For some reason my tires i can only get to chirp off the line. Sometimes i just want to mash it and get it a little sideways but the only way i can do that is around a corner. I have around 275 HP at the wheels? Im not sure yet but its being dynoed. Oh yeah its a 1986 TA with a 350 TPI, mild cam custom chip. It also has the 700R4 and a posi rearend with limited slip and 3.27 gears. I know its good for racing and all but ya know sometimes i just have to have a little fun!

Oh yeah i also have some Fulda tires (245/50/16)

 

i have to same problem, but my 2.73 gears, broken tranny mount, no rebuilds and bog don't help. Also, most of my power is lost through my old, stock TC and tranny. You might need some rear suspension mods on your car to get some of that power of yours to the ground project ta.

~Matt

 

Unless you've got a lot more mods than in your sig I'm guessing you're nowhere near 275hp at the rear wheels. Maybe thats your problem......

 

I was just about to say the same. Your being pretty generous about your HP rating. If you can't spin tires on street tires, you DO NOT have 275 RWHP. I have 271.3 RWHP and I can blaze my tires. I also have a ton more mods and have actually dynoed it.

I would see what it actually dynos, but I'd be willing to bet that you might not even have 275 at the flywheel. What are the specs on the motor? I see you have this in an '86 Trans Am, which did not come from the factory w/ a 350, so somebody built it up. What are the specs on the cam? I'm just curious, because even the stock L98s could work the tires pretty good.

 

The engine i had done a few months ago. It is a late model 350 Block with my old 305 TPI set up on it with new fuel injectors (21lb). The guy told me the cam is a 268*. He said before i had him put in a bigger cam that the engine was 300HP at the crank. With all the other stuff i have done i have just heard estimates that it could be around that but i dont even think it has that thats why i was questioning it. Im having the custom chip done at a place called Blood Enterprises (www.bloodenterprises.com) I have only test drove the car with the chip partially done and it seems more powerfull and is running a lot better. Before i took it in it was running really lean hesitated alot. Im guessing i have only around 240 at the wheels? who knows ill let you know buy the end of the week when i get her back.

 

By the way do u have any pics of your 87 TA? From that little pic it looks kinda like mine but a little nicer.

 

Hmm you should be able to peel out pretty well with a 350. I have a stock 350 TPI in my IROC and I can shred the tires good. Then again I have worn rear tires and a worn rear suspension. And 270 at the wheels seems like a lot for your mods.

 

Easiest/cheapest way to find hp is the track ~$10-15 and you can compare your 1/4 mile mph to HP or a dyno. Anyways if you have stock(factory) suspension and you can't spin the tires with a 350, something is wrong.

Just a fact my '89 GTA 305 5 spd (3.42 gears), w/ ~260 hp(96.8 mph @ 3600 lbs) had WAY more traction than my '91 firebird 305 5 spd (3.73) ~ 180 hp(88.1 mph @ 3500 lbs), with the (EXACT) same tires/wheels.

The GTA(~105K miles) has aftermarket SFC, LCA, LCA brackets, panyard bar, drag shocks, poly-torque arm bushing, VS the '91 firebird all stock except for posi and 3.73 gears(100+K miles).

I'm betting your car has no where near the power you think it does, TPI will kill any power above 5000 rpm. i.e. with a stock TPI YOU WILL NOT MAKE PEAK HP ABOVE 5OOO RPM.

 

my 82 z-28 has probably 200 hp at the crank, on a good day, with the wonderful 305.......... and i can smoke the rear tires pretty good ???????might wanna rethink the 275 hp est.....

 

The only way you will know for sure is to run it at the dyno. Using a G-Tech and trying to convert drag strip E/Ts into HP numbers are just not that accurate.

 

my stock 88 305 tpi 3.23 rear could lite them up real good 130,000 miles on it. pluse I know of a few others that could too. your cars sound more like a '86 305 carbed T/A with 2.73 gears they can chirp them a little but, thats it 210hp?

 

when you guys are talking about how easy it is to lite your tire, are you using the breaks or sidestepping the clutch at 2500 rpms? or if you have an auto dropping from N to D at 2500? His problem just may be hes sitting in D idling and putting the pedal to the floor.

 

IMO* its not if you CAN burn rubber, its trying NOT to burn rubber in order not to lose a race

the smaller diameter tire you have the easier it will be to break traction, anything wqill burn rubber provided there is lack of traction in the rear in which is a BAD thing not a good thing unless you dont care if you get smoked by the pustang next to you

i hate hearing about how ppl can spin rubber off and think that that is a sign of HP, in reality its actually not, getting to end of a track faster than others is way more of a sign of HP and traction

and also you need to think about rear axle ratios, 3.3 is hella lot better than having 2.73 ratio, as far as getting off the line is concerned

 

All I have to do is romp on it from an idle or any speed where the transmission will down shift into 1st gear usually 25 mph or below. My setup even chips the tires at a 2/3 WO shift at 65 MPH.

If you cant burn the tires you A. have 2.73's, B. A fubard tq converter, C. less then 200 tq and 2.73's. My car wouldent burn them with the factory 305/2.73's/200c and it only had 78,000 miles on the entire car.

