Hello, to get straight to the point, I drive a 1987 Trans Am 305 TPI. I drove the car one morning and everything was fine nothing was out of place at all. That same evening I went to start it and the starter cranked and it sounded as though the engine was going to turn but then it didnt it just stopped, I went to crank it again the same thing, one more time and a loud pop was heard ( like a back fire) along with a small puff of white smoke from the engine. Tearing it down we found oil in the gas pan, the plugs were wet with gas, and the intake sprayed gas when trying to crank it. The engine will now not turn at all but just makes a rapid clicking noise when cracked. Sometimes a plunging sound is heard when trying to crank as if it wants to turn but just cant. My questions are...where should I start with looking for the leak, how do I get the gas out of the cylinders, and should I replace the manifold that is on top of the engine? (Intake I think is what its called not exactly sure). I really need to have this car fixed, its my only car and DD plus I have a 8 month old baby that I have to be able to take care of.

 

It may not be a leak at all but you may have just lost spark. Crank the engine long enough with no spark and you will fill things up with fuel. Remove the fuel pump and EFI fuse from its holder by the battery. This will disable the injectors and fuel pump. Then check spark at two or three spark plugs. If no spark at plugs, check spark at the coil wire to the distributor. If you have spark at the coil, you need to check the cap and rotor for damage.

Be careful with the HEI spark. It will hurt you if you get shocked by it. Be sure to use a spark tester, they are cheap to buy.

If no spark at the coil, use a 12v test light to check for B- pulse between engine ground and the white wire to the coil. If no pulse this way, disconnect the wire connector from the coil and check for pulse between the white wire and battery + terminal. If you get a pulse this way, the coil should be tested for a shorted or open primary, or replace the coil. If you get no pulse, you probably need an ICM in the distributor but it can also be the pick up coil. If you don't understand how to test these, refer it to someone who does.

BTW: before any testing, charge the battery.

 

Thank you so much for the reply I greatly appreciate it. I will be putting all of these componets to the test today, I will update you with the results as well. Again Thank you

 

If he does that wouldn't he end up with gas in the oil pan again?.

This happened to a car I was replacing some parts on. The owner pressure washed the interior while it was in the car.

The car wouldn't crank over. I removed the spark plugs and it cranked over easily but it would throw out a lot of gas. So then I unplugged the injectors and it stopped throwing out the gas. As soon as I would plug the injectors the car would flood and wouldn't let it crank.
And there was gas In the oil pan..

The problem was a bad ECM that would cause the injectors 2 always stay open.

I would go with checking the ECM first so you won't get gas in the oil pan again...

But I can be wrong. Just a thought.

Hope you get it fixed.

 

ECM? Where would this be located, and could you tell me about how much it would cost to replace?

 

It should u under the dash on the passenger side...take it off open it up if u can and look for any burn marks or water damage...you can find them at junkyard or from sumone parting out a car just make ur u get the same one...it shouldn't cost much tho.

If u don't c anything on the ECM...u might want 2 check the inspectors...or a fuse or relay.

Hopefully that helps..

 

Uh, no. Hence the "pull the fuel pump and injector fuses."

Fuel will be disabled during the spark test. This is the ONLY correct way to do a spark test. There should never be fuel flowing when open sparks are possible. Not to mention, the ECM is a very unlikely culprit here. Please, do yourself a favor and do the spark test EXACTLY as described above.

Edit: Keep in mind, the likely reason for 83C's story being the ECM is that it probably got shorted out due to extenuating circumstances. These things don't NORMALLY fail like that. Caps and rotors go bad all the time, and nobody ever changes them as often as they should. Hell, you're probably overdue for a set anyway.

 

There are many possibilities as to what may have caused the fuel in the oil. I am starting you with the simplest and most likely cause. I want you to verify spark at more than one plug, before you do anything else. Yes, the ECM could have failed, causing injectors to stay open. How common is this? Very rare. Therefore, it is unlikely that this is your problem.

You may also have a failed fuel pressure regulator dumping fuel into your intake manifold. Or you could have one or more injectors that are mechanically stuck open. Once we know you have spark, we will move on to these other things with appropriate tests to prove or eliminate each one.

BTW, I wash and wax my Beasty's gorgeous engine bay as often as I wash the car. I have never had an issue. Some of the best shops I know steam clean every car they repair before they begin work on it. I hate working on a filthy engine.

 

STaking off the fuel pump relay was exactly what we did also and checked the power and ground. We did crank the car over with the fuel relay off and guess what there was still fuel coming out from the injectors bcuz of the bad ECM. The ECM caused the injectors 2 stay open. I knew there was still fuel coming from the injectors bcuz the spark plugs we removed.

