I have a 1991 TPI L98 in my 1991 Mazda RX-7 convertible and I live in the Peoples Republic of California. I'm building this car to be "smog legal" so I have to swap everything emissions related in order to have the state "certify it" I have some concerns because I'm using a Borg Warner t-5 (manual 5 speed) Did a L98 ever come with a T-5 from the GM factory? I'm not sure if the state of California cares what transmission I'm using, but someone told me that they do, so any help would be appreciated.

 

Uh oh, here IT comes. haha Cool car man

 

Cool ride! :hail:

No, the T5 never came with the L98... but the ZF6 did in the Corvette! It's a much stronger transmission anyway, and as long as you're doing the old hack & slash, you might as well use a transmission that isn't a pile of crap.

I'd at least do a T56 swap. I know of California f-body owners that have put T56 trannies in, and they're still getting stickers.

 

Definitely a cool ride. :rockon:

 

jim85iroc -
for the california l98 owners with t56's, do they sail through smog as if nothing is amiss? do they need to visit the ref. station and get through that way? do they just tell the smog dude that it's a vette drivetrain?

never thought of this aspect in my considerations for a t56 swap into my 91z 5.7, and i'm in people's republic of california too.

 

To the last question, if you swapped in the T56, just dont tell anyone about it. When was the last time you saw the smog tech look at the tranny?

As for the first, thats gonna be a fun one. Theres no car they could certify it as, and if you are doing this right you have to go to the referee... and those people can be real ****** sometimes. Any possibility of putting in the aforementioned T56 or maybe stick an auto in there to get your sticker and then swap the manual back in?

My condolences on trying to smog cert your car. I helped a friend setup an 80 rx-7 with a carbed vette engine, talk about red tape. Just dont let any of them try to tell you its not a legal swap because that engine never came in your car, they will probably say that.

 

madmax-

you must not live in california, you give the smog police too much credit!

I promise not to tell anyone about the t56, but when the smog cop gets in my car and drives it on the dyno, odds are he is probably going to notice that he has to shift it. in california we have IM240, which means they drive the car on an in-ground dyno and measure emissions under load. hence, they will know right from the start as the smog tech has to drive it.

basically, i'm just considering this as a possible swap since it will cost about the same $ as a pro-built 700r4 from dana. kinda leaning back to the 700r4...already have my 71 camaro if i want to shift gears for myself and no smog on it either!

 

a t56 trans will not raise an eyebrow here in ca.its too subtle to catch, im not a smog guy but know a few, also own a small repair shop in socal, it will fly. heres a little info too directly from a couple of them- the database that that is accessed during the initial stages of the test-when the car is described or read as a bar code, isnt as complete or even correct in many instances so there is, it seems, some tolerance when manually entering the vehicles description if the bar code is not with you to provide when smog check time comes around. they are getting there but havent completely boxed us car enthusiasts out yet. a few more barbara boxers and dianne fienstiens though ,and we are doomed. ohh yeah dont forget gray davis, what a piece of waxed fruit.

 

Actually I do live in cali. I missed the L98 in your sig Tell them its a 305

 

The smog techs dont care what tranny your engine is attached to. It makes no difference. I've passed with an L98 and T5. I've spoken to my two smog tech friends and they both say it doesnt matter to them...

You *ARE* allowed to swap engines between car manufacturers, but they do frown upon it. You'll have to take your car to a Smog Referee and have it certified.

And yes Madmax lives in CA, not far from me actually. Dont ever doubt him, he knows his stuff.

 

lb9, l98, 406, 283,-you get the picture-swaps are completely legal if kept in the same engine "family" as vehicle is delivered with. as long as all exhaust emission control devices that were in place with the original motor are hooked up and functioning on the new motor its ok. just dont pull up with that cam thats gonna make him look real close (too close) my 406 has been an lb9 ever since it rolled off the showroom floor-honest

 

LETS BACK THIS THING UP.
YES, A FEW IROCS GOT THE L98 AND THE T5. LESS THAN A 100 GOT OUT OF THE FACTORY WITH THIS. NOT ENOUGH FOR PRODUCTION.
I READ THIS IN THE CHEVY HIGH PERFORMANCE MAG. THEY WERE DOING THE MY GENERATION CAMARO ARTICLE AND THAT TOPIC CAME UP IN THE ARTICLE.

