Just wondering about this combo-

305
Edelbrock E-Tec 170 heads
SDPC Vortech TPI intake
LT4 hotcam
10:1 cr
headers
ect

Would all this physically bolt togther and make great power?

 

in my opinion if your gonna spend that much get a 350. especially if your rebuilding a 305.

 

I agree, you would get so much more out of a 350. If your gonna rebuild, do it right the first time.

 

thanks- but I perfer 305s

 

why dont you just send me your money and keep your 305 stock? makes just as much sense

 

Why is that? I like the underdog- I think you can get mid 13s with a 305 and a T-5 will last longer because of the lower torque (when compared to a 350). And gas milage will be better.

My old car a 87 IROC 305 (ex players race car) did 14.5 in the 1/4 mile- and because of racing regs and rules- there was very little devaition from stock components.

Everyone does 350s- theres no originality there- but why stop with 350s? Following the bigger is better mentality, Go 383, 396 or 427- just stuff a 502 and be done with it.

I'll admit you'll get a better return for the $ on a 350 but that
doesn't mean a 305 wouold be slow.

 

answer the ****ing question......we don't want to hear this bull$hit 350 stuff.

 

what the hell does that mean its not original so that would mean no car is original, who cares if everyone has 350's theres probably a reason for it...its more logical

 

it wouldn't be bad, but why go with the vortec intake? that's for vortec heads only if i'm correct. I don't know much about edlebrock heads...

 

PimpJetta- I mean original as in "unique" You know the phrase "an original idea"?

Oh and the vortec intake is needed becasue the E-Tec heads are Vortec based.

 

wow didn't know that

 

Looks good, but do ya think the LT4 hotcam might be a little too much? Hrm, would be interesting to see, so hell, go for it...

 

Stuuuuuuuuuuuuuupid!

 

Guys, why make fun of him for trying it on a 305? I'm not takeing sides here in the displacement battle....As you can see i myself have a 350. I look at it like this, its his money. He can try it and if it doesn't work guess what? Then he'll know what its not a good setup for a 305. Then maybe he'll try a 350 later. But for now let him try and see what is best. Is he being different? I'm not so sure about that. But like most of you, he'll probably try this setup and then find something he doesn't like about it later on and then change it. At least, that's the way i look at it. I just see no reason to start flameing someone for trying something. I'm sure some of you are trying to be helpful but if he wants to try it, let him. I'll get off my soap box now and return you to your regularly scheduled program.

Good Luck.

Brandon

 

There is a reason everybody knows you wont make AS MUCH power with a 305 that you would with a 350. If he's happy with 200 HP... then by all means build a 305.

 

a 305 has more than 200 hp, a stock 92 GTA with a 305 5 spd has 230 HP @ 4200 RPM / 300 FT/LB @ 3200 RPM (MM5 Transmission) (10 less hp than 92 stock 350)
87 GTA has 205 HP @ 4400 RPM / 270 FT/LB @ 3200 RPM

info taken from: http://www.gtasourcepage.com/techspecs.html

The only way i would do a 350 swap is if i did a t56 swap at the same time, and i do not have the funds for the 350 swap never mind inculding the tranny.:lala:

Ohh and i am perfectly happy with the power of my 305, faster than my old car (93 Escort LX Wagon). In my opinion the 305 5 spd offers the best power/fun ratio for a stock car! I hat autos, like driving a toy.

The only 350 worth buying:
:hail: LT5:hail: LT5:hail: LT5:hail: LT5:hail: LT5

for those uneducated: http://www.zr1.net

 

i say to hell with a 305 and a 350

 

gee...that's new

 

A 305 isnt that bad of a motor. Sure the 350 is a lot better, but I like the fact that he wants to do a mouse to compete

 

u can build up a 305 nice, well look at willie, they make good blower motors, people just go the 350 route cause typically a 350 will yield better results.

