Put a Transgo/Pro-Built shiftkit, PRV, & servo in the Camaro. After getting it back together, the TCC will lock when shifted into 2nd gear - sometimes.

Background: When putting in the kit, I mistakenly pulled the TCC valve instead of the pressure relief valve like I was supposed to. Getting the valve back in was a bear, but I finally managed.

How it acts: When I first got it back together, the TCC would lock as soon as the tranny was in 2nd. With time, it has gotten so that it only does it under moderate acceleration (granny-like driving, it won't do it, for instance), and will unlock during the shift to 3rd (will "flash" as it leaves 2nd). Once in 3rd or OD, it works fine, and doesn't stay locked when coming to a stop.

I know this is a mechanical/hydraulic locking, because I took the TCC power wire off and it still did it (but didn't lock when cruising in OD). I'm not familar enough with the hydraulic circuits to know what else could cause it: Did I leave out one of the nested springs in the lockup valve? Don't remember any extra springs when I got done. Is an o-ring leaking? Did I gouge something in the lockup valve, one of the valves in the valve body, something in the TV? I'm certain I drilled the holes as called out in the instructions, but maybe didn't deburr something correctly?

Any ideas?

 

This sounds like my problem to the letter. I bought a new spacer plate & redrilled it as per Transgo's instructions & I will install it today (if it ever stops raining) as well as go over everything in the valve body while it's out. I will post results.

 

LOL, I did the same thing when I installed my trans go kit. After a few months of operation "under B&M's lockup kit" my converter clutch stays locked at all speeds. I personally would rater have it unlocked in my situation rather then working at all.

I too would like some info on the hydraulic circuits that make this puppy tick. At least enough info to disable the lockup function in the valve body not just unplugging the power source because that doesent work.

 

i wanna know this too, any urls to find out more also ?

 

me too

 

Awhile back, someone posted a diagram of the circuit. Unfortunately, I can't find it now (and inserts are often deleted from achived posts, anyway).

I'm wondering if it's possible there is too much pressure on the circuit when in 2nd. Since the TV increases pressure with increased throttle, does that make any sense? And, in 3rd & 4th, pressure is reduced somehow? Don't know, just wild speculation.

If transfixleo or Pro Built have any ideas, it would be appreciated. Apeiron, have hydraulic circuit diagrams you could post?

 

The Lock Up valve should have gone right back in, along with the nested springs with no problem at all. If it was a "bear" to get in then the Valve is sticking in the bore. You see, the L/U solenoid uses 2nd gear oil to stroke this Valve. IF you are getting L/U on top of the 2nd shift, the Valve is already stroked. About all I can suggest at this point is to drop the pan and Valve and clean the edge of the valve like this: Get a fine flat File and turn the Valve against the surface of the File, holding it square to the File. You are ONLY trying to take any burrs off of the Valve that might be there. Unfortunately it is more likely that the damage was done to the aluminum bore that it rides in but it is worth a try.

 

So Leo, the valve operates "locks the tc" when it is out "pressed against the roll pin? If I were to remove the spring this would eleminate the lockup function correct?
Does anyone know of any valve body books? I cant find squat!

 

When I said it was a bear to get back in, what I meant was holding the valve up against the springs so I could get the retainer c-clip back in. It moved smoothly in the bore.

Remember, I was doing this with the tranny in the car, the car on jackstands, laying on my back. Makes three-handed operations just a little harder.

Also, the lockup works fine in 3rd & 4th - locking when it should be, unlocking when it shouldn't be, so a sticking valve doesn't quite make sense. The lockup usually comes a second or so after the shift to 2nd, not at the same time as the shift.

 

I just bought the reprogramming Kit, with plans of installing it myself....now I'm starting to worry....

 

five7kid,
By any chance is this an '82-'86? If so then you would be dealing with the early calibration issues that those had. The Reprogramming Kit doesn't address that, unlike the "Full" Sk does.
If it did not have that then the only reasons that I can think of the top of my head for early L/U would be a problem with the solenoid itself but that doesn't sound right or a late type VB in an earlier car that thinks the car has the valve line up in the VB for L/U and thus activates it early waiting for TV Pressure to control when it actually goes into L/U.

SSC,
I am talking about the Valve in the Pump, not the VB. That Valve when pushed outward allows 2nd oil to go to the Solenoid where it is dumped until the Solenoid activates, closing the small leak off and that strokes the valve upward.

 

wow so its designed to lockup in other gear besides in 4th ?!

hmmmmmm.......

