your post above. Thanks for the heads up.

mikesz1984

i put my FIRST on about 2 years ago, i love the intake, but make sure you give yourself plenty of time to do it right. depending on the year of vehicle you might have to make up a different end for your throttle cable. also you might have to make up some spacers to fit your acessories on the front of the engine. also be prepared to relocate your coil if you plan on keeping it emissions friendly with an egr. I also had to get a different set of intake gaskets( thicker) to use with my trickflow heads.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

thats good to know mikesz1984... i have a 88 car so my cable shouldnt be a problem, you have a v belt system while i have the serpentine plus i deleted my ac compressor and smog pump so that should be a breeze, my coil is mounted on my ac delete box already and i got rid of the egr and air system... im still running stock but modified l98 heads so i shouldnt need thicker gasekets but i am switching to afr 180 next year.... so this should be a bolt on deal for me.... im going to complete this in one day... im going to star this on a sunday morning (because i dont work sundays) and finish that evening....

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

good news guys.... its a go.... i will purchase the FIRST from ken on friday.....

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"good news guys.... its a go"

That is good news. Looking forward to the results.

oscarfromla

iTrader: (9)

Good to hear...I have to find out how much was milled off of my heads so that Ken can oval my intake bolts before he ships my unit. Can't wait to see your performance results.

Artisan

Did you dyno the previous combo? I would love to see the before and after numbers. I think one day I might try the first. Definately not this year though.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

the only dyno numbers i have is was when i had my old original l98 block in there about three years ago... it was a bolt on car with a crane 2032 cam (very mild cam), full exhaust and highflow tpi and i made 213Whp by 283Wtq... i was very dissapointed at the numbers and my motor blew on the dyno. my engine had over 150,000 miles at the time and was smoking badly since i had it so i guess it was just worn out and the dyno just put it out of its misery.. so i built the motor i have in my car now which is a forged 355 4 bolt main... i wish i did have dyno numbers this time around but i just never got around to it..... the slp runners that were on my car i sold them a couple weeks ago so im using my old stock runners just to drive the car until my FIRST comes in the mail... but i will get dyno numbers with this intake....

3rd gen Will

iTrader: (8)

subscribing.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

well i orderd my intake today... i should have it soon... i will post pics of it.....

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

should have the intake this week.....

gbayfisher

Nice to see another FIRST build up!. Looks like the intake is finally getting the some attention that it deserves.
I am in the process of tuning my 383 first build. As similar as it looks to the TPI , its not the same intake (physically), and I believe it will take longer than a day to install , just take your time and think it through.

Be careful with your port matching, sensors and wiring may need to be re-routed, accessory brackets may need to be modified, cable connections may not work the same, It really is NOT a simple "bolt on".
Very important thing to remember is to install your 45 degree oil sender/switch nipple BEFORE the intake is bolted on! The lower intake runners get in the way, and you will not be able to screw anything back in afterwards.
I didn't do it, so I moved the sender to the same port as the other oil switch down by the filter.

During my preliminary test runs, I can see that the intake is a beast, and can move a lot of air in the mid range, insane throttle response and with a quick blurp of the go pedal, your looking at redline!

I am having a hard time getting the tune down, but it is getting there. Are you going to retune?

Looking forward to your progress!

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

thanks for the heads up... well ken said he is building my intake now and i should have in in a week or so... yes i will get this tuned by alvin at pcm4less.... their location is about 150 miles from me... he is about as good as you can get with tpi cars in NC... my goal is to make 1 horsepower per cubic inch at the rear wheels.... so i want at least 355whp and 400wtq and still retain the "tpi" look when i finish this install...
but doin more research i will have do to a few mods to the wiring harness and other things for this intake to look "factory" and have did the following mods

1. The iac and housing is under the monoblade throttlebody and is facing the distributor... so i had to cut the harness and make the iac lines seperate from the other main lines that go across the passenger side valve cover. so now the iac wires and the actual iac will be routed under the plenum...

2. since you cannot use factory fuel rails... you will have to make your own lines... im going with rubber fuel pressure lines instead of braided steel lines because i want it to look factory and the braided lines will stick out.. so i got the aeromotive adjustable fuel pressure regulator and mounted it on my driver side J&M strut mounts.. the regulator is close enough to use the factory return rubber hose lines thats near the battery on firebirds... so i will only need to make two additional 3/8's fuel line hoses to complete my custom fuel lines.. i measured and i will need one line to be about 3.5 feet and the other one about 4.25 feet..they are this long because i want the lines away the valve covers and remain out of sight sort to speak.. so far it looks factory and all the lines i have will be hidden.

3. people have had problems trying to find a egr fit under the FIRST's intake.. since i already have the egr deleted out the computer i dont have to worry about this problem

gbayfisher

I hear you on braided, not a fan. I made up two braided lines for the time being but i want to lose them asap.
I used a rubber line (and typical npt brass fittings) for the crossover at the back, speaking of which, you should try to do this prior to bolting up the upper plenum, its a tight fit against the dizzy and i routed the line around the back of the dizzy for now.
It will take a bit of cutting and reworking lines and wire to get that clean factory look back, but it is possible, my winter project is to do just so!

Are you retaining an EGR? And is your intake being shipped bolted up with injectors and rails?

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

yes im getting the rails but using my own svo 24 pound injectors..... no im not using the egr valve.... ive deleted that several years ago and tuned it out the computer..... here is my fuel line diagram that i got wrapped up in my head.... the regulator is already mounted on the driver side J&M strut mount...

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

as you can see i dont have near the wires, clutter and mess i have to deal with when people swap intakes.....here you can see the regulator mounted on the mount.. also noticed the stock runners are back on until i can swap it all out for the FIRST....

gbayfisher

That will work, mine is just flipped, in through the front right, and out the front left to reg which is sitting on the factory steel fuel lines ( where they change to rubber) right next to the Cruise control canistor. Cant go wrong either way, just that doing the cross over in the back is more difficult with the intake all bolted up.

gbayfisher

Thats a clean engine bay!
You have no A/C or air pipes, makes it a lot nicer. Mine is messy, I really need to take some time and re-route a bunch of stuff, I want to retain air pumps, and a/c, so its not going to be easy.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

yes it should work... its a rough sketch but it will look much nicer than that.....im trying to i think but i think i have solved all the custom work.. now its just a matter of bolting on the system.. yes i have heard that the distributor will be a tight fit but it will fit.... the corvette guys have it much worse... they use that large hei dizzy and they have to either grind the back of the plenum or get a smaller dizzy altogether...... with all the stuff ive deleted it doesnt take me long to take the runners and plenum and fuel rail off.... im t

gbayfisher

One more thing, your existing air intake tubing/piping will need to be modified. The First comes further out than stock, but more importantly, comes out very high versus stock at the TB opening.
You may need to fit a 45 degree elbow straight off the front of the intake so that you get instant drop towards the nose of the car or the hood will hit. You will have to see it once you get there.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

i will have to check into that.... i know ken told me on the phone that i will be able to use my tubing.. i know since your car is an 87 your cold air intake is different than mine i think... my tubing is made by slp (i have thier slp cold air intake and their tubing has rivited airfoils inside them thats not present in the factory tubing) and is very flexible and it bends it widens very easily...but if its a problem i can cut it.. also im using the powerbulge hood that came off the formula cars.. ive gain a little bit more clearance over the stock gta hood...

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

well here is a pic of the iac lines i had to do... i also put that black plastic wrap over the lines to make it look factory now its long enough and can be between the runners and right to the new iac housing location...