 

Easy on the CAPS 87irocz350

BTW, an L98 will shred a T5, that's why the combo never made it to production. T5 only handles 300ftlbs, stock L98 had 345 so either drive it really easy or get a T56.

 

L98 were not PRODUCDED with T5 periods. People who rage on about the 50 test models is what start rumors and then the endless corrections for people who say that they were made as on option......Lets leave it as NO.

 

sheeeeit my 2.8 in s-10 shop truck shreds the t5. heres a factoid fer ya Q:what car was the t5 first used in? A: its a chevy, it ends in "vette", but it dosent start with "cor" eeewwwww... you got it!:rockon:

 

In Cali, technically, you cannot use an older engine than the chassis, no matter what emissions components (the older engine or the newer chassis) are on it. Stupid I know, but thats how it is here.

 

not too sure about that because last month no 2 months ago i referree'd a customer truck 1990 with a tpi 1988 conversion and it slipped by them but actually you are probably correct about the years to swap only from older to newer. reality is though most of this smog check system in ca, socal to pinpoint- is a clusterfu-k of enforcement drones that after a few years in the game dancing around them isnt too difficult.

 

Blah blah blah blah.

1) California (And Mass) requires that the engine be not older, and be originally available on the "carline" at type of production.
I.e, you can put a 350 in a V6 camaro if a 350 was available that year.

2) The 350 will not shred the T5. Anyone who thinks this obviously has:

A> Had a bad T5 to begin with
B> Should have a auto anyway, cuz they can't drive
C> Never had a T5, and read too many posts from people who
fall in A or B.

I'm running a lot more HP then most of you with a T5, and others
on this board are running a LOT more than me with a T5.

3) There is absolutely no proof that a T5 was available in any
F-body from 1982-1992 with the 350 engine, and from 1977-1981
no manual was available in california.

I did see a 1988 firebird, with an L98 and a 5spd, which appeared
to be 'factory'. Had Vin 8, and the 5 speed looked all factory, including the cut in the floor. But who knows about that one, coulda been a REAL good swap, swapped vins, who knows.

-- Joe

 

Not true in Cali. Thats how you can make the RX7 to V8 swap legal here in Cali, it is. The 350TPI I think we both know was never available in a Mazda. Its one of those things that the referees hate, but havent been able to do anything about so far.

 

Actually, I think it's partly true. there are some things (I think?) that you can only swap if they were originally applicable to said vehicle in a different version. For example, a car originally equpped with single cat may only be converted to dual cat if such an option was aavailable that year. I think???

anyone else know?

 

When I decided to build My V8 RX-7. The first thing I did was study the Smog laws. Here is a link to the Peoples Republic of California’s website that deals with engine changes (if anyone really cares)

California Engine Change Guidelines

Also thanks for all the positive feed back on my car

 

I run a t-5 in my formula and I have never blew one up. and untill I see a vin and build sticker that is verified with a state registered title I will never belive the l98-T-5 f-body combo was ever produced for sale. nomatter what you or auto zone says.

 

T-5's are junk, the only thing that will extend their life is an aftermarket shifter with positive stops.

 

I Have heard bad things about T5's. I know a L98 would make gear soup out of one, T56 is the way to go. There rated for much more power.

 

I don't think I said T5's are great, I said they will hold up to a 350 for a while.

Madmax,

I dunno about that whole RX7 and L98 thing. I won't argue cuz I don't live in california anymore, but If I remembered the whole
aftermarket part, modification, etc deal. It had to either be a part that could be originally offered, or have a CARB EO# for that application.. Here in Mass we adopted the california laws on
emmisions testing, and so on.(perhaps left a few out as well, but its getting to be as bad).

I know a couple guys out here putting L98's in RX7s.. Kinda interesting. I don't like the body style much but I'd love to put a L98 in a TR-7, or a Fiero tho.

-- Joe

 

Well I have been through the process, with an RX7 and a 350. Its legal, they just dont want anyone to know that. If you lived here, you probably saw or knew of people driving Jaguars, Toyota pickups, and 240/280Z's with V8's swapped in, and smog legal on top of it. This state is just plain weird... dont try legally putting a 91 L98 engine in your 92 L98 car, but if the wheels are ready to fall off and the windshield is missing, thats ok.

 

I just gotta say:

" The People's Republic of California "

Is F-in funny as F-ck!!! F-in ROFL!!! .........ohhh....it hurts....... bahhhaaaahaahahaaa...........ahhhhh..... jeez.......