 

Leo, this is an '86 tranny with early style VB, and the full shift kit (along with the Junior). It doesn't appear to have been apart before, but who knows for sure.

It really seems to me that something with the 2nd gear valve/circuit is overwhelming the TCC valve. Why that would happen is beyond me. Perhaps inadequate flow through the solenoid? That doesn't explain why everything is fine in 3rd & 4th, unless pressure and/or flow is higher in 2nd, perhaps? And, it's not as bad as it was when I first drove it, but it hasn't changed in the last couple of weeks, either.

I haven't dropped the pan again to look for something because I'd like to know what to look for. But, I have another problem with no 2-3 shift under WOT, which I understand is a worn 3-4 clutch pack, so it may all be coming apart again soon, anyway.

 

You may want to go to a heavier spring in the TCC lineup in the VB. With that setup it is just like the other Shift Valves and aparently it is calibrated to shift too early, but it would still L/U and release with the brake. As for the no 2-3 under WOT, is that something that has begun recently? If it is then perhaps you are right about the Tranny but if it has been that way, again it could possibly be a calibration issue.

 

The no 2-3 shift was observed before the shift kit. If it had a problem before the engine mods, I didn't know about it. I'll check tonight to see if it will shift on its own from 2-3 at the stock 4800 RPMs.

I didn't do anything with the converter valve, since the kit didn't modify it. Is a broken spring a possibility? Does an '86 even have that valve?

I talked to Brady at the Transgo tech line, he was baffled, too. The only ideas he had were the clip holding the TCC valve in the pump may have come out, or the solenoid isn't flowing like it should, be even he didn't understand how those could be causing a problem in 2nd only. He did say to check for the converter valve in the VB, and if it has one, make sure it's okay; but he didn't think it would even have that valve.

The mystery continues...

 

Interesting. So the stock spring can be replaced with a heaver spring? I know my 700r4 had some work done before and I could almost swear that the TC valve had a different spring then the other "2" early 700r's Ive had my hands in mine being an 83 tranny. What color and size is the spring?? If I remember correctly the one in my TCV is light purple and about an inch and a half long and the other two were black, a little shorter but stouter.

 

As long as it has the spring you can change to a heavier spring to raise the minimum L/U speed. I am thinking along these lines because it doesn't make sense to be anything else.

 

One more thing, if you have the aluminum plug instead, you can change that to a Valve setup and probably take care of your problem! It is the '87 up that did away with the Valvetrain altogether and solely rely on the L/U Solenoid and ECM for L/U.

 

This lockup after shift to 2nd only started after the shift kit, which makes me wonder if changing the pressure contributed to all this. Still, why not in 3rd or 4th?

It would be nice if installing the valve would solve the problem.

 

If you guys are talking about the TCC valve in the pump, let's not forget the obvious. There are 2 springs behind the valve, an inner & outer. If one were missing, would that allow for early TCC on in 2nd? Also, could the valve be in backwards & still "somewhat " work properly? I'm just finishing up a complete 700r4 rebuild & the installation of the Trans Go 2&3 reprograming kit & Jr kit. I sure would like to see your problem resolved. Elsewise, there could be a land mine out there waiting for me. It seems too many guys are claiming the same problem after installing the TransGo kit. Why is that?

 

I have installed over 500 of these kits & have never seen this happen as did Brady at Trans-Go, he never heard of it.

 

The springs won't fit over the other end of the valve in the pump, so I doubt that's it. And, if one spring was missing, it should cause problems in 3rd & 4th as well (you'd think - maybe not, though).

Best I can come up with at this point is that the engineers still hadn't gotten all the bugs worked out until '88. If yours is that year or newer, you probably don't have anything to worry about.

 

Dana, I believe you prefer working with '88-newer. Brady indicated the '82-'87 trannies have given them plenty of grief.

My tranny has 147k+ miles on it; I'm sure if it was fresh and completely gone through, things would be different - at least, I hope that'd be the case.

 

Mine is the early design '87 & I have the same problem. I already ordered another trans. I would like to resolve this & sell my old unit, though

 

seems you have had a problem with LU before....

"The car is my daily driver, including winter. With the stock LG4 I averaged 19-20 mpg commuting (with a non-locking TCC), mileage has gone down to 15-16 after the engine work. Finally got the TCC lockup to work, will have to keep my foot out of it for a tankful to see what it'll do now"

 

That problem was a lack of 12V power down to the tranny for the solenoid. Somewhere in the engine swap, that circuit didn't make it. In the process of doing the shift kit, I was going to get that TCC lockup working come hell or high water. I also finally learned exactly how the electrical system really worked, and ended up running parallel copper from the brake light switch to the transmission power wire going through the firewall rather than the engine ECM harness through the kick panel (easier than troubleshooting the factory circuit). That is how I know this isn't an electrical issue (just pulled that new wire and drove it), and how I know this hydraulic lockup in 2nd didn't occur until the shift kit installation.