I'm ditching my 350, losing 2 cylinders but picking up an oversized hair-dryer

 

the 350 isn't the only motor option! A well built 305 has great rev potential and fuel economy a 350 can't touch. I got 27mpg (peak) with my 2:73's and a T5 and had plenty of power right up to 7000 rpm. I used the stock 305 TBI and converted to TPI. Then I added some ported/polished 305 IROC Heads, Crane Roller Cam, (stock bottom-new bearings/turned crank/honed cyl). Spent about $1500 complete...very realistic budget, easy project, GREAT results. I wouldn't want to guess hp but it was quicker than both 5.7 IROC's I've owned and beat an LT1 until I hit 4th Gear (He pulled from 2 car lengths back to right past me after that--I thought my 2:73's would help me there!) HOWEVER...I do like my 350's and since it's much more supported by aftermarket manufactuers it's the cheapest horsepower(and has a deeper exhaust rumble than a similar built 305!)

 

I just wanted to voice something for a few little people in here like myself also, but I don't know if this is 871LEIroc's case...


Some of us here don't have the money to out and buy a 350. Yeah, some of you are gonna say junkyard. Well I for one know I don't want some junk yard engine in my car. Secondly, some of us don't have the time to swap engines and deal with hunting down all the little computer problems it may bring up. Look at zepher's car. If I remember right(don't flame me, but I'm pretty sure this is what happend) he was going from carb(or TBI) to TPI and what was planned to be a weekend project turned into months of poking and proding, and finally he got his car up and running and still has problems to hunt down-and that was basically an intake swap. Some of us use our 3rd gens as daily drivers and can't afford to be having it down for months on end just to swap out a silly engine. If you look around there are many options for the 305, true you won't make the power a 350 would, but look at what I've mentioned above. Look at the '302' concept 4th gen. Less weight than a 350, more power than a 350, and higher revs than a 350. 350 isn't always the answer. I hope someday one of you 350 owners will get stomped by a BEASTLY 305 and be like "Hey, what are ya runnin?" and that guy will be like "A 305" and you'll be thinking "Oh hell no" So all I'm sayin is, we all need to get along. Stop just up and going "Get a 350, 'nuff said" and actually helping them out. Sure, someone can suggest 350, but consider what his situation may be. We don't need like 10 people all saying get a 350. /rant

 

I must be missing something.
My LB9 (car's original motor) has 20,000 actual miles on it. It's a two-edged sword, though. I have a motor that is decently "fun" and will be reliable for a long time. On the other hand, I would really like to have more power. I like driving the Cobra and my dad's Z06. I hardly ever get on it in the Z06 (the Cobra just begs for it, though ), but I don't really need to either.

305 defenders, listen to yourselves. You are knowingly putting money into a motor that gives you a smaller return (and has less potential in the end) than a 350 would. You would be spending the same amount of money and getting more performance with a 350!!

Same money. Bigger return. Same money. Bigger return.

We have had lots of posts on here debating the economics of 305 vs. 350 and it has been shown time and again that for a given performance level (lets say about 350 N/A rwhp or more because the 305 would really cost less under that), you can buy a 350 and mod it up for the same amount of $$ or less than you could with the 305 you already own! Not only that, but it is rumored and Ed has confirmed that thirdgenners are, in general, the cheapest cars guys there are--same money, bigger return.

Why do you want to be an underdog? No offense, but that sound like a ready-made excuse in case you lose. And if you're going to build up the motor and be an "underdog", why not go with the 350 in the first place since you will be putting money into the motor?

I wish my car had a motor with a decent size bore, but I can't see taking out a perfectly good motor. However, I do my driving on the street (for now) and I value the manual tranny more than the 350, hence my "choice" of motor. I would love it if someone gave me a 350, though

I know you know this, but it seems that the displacement of the 305 is what's being knocked when that's not the real problem.

We (305 people) are sort of in the same boat as the 4.6L sohc GT/Bullit Mustang crowd in that their 3.6" bore and 2v heads don't give them a lot of options for getting a decent amount of air in. For some reason though, they defend their 2v's and put their money into them. Maybe we should just do what they do--add a blower and nitrous. Of course we would have to invest in heads as well .