 

If I am just idling in D and then floor it I will end up peeling out. Same thing goes for reverse. But I do have worn out rear tires.

 

From a stop.

Left foot, lightly on brake.

Right foot, smoothly get into the gas.

Wheels start spinning, left off brake and at same time put right foot to the floor.

= nice big burnout.



Even without powerbraking to start it you should be able to just stomp the gas from a complete stop and at least leave 5 feet of rubber.

My totally stock 350/700r4/2.77 posi will leave anywhere from a few feet of rubber to a doing a full on burnout depending on the street surface when I mash it from a stand still.

 

Or if your really desprate, rub motor oil into your tyres

 

Damn, I wish I couldn't burn my tires. My traction is so s***ty that I can't even go 1/4 into the throttle without sending up a smoke screen.

 

yea when my car still had the tbi 305 in it and it was completly stock with 700r4 and 2.73.... it would spin everywhere.... i left a 50 foot mark in my skoo parking lot...... and i know for a fact they were 2.73 cuz about 5 months after i got it i took them out and put richmond 3.42s in there.

 

higher ratios like 2.73 and 2.41 and such burn off tires just as easily as any other deeper ratio, just that its a lil harder on the tranny and U joints, had a 2.41 rear 79 caprice 2 bbl 305 engine with a million milkes on it and a lil thm200c that eventually blew up in oklahoma during a trip, had ungodly top speed, and could rip up the right rear tire all day long, but well the tranny paid for it in the end,,,

now if was a 3.73 or 4.11 rear well then tranny may have lived a lil longer.

good luck

 

Hey guys, sorry to be off topic, but with 175,000 miles on my stock TC, i'm thinking it's time for a new one. Actually, i'm thinking it's time for a new everything. I'm getting the probuilt 700R4 this summer, and i'm thinking that even now with just a new TC my times would really improve. My tranny gets worse everytime i get on the car. I always used to have to let off the gas for the 2-3 WOT shift, and now i have to for the 1-2 WOT shift. So my clutch packs are pretty much gone, and I also can't floor it below 3,000 rpm due to my cam range and terrible bog. If i give my car 1/4 throttle it will leave the line way faster than WOT anyway though So i know why i can't spin my tires. Plus my posi is broken, and i think a few teeth are gone from my rear . I have the stock 2.73 rear (i think, but my rpo reads i shouldn't have posi either, so who knows) and if i do the drop to D while cruising at 70 mph my rpms are 2550 rpms. That would mean a 2.56 rear . So with new gears (3.42 ) new posi, a new TC with higher stall to get in my cam range quicker, and the new tranny I should be able to spin my tires, and not spin them when i race. I can't even powerbrake anymore, my brakes are too good! Well, all I know is that if I dynoed my flywheel and rear wheels, there would be a much bigger difference than there should be. Anything else I could do to improve power to my rear wheels? Thanks guys.

~Matt

 

LOL, thats not smoke from your tires, thats oil burning

 

lol

 

is the car fast?, maybe you just have real good tires

 

ya the car is fast. it will top out around at least 145mph i do know that. the 0-60 with the old 305 used to 6. sec flat. With this motor i really havent drivin it all that hard except a few times. Its a very quick car but just when i stop completely and mash it again the tires only chirp. But with this new chip it will be running bettter so maybe it was just the lack of power cuz of the old 305 chip with the 350. I left a 20 strip a few weeks before i took it down to the shop but i had to stop hold the brake then mash it, then once the tires actually started spinning i would let off the brake and it would just spin like crazy. I was just currious why they dont spin without using the brake. But like i said maybe it was just the chip. Ill let you know when i get her back-the shops dyno is broken and they are waiting for a new part to fix it.

 

I know you say differently, but to me it just sounds like a severe lack of power. I don't care what kind of street tires you have, if you have 240 or 275hp at the wheels that should be able to kill the tires. That would mean you have well over 300hp at the flywheel. I don't know what your problem is, but if your street tires are holding like that, I want to know what they are.

 

My mild 350 in the sig will bake the tires from a roll. If its cold out, I dont get traction in 1st gear at all, and I can bake them on warm ground with warm tires through 1st if i hold it until it starts to spin and floor it. I have serious traction issues, and Im cutting g-tech times in the 7 second range (0-60) because of the traction problems. A second and a half to almost 3 seconds is wasted baking the tires. This is a 3.23 posi car with 235/60/r14's. This spring Im going to 255's in a futile effort to gain traction. Yeah its cool, but it slows me down. Dare i say Id love it if the weight of the car shifted and it launched hard than being able to impress the ricers with 30 foot tire marks.

 

My 89 305 TBI (with only a few mods) will bark 4th gear with my T-5 and now with my T-56 . Running 4:10 gears and a Strange posi-unit and P245/50/16's. You might need to have that thing looked at.

 

im my carbed 305 (mods are in sig) i used to be able to spin the tire nicely (posi is worn out) before i got my sub box and amps and put everything in the back. and now i can still spin a bit but it gets traction easy.

 

Heres a Moral for your I learned. Picked it up along the way.
oh, and an example to. lets start with the example.