BTW, I'm not blaming the shift kit yet, since I very well could have screwed something up while putting it in. But, with three other guys saying they have the same thing happening, it sort of leads you back to basic design.

Rick, do you know if your valve body has the valve or plug in the converter position?

FWIW, Riley, I'm now getting commuting MPG in the 17's. The improvement could be partially due to the changeover from winter to summer gas here, but part of it is the TCC lockup now functioning, I'm sure.

 

My Kit should be here by monday . I already have the vette servo. the 3000 stall is being made as I type, and the mega shifter just left Summit.....I sure hope I dont run into the same problem as you. My tranny is also pre 86 it's 1983 27 spline. I got the reprogramming kit. Wish me luck it soundss like I'm gonna need it.

 

Only two areas really stand out to me. One is the spring weight for the L/U Shift Valve. Going heavier will raise minimum L/U speed. This was a BIG problem on early type VB's. Perhaps the wrong spring was selected- not hard to do with all of the different springs in the kit. Also, don't forget that sometimes these did not really have the correct calibration, and by that I mean Valve sizes and they react differently. Going back in to custom calibrate is just part of doing one of these as you should see all of the different VB's they list for just ONE year, let alone all of the rest. The other thing is that if a TV Sleeve for one of the Valves is rotated or the roll pin is in the wrong groove you can get all sorts of weird complaints that you will not find in any trouble shooting chart. Also, plugs left out or things like that. As for the lineup in the Pump being wrong, if the springs were on the wrong end you would kill the engine when you put the car in gear. In fact is is a good way to confirm the "front end" is working, converter, pump circuits, seals, etc. One last thought too is to make absolutely sure you follow the SK instructions on the TV setup and that you have the correct geometry for the TV Linkage (it should be if it is original induction system). The VB's with the L/U Valvetrain react to TV or any problem there would affect it.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by five7kid
[B]
Rick, do you know if your valve body has the valve or plug in the converter position?

I have the plug in mine. I have the TCC wired from the brake pedal to a vacuum switch (that closes under high vacuum) & then to the TCC solenoid, The other wire is grounded. I do not have the factory ECM. My problem with TCC L/U in 2nd started after removing the ECM. The problem changed after the Transgo kit was installed. It now flares after L/U going into 3rd. The trans is now so "F"ed up, I took it out & ordered a Raptor. I would still like to sell this trans, but I would like to straighten it out first. It worked fine before the mods.

 

yes as i am also, i think ill have a tranny shop put mine in...sounds like a bunch of people are having probs..dont want to screw up the tranny just want it to work better.

 

Oh Come on...No Guts No Glory..

 

I just finished checking the valve body for mistakes for the third time (a lot easier now that the trans is out). The only thing I found was a check ball that was installed over a hole in the spacer plate that was pluged. In the instructions I have, Dana wrote to plug the hole where he marked on the instruction sheet. After looking at the sheet for about the hundredth time, I realized that ball was over the plug & no mention of what to do with the ball, so I left it out. I double checked the TCC valve in the pump, it moved ok but had only one spring on it. Switched to an orange spring on the 2nd accumulator in the VB.

 

"I double checked the TCC valve in the pump, it moved ok but had only one spring on it"

This may have been your problem. Once second engages oil is fed to the Solenoid to allow for L/U aplication. With one spring there may not have been enough force to keep it from stroking.
Another thing, with no ECM I would have run with the TCC Shift Valve lineup since you had the option being an earlier unit.

Also, why didn't you say you were working with Dana on this? He is very competent and could have handled all of this for you over the phone.

 

I have no doubt that Dana is competent on transmissions, I didn't consult him on this problem because I assumed it was something I did wrong & not something Probuilt or Transgo did. I figured I would have to straighten it out myself, then I saw this post & he appeared to have the same problem so I followed along.

 

In case somebody comes across this in a search, my problem was caused by a small cube-shaped piece of plastic in the solenoid, slightly larger than the solenoid port, which would block the port sometimes and lock up the TC. It apparently was introduced during the shift kit install, and it took me 3 years do drop the pan and check it out.

Actually, it took replacing the engine and transmission, and needing the solenoid for the rebuilt transmission for me to finally figure it out.