Bottom line--I don't like the 305 and I don't like the 4.6 2v. I want at least a 4" bore (I don't really want an LS1) and I think that I'd really like to stuff I rat in my car when the 305 gives.

 

First of all, I think you'll find that they destroked a 346 . Second of all, I posted that same thing in defense of destroking (in general) a while back and you know what happened? This is the excerpt from that previous post.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Beast5spdGTA:
Another thing I think you are missing is your comparison I'm sure is wrong. I didn't read the article so feel free to call me out if I'm wrong, but I'm sure that 302 LS1 had the help of headers, non-stock cam, and probably compression and/or ported heads. If you do that to a 346 LS1 you easily get 500+ flywheel hp and 400+RWHP. So the stock size LS1 kicks the little LS1's *** .


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Um, yeah... I'm not sure why I didn't see this when I read the article the first time, but you are EXACTLY right.

Here is exactly what they did:
"Westech Automotive removed the stock LS1 and stripped it down to a bare block. Afterward, GM crankshaft, lightweight rods, and 11.5:1 pistons were installed. Up top, a set of highly modified Corvette LS6 cylinder heads, shaft-mounted roller rocker arms, an aggressive solid roller-lifter camshaft, and a Z06 intake manifold were added. TTS Power Systems supplied custom headers with 3.0-in. exhaust and performed special computer calibration. Chassis dyno testing revealed a stout 378 rear wheel horsepower at 6800 rpm." They go on to talk about the 18" torque thrust II's, Hotchkiss suspension, brakes, interior, and rollbar.

Yep, you're right, that amount of money could make a stock LS1 go much faster.

I was just wondering if there was hope for my little 305 down the dimly lit De-stroke Avenue.

Thanks for telling me what was in my own magazine article that I supposedly read
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Do all that stuff to a 346 LS1 and I think you'll have a little more than the 302, as Beast5speedGTA said.

The other thing that you have to consider is that that SS that made 280rwhp was probably making 310 or more after 10,000 miles. Would the 302 do that? I don't know.

 

If you already have a 350 the same amount of money should get you better results, but for those with a 305 it costs considerably for the 350 conversion! If you get a rebuilt block the 305 core can't be traded in. If you rebuild you need to find and buy a good long block to work with and pay good money for machining. And no matter what, you need to buy new injectors (if planning over 350 hp) and a new PROM...all costing extra $$, which is more often than not a major issue.

 

Okay... to hell with 305s AND 350s ! Look at my signature. I hate being the underdog... LOL What's the point in that ? I don't like making up excuses like... "yeah but you got 50 more cubes then I do"... "yeah but I get better gas mileage" to which I reply "then what the hell are you doing out here racing the car ?? LOL".

 

lol at camaro6spd. That's what I was thinking...

I love 305s. Just not in Camaros. They're great in S-10s, CJs, and T-buckets.

 

Good lord are we all here to hold each other's hands here???? Sheesh he asked a question and wanted people's response. They gave it and and gave it but now you don't want to hear it...if you don't want to hear it then bugger off and find a different thread that you want to read. My lord if we were all going about and editing what we said to -gasp- not hurt anyones feelings then nobody would get their point or opinion across. So speak ur mind or shut up and on that note......(shutting up)


by the way i too have the 305 and don't plan on an engine swap till i can afford something more like a zz4 or better and i'll sure as hell never take a crap 350 that someone is already done with *in a junkyard* and drop it in my Jenavive. Yes...i named my camaro so bite me.

 

My stock rebuilt T5 ($120 kit with new synchros seals and a bunch of other crap) really loves being behind my built 355!!! And when/if it goes it wont be for awhile, by then it is t56 time.

 

Blackend...I hear you on the cubic inch excuse! If you're racing and lose there is no excuse...it just means you're car is slower! I think we're arguing on a different point. If power is your primary concern then I'm with you on losing the 305 and opting for at least a well built 350. On a daily driver though fuel economy, reliability, and cost is important so a comprimise is found. Some people pride themselves in finding the right balance. I had a car built with low gears and lots of power...but it spent too much time in the garage!!! I like to take my car wherever I go!