I'm telling him to 4get wat ASE doc said I was just giving him another possible cause. No need 2 be negative...

 

Removing or disconnecting the fuel pump relay does not prevent the fuel pump from running. As soon as oil pressure reaches 5psi, the oil pressure fuel pump switch will activate the pump in the absence of the relay. That is why I specified pulling the Fuel Pump ECM fuse. This fuse protects the power circuit to the fuel pump and the ECM. With it removed there will be no ECM or fuel pump function. You will still get spark because the ICM is in bypass mode below 400rpm.

You don't have to listen to me and I don't mean to be negative and I really don't have time to argue. I've been diagnosing and repairing cars for many years and have been a GM engine performance specialist since 1990. I can still count the number of GM ECMs I've replaced on my ten fingers. Yes they fail and it always has to be considered as a possibility. However, because there is no way to test the ECM itself, short of swapping in a known good test part with the same part number and PROM, it is standard professional strategy to test for the more basic and common failures first.

I don't recommend that the OP start with testing for spark because it sounds like a cool idea. I do this because I have seen this type of failure with these exact symptoms many times. Thus, it is considered a common failure.

I mentioned cleaning my engine bay because it is a common misconception that somehow washing your engine will damage some part of the engine control system. This is a rare occurrence. Maybe if you did it with the engine running. Otherwise, if you just use common sense and let things dry a minute before starting the engine, it's not a issue. Be sure to wax the engine bay after cleaning to prevent corrosion of the aluminum.

I just realized you said some genius pressure washed the "Interior" of the car with the ECM installed. Don't know what to say about that.

 

im not saying you dont know what u r doing and i am not here to argue ether. i know everyone is trying to help. the negative part was not meant 4 you it was toward Cat Amanigh..

all i was doing was just giving him another option.

hope TA<3er4Life gets his car fixed tho.

all i was

 

i agree with Doc.
in 30+ years of repairing cars for a living, i've seen maybe a dozen or so computers fail where they would lock the injectors on. so yes, its very rare.
most of the ones i've seen that failed & locked the injectors on was because of water, either a door or window gasket letting rain or wash water leak into the ECM, flooding from high water, & a few caused by a bad coolant sensor. usually a water flooded computer is just dead.

 

That's right, we all just want to help. And yes, these early non sealed ECMs are not friendly to water. I've never seen one that survived it. The third gen F bodies are a little better off than some because of where the ECM is mounted. I don't include the ECMs that were water destroyed in my short list of failed GM ECMs. Only those that failed without physical damage.

 

Thank you guys so much, I really do appreciate all the input you are giving me, I have yet to do the spark test, but will ASAP I have just been working and busy with other family matters, Its hard getting around without a car needless to say so these fast replys and detailed instructions are greatly appreciated.

 

I am currently undergoing the same problem, I think it's my fuel pressure regulator. Had everything together, went to start it and had a small fire. Thankfully the only thing damaged was an old vacuum hose that runs from the rear of the air intake/return part to the vacuum canisters. Was scared shitless when it happened, but I noticed after replacing the line and getting ready for round 2 there was some gas residue around the FPR.

 

if there is gasoline in the vacuum fitting or hose for the regulator, its bad.
you can either rebuild the old regulator or replace the complete unit.
if replacing the whole regulator, you can get a stock replacement or go aftermarket & get one thats adjustable.

a fire under the hood is a scary thing, i've had a few myself.
1 was on my own vehicle years ago, the rest have been on customers' cars.
for me at least, the feeling is no different.

 

UPDATE: So after draining the oil pan, allowing things to set and dry after a while the car will now crank and turn over and run. There is little oil in the engine so I will be needing to replace all of it, and I hardly have any fuel left in the gas tank. Should I fill the tank up and see if its continuing to dump into the oil pan? What should be my next step here?

 

you don't want to run it without oil, that can damage the motor very quickly.
if it starts & runs ok after draining it, it sounds a lot like the fuel pressure regulator is leaking. it could be an intermittent leak, so it may take some time to see it leaking. but you still can't rule out leaking injectors, or possibly other things, at least not until you see fuel from the vacuum fitting on the regulator

 

After changing the fuel pressure regulator, the car now starts and runs. The only problem that seems to be in the way is it will occasionally die (Maybe from sitting for 3 months), and the acceleration is a little jumpy. The actual mechanism on the plenum that controls the acceleration sticks just a little bit, should i lube this part?