You guys gotta go and get the new CHEVY HIGH PERFORMANCE magazine. on the cover it shows a pic of a TPI motor and says TPI Manifold For Vortec Heads.. Its a SCOGGIN DlCKEY Manifold. Great article. Its list price in the magizine is $399.95

POWER NUMBERS:
There were three test shown here by a dyno on a 1987 Third Generation Camaro with factoryspark curves and slightly larger 24lb/hr injectors.

Test 1:
Stock 5.7L L98 with Iron Vortec Heads and SCOGGIN DlCKEY'S TPI Vortec manifold. Power was rated at 294 bhp@4400 RPM and 395 lb/ft@3400 RPM.

Test 2:
Test two was the same motor with a ZZ4 Hydraulic-roller cam and LT4valve springs. Power was rated at 307bhp@4400 RPM and 399lb/ft@3400 RPM

Test 3:
Test three added a set of Edelbrock runners and throttle body along with GM performance parts HOT CAM and 1.6 roller rockers.
Power was rated at 347bhp@4400 RPM and 427lb/ft@3800 RPM.

These numbers are directly out of the magizine. There is a lot more info in this magizine including facts like it is smog legal if you hook up the SCOGGIN DlCKEY external gas pick up tube that directs the gas from the passanger side exaust header into the intake manifold. Doesent say anything about being legal in California but it it is I think Im going to put this combo togher with an ATI Pro Charger and reallly make some power.

 

I'm thinking about it here this summer. :-)

 

tha actual peak numbers according to the chart below are 354hp at 4800rpm is the peak. the 427 ft/ib at 3800rpm is correct. deffinately a good way to go and still maintain a relatively stock looking LTR setup.

 

i tried to find a CHP today but there were none to be found i am betting that scoggin ****ey bought all of them in town. They tend to do that and give magizines out free up there. I was wonderikng what the specifics of that combonation were? and if there was any tuneing done to the engine? was it a mass air or speed density? i am betting it was a mass air setup. I also would like to know what runners they were useing? The base number sounds pretty low to me. I was just wondering if they actualy did their own test or if the just posted scoggin ****ey's dyno run.

 

If there's no CARB Exempt #, then I'd advise strongly against it...that is unless you know a smog guy who'll let it slide.

 

from what i read in the article on page 34, these numbers are scoggin ****eys dyno numbers. they ran all stock stuff except for the heads and base. The second run they ran a ZZ4 cam and LT4 valve springs as the only change on test one. Finally on test three, they used a stock plenum, set of edelbrock runners and edelbrock throttle body, also used 1.6 roller rockers, LT4 hot cam, LT4 springs, 1 7/8" headers. The testing was performed with stock 87 fuel and spark curves with upgraded 24# injectors according to page 34. Definately something to look into and still retain a semistocklooking apperance.

 

Nah, you wanna live in The Peoples Republic of California and subject yourself to their facism that's your problem. In the relatively-free world they only care about exhaust output, if at all.

Mine has been smog checked twice and passes easily, better numbers than my '99 V-6 Ranger and not far from my wife's Honda.

Nothing against you 8Mike9, I just really hate CA's laws and the way they enforce them.

 

Yeah, I didn't care much for Cali when I was there. But, be that as it may, the SD manifold has provisions for all the smog stuff since its basically an Edelbrock base. So theoretically, if you could come up with the CARB sticker for an Edelbrock base, you'd be set.

 

No offense taken.

My reply was directed to the original poster, he list's himself from California, if you live where you don't need to pass a visual inspection, there shouldn't be an issue.

 

I'm not trying to be a "smog expert", but again, I'd have to advise against it, unless you know someone who'll let it slide.


I guess my last reply to this would be for all Ca. folks to look at the Smog laws carefully before spending your cash.