 

"that thirdgenners are, in general, the cheapest cars guys there are"

I like when people speak for themselves, and not others.

 

Just another thought on all this......the 64cc chambers in the E-tec heads are gonna make it REALLY hard to get enough compression to support the LT-4 cam unless you cut the crap outta them. Then you are gonna have fitment problems too... Not to mention ya probably should bore notch it to get the advantage of the bigger valves on that lil bore of the 305......losing even more compression. Just my 2 cents....

 

Oh yeah, 305s are unique. I forgot ......seems I was thinking about the silly little fact that at least 3-4 times as many 305s were installed in thirdgens than 350s during the 11 years of production.

 

I agree, just answer the question. Opinions are like A55holes. Everyone has one and they all stink.
871LEIROC, I have no idea if your combo will work.
(Wow, someone admitted ignorance on the board! What a concept!)
But do what you want to do. Most people have crappy 15 second 3rd gens here anyway!

 

hey Chris- BUILDING UP A 305 IS UNIQUE- TAKE TIME TO READ

futhermore- it's 10 years of production- and 87 and up were when the 350 came back and I think thet were in half the Irocs an Z28s- and they wre all autos. so a 305 TPI 5spd is far more unique then a 350.

thanks to all you who where positve about my idea and encoraged me to do what I want. the 305 is not that bad of an engine.

to all the people that call me stupid and ridicule my idea- take a flying leap- I already was familar with your arguements before hand- read my 3rd post.

Modeartor- please lock this thread

 

good luck, i look at it this way...its YOUR $.

Hell i'm still catching heat for ripping out the L98 and dropping in a turbo 3.8, well in 3 week that'll be happening, but who's counting

 

Hey, its your cash. I say go for it if that's truly what you want to do. Maybe sarcasm isn't the best method, but I'd hope all the debate here would make you think a little more about your plan before sinking your hard-earned cash into the 305.

I'm just saying if it were me I wouldn't be as focused on being unique as I would be making the most HP for my dollar. This is a pricey hobby we have, I wouldn't want to spend a few grand and then realize that I could have either a)spent less to get the same amount of power, or b) gotten even more if I had gone with a 350.

Yes, bigger is always better, so why stop at a 350 and not a 383 or bigger? Because if cost is an issue a stroker motor is a lot more money.

Another issue is the physical limitations of the 305. 1) the small bore creates quite a bit of valve shrouding. You're never going to get the same CFM out of a set of heads bolted onto a 305 as on the flowbench, particularly when you're bolting on heads designed for a 350 and therefore have chambers optimized for a 4 inch bore and not a 3.74 inch bore; and 2) 305s have historically never been able to tolerate as much spark advance as the 350....some kind of increased tendency for detonation that GM engineers never figured out. These two factors mean you're going to give up even more HP to a similarly prepped 350 than just what the 45 fewer cubes costs you.

Maybe I've just been out of the thirdgen crowd for too long, but this just doesn't seem like a great parts combination to me. Are a lot of you guys really getting good results sticking Edelbrock and other brand "350" heads on 305s?

 

i see nothing wrong w/ building a 305.. i just depends on budget.
if you build a 305... dont spnd thousands of dollars on heads that wont yeid much on a motor that cant utilize them. If u wana do a 305 just do something mild..... for example get headers, port the hell out of all of the TPI get the stock 305 heads ported and a 3 angle valve job. and then a comp cam of apropriot size... i personally would say go 350 if any lower that low 14s, high 13s are the goal... hell a 305 and 350 look the same who says you cant just say your 350 is a 305....

 

Yeah, and u can also get into power adders.

 

not a bad idea man i like the idea honestly... but if it was me id go with the sayin theres no replacement for displacement.. but thats only for horsepower lovers if you want economy a 305 buildup wouldnt be bad or get the best of both worlds 335 stoker!!