My engine, with a blower, dynoed around 420 RWHP with a carb.
It use 275/60/R15 Tires.
I cannot spin them, on the street.
I cannot spin them, in the heat.
I cannot spin them, on the track.
I cannot spin them, torque I lack.
I cannot spin them, when its cold.
I cannot spin them, so im told.
I cannot spin them, near or far.
I cannot spin them, i hate my car!

why why why? why! Ill tell you why:
BECAUSE MY DRIVETRAIN WAS MISMATCHED TO MY ENGINE.

A powerband of 3000-6500 (234/244 @ .050) does NOT work well with:
2.77 gearing
2400 Stall

A simple gear change, 3.73, was all it took to "wake" my car up. now I hit my powerband quickly, now I spin them for well over 60 feet. I spin them at 80 MPH on the highway. I spin them without trying. Its all about your powerband. a 305 can spin the tires if the drivetrain matches the engines powerband. It just has to match.

good luck!

 

Nice Green Eggs and Ham reference, tal0n

 

Stock L98, auto, 3.23 and my tires vulcanize off the line.

 

hey kingtal0n, would a gear change (say 3.42) wake up my car? Right now with the stock gear and TC stall (1800) and my mild cam (about 3000-6000 range) i am probably mismatched. My engine makes so little power down low it is amazing. That and posi and i hope to be doing some doughnuts.

~Matt

 

<b>and my mild cam (about 3000-6000</b>

thats not exactly mild from a street point of view. mild is like 2200-5500. thats my opinion though. do your power brakes work normal? if so, its probably fine. just do yourself a favor and go with 3.73's if you have a th350 though. a 700R4 is ok with a 3.42 because first gear helps it out alot. the T-56 needs like 4.11:1 to be effective though.

yeah it would wake it up some, but you also need a 3000 rpm+ Stall to match that cam. if it was ME i would simply replace the cam with somthing in the 1800-5500 RPM range... that would match your crap gear and stall, until you can afford better. its what I did, and still have. ive decided the tradeoff in fuel economy alone isnt worth the sound of an idle.

 

Even my little 305 can spin'em from a stop with the idle about 600 rpm, 1st gear, foot off brake and mash the go faster pedal and got a little sideways until it hooked up I'm guessing I only have 230 hp at the flywheel.

 

:sillylol: Don't even think you're getting out of helping me change those gaskets either Mr. Tranny man. :sillylol:

 

if you really want to shread the tires pitch the 350 for a 383, a real TORQER. check out the sideways burnout I did on the link here. check out all the smoke then check out how long the rubber marks go for, to long for the picture. 383's are just way to much fun!!! http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/84transam/

 

My 2001 3.8 V6 Firebird could light up the tires decently with a posi and 3.73 gears and it only 200hp and 225trq, so a 350 V8 shouldn't be having a problem.

Project_1986_TA: I think you might want to invest in a stepper rear gear.

 

right it doesnt matter if you have a 6 cylinder or a 10 cylinder. the right drivetrain matching the engine is all it takes. 383's can make poor low end torque, with the right components. A N/A 383 making 550 horses @ 6500 RPMS will not be able to spin the tires with a 2.77 gear and a 2400 Stall.

 

Thanks king talon. I'm not 100% sure on the rpm range, i'm going to check it out now. I'm almost positive it goes to 6,000rpms, so it starts pretty high in the rpms. The new tranny, TC, gears, and posi will be in by next winter, so my tire spinning woes will be over soon. Wish me luck!

~Matt

 

ok, it says my cam is "off-idle" to 5500 rpms. But i know that my cars is slow as all hell before 3,000 rpms at WOT. That could be my stock intake manifold and still stock (not rebuilt yet) carb. So when all these things are don I will be fine, but I don't know if i am going to do them one at a time or a bunch at once. If i can I will see what exactly helps my car and what doesn't. Thanks guys.

~Matt

 

Well since we're talking about burnouts I think you would like to hear about my best burnout. I was in by buddie's car on the street in front of my house. I hit the brake with my left foot and mashed the gas with my right. Once the car got to about 2000 rpms the tire broke loose and started to burn. *** there was alot of smoke it was billowing from under neath the car and through the t-tops. The entire hatch was full of smoke. I let off the brake and the car comtinued to burn for like 20 feet or so. the rear quarter was covered with burnt rubber and little drips of the stuff was 12-15 feet behind the car. infact the asphalt was torn up where the tire was spinning.

My buddie's car? An 87 rs auto with a stock 2.8

 

Kingtal0n:

So if i have a mild 350 TPI with 3.27 gears then my drivetrain is mismatched? Would 3.73 gears help me? I still havent gotten around to picking my car up yet so i dont know if it was just the chip that was making me lack the power to spin em.

 

<b>"off-idle"</b>

mis-interpretted, that word is.
listen to me, you must.

Off-idle means off idle availability of power. not off idle peak power. Any cam with higher duration is going to make less power down low, and more up top. Off-idle just means it will run fine on the street, (heck 2000+ is fine on street) but it DOESNT mean its going to make good power.

I read somwhere somthing that might help you.

"You can replace lost low end