 

I wish CHP tested it themselves instead of just using SD's numbers. I already knew those. There are still some issues that I haven't seen people mention, such as the intake path angle issues. Sure it makes power, but I want to know why, and what applications can highlight its limitations. Most importantly, how does this combo relate to a TPIS base and aftermarket heads? I bought the issue hoping that CHP tested it, and found out that they're just regurgitating SD's test results.

I guess what I'm mainly after is some commentary from somebody other than those who built it.

 

I agree with you Jim. The numbers are basically worthless without some sort of baseline. Do they really expect me to believe they picked up 50+ HP with a factory head and aftermarket base swap? I dont even know what the 'stock L98' they had was putting out, they didnt test it. Was it prepped first (and tweaked a little), or was it a weakling that had 100k miles? Even knowing its a L98, you cant stick a number on it that would be meaningful, so where exactly is the difference at and how much is it? Who knows.

 

that is what i thought. Scoggin dickey did tests on their engine that had some serious drawbacks. I know that the car that they put their test engine did not run any faster in the traps than my car with the stock engine. i suspect that there is a problem with the programing or with the fule getting into the engine. I know for a fact that the test car was lighter than my car too. I am not saying that the vortec heads are not well suited to the tpi setup just that their test engine had issues with the tuneing. This was also a MAF setup. there were some serious restrictions with the MAF it compressed the bellows going to the throttle body there was not enough air getting to the engine. Oh yea they also used the stock programing to achive these numbers.

 

I have got to get a dfi for my car so we can get it on the dyno. I have a home made base that I was using before the SDPC bace we could just make a dyno run with it then with the SDPC base and see what we get not the best for compairison but its better then what we have now. I have a mas air harness to put back on my car but I would rather switch to SD or go with the DFI so if any one can help with this Ill get my car to the DYNO.

 

Would the Scoggin Dickey base/Vortec heads combo be a good idea for someone interested in upgrading their car but still maintaining a very streetable and relatively maintenance free combination?

I guess I'd only get results with this in tandem with the proper cam but that would ruin the 'near OEM' quality I'm hoping to maintain. Still, I'd be interested in your thoughts on this... thanks.

 

I just built a 383 with Vortec heads, LPE 74211 cam, SDPC TPI minifold, AS&M LTRs, and lots of other "stuff". Anyway, the car looks 100% stock (I personally like the stock TPI look), drives around town like a dream, starts great, idles great, and gets good gas mileage (22-ish). I don't have a single complaint about the drivability of the car, and I'm assuming (hoping) that it will be relativley maintnece free. It seems like this combo is near "OEM quality" to me. I would recommend it, coming from my own personal experience. I am assuming that it would also perform well on a 350. Don't know if this helps any or not.......

Oh yea, it ran 12.59 @107 with a 1.72 60' at the track.

See Ya....Mike

 

The LPE 211 cam is no doubt the reason for the streetability of that combo.

Interesting though.... maybe I should start saving my pennies?

This car is my daily driver so I'm very interested in the 'maintenance free' aspect. And since I don't work on my car (just not mechanically inclined :-( , its also important that it be relatively idiot proof so I can trust the local repair shop with it.

Stock look is cool too :-)

 

I think that you are exactly right about the LPE 74211 cam being the key to the streetability of the car. The only downside to the 211 was that I had to put some extra money into the heads (springs, retainers, screw in studs, and I changed to Manley valves just for "reliability"). I built the car to be an everyday driver, even though I may not drive it everyday. I spent a LONG time deciding what cam I was gong to run. To save some money, I was initially planning on building a vortec head, LTR, TPI 350, and using the ZZ4 cam, and I still think that is an excellent combination with low 13 to high 12 second potential (but I decided to go 383). I think 75% of the battle is planning ahead and matching up the best combination of parts.

The motor looks so stock (except for red plug wires and jet hot headers) to mess with people's minds at the track, I just tell them it's a 305. I even changed the emblem on the rear bumper cover to say "Tuned Port Injection" (vs. "5.7 TPI").

Later, Mike.....