And thank friggin *** we won the war against the Smog ***** here in Minnesota......

 

believe me you aint won no war-battle maybe-heads up theyre still there and scheming away on how to "improve" and "enhance" and "for the children" and "crackdown" and "enforce" and "study" and "work within" and "appoint" and "service fee" and generally spew enough horse sh-t to choke all but the most ballsy of us into the sheep they would like us to be. sorry the way it is is the way it is anything along the lines of smog control measures have always started in ca. and slowly states adopt what we (*** we)in cali have to deal with just the way it is-someone somewhere is getting rich from all this governmental crap foisted upon us no doubt

 

Dont hold back, tell us how you really feel.

Haha.

-- Joe

 

I'm thoughly convinced that politian's were born without....

1) absolutly no common sense.

2) anything even remotely close to a spine.

3) can be bought for less than the average $10 crack *****.


I'll spare everyone my opinion of liberal democrats...

 

I have been watching this topic for a few days and I guess I'll weight in here:

My views on T-5's in L98's

1) I have been told that the T-5's stock maximum torque capacity is lower than the L98's torque output. This, I have been told, is the official reason why there are no factory T-5/L98's 3rd gen f-bodies. I have never checked the specs for a stock T-5 produced in the late 08's/early 90's and I have always taken this as gospel. If anyone has the T-5 STOCK specs, I think this will prove that they were NOT produced. GM would never have let a simple mis-match like this out of the factory - it would have cost too much to cover the warranties.

2) The second reason (and unofficial reason) that there was never a manual transmission mated to the L98 f-bodies was a simply Chevrolet pecking order. An L98 F-body with a manual would beat a same-year L98 Corvette with an automatic transmission. Chevy would have never let that happen. The Vette is to be the King of the Hill.

3) Finally, if Chevy had wanted to, they could have provided a manual transmision for the L98 f-bodies but chose not to. Probably for #2 above. I can assure you that there would be many, many factory L98's with manual transmissions running around today if it were possible to order them. Performance-oriented people would have ordered them.

 

Hey,

Your theories arn't bad but it was purley emmisions reasoning that killed the T5, or any standard for that matter. It started in Califonia with 2nd gens and manuals, and migrated to 3rd gens.

They could have used a different transmission, and people would have paid -- fact is, it didn't pass emmissions with a stick, it ran
too rich.

The 305 barely passed the california emissions test with the T5.

Most every 5.0 mustang with a t5 had more hp and torque then the same years 5.7 f-body. They also didn't go richer than hell when you downshifted.

I blew up 2 700R4's with a tbi 305. I've never blown up a T5 on a 350.



-- Joe

 

i never knew Cali was so bad. I don' understand one thing..WTF does it matter if u swap a different engine in as long as it passes emissions, i to this day still don't understand that rule, makes NO SENSE AT ALL TO ME!

 

i think the lack of options in the tranny dept. wasnt that the cars ran to rich-"rich"meaning the usual in this case-unacceptably skewed exhaust gasses. but was caused by the way a standard transmissioned vehicle must be driven (and we are talking just normal driving behavior here) as compared to how an auto trans car will be driven. here is a hypothetical point a to b trip. the standard tranny vehicle leaves- gas pedal down clutch pedal up accelerate-clutch pedal down, gas pedal up now grab 2nd, clutch pedal up, gas pedal down, grab third-you guys get the point here, that gas pedal is moving up and down quite a bit and with that comes the necessary accel enrichment, etc. plus the operator can make decisions on his her own concerning shift points and rpms. same trip now with a slushbox-engage drive and gas pedal down and its still down and even still its down um ,look its osama, now its thru the floor, thumpthump, did you hear sumthin? suddenly its your dog up ahead, running frantically to bite osamas unit (if he even has one)off. and you have to safely stop in order to avoid impeding your dogs rush to fame-gas pedal up brake pedal down. good dog. if it wasnt for osama there would have been far less gas pedal ups and downs to accomplish the same trip and shift timings would have been optimized for economy-automatically-not saying that shifting an auto manually isnt an option but far fewer chose to select gears like that when they are driving with a slushie(especially when they have no choice in the deal) cuz auto trans. is the only option from the mfg. i think that is why standard trannies get the nudge off the option sheet. not rich but in a way it is, more emissions per mile as tested by the epa drive cycle test than an auto trans.



:rockon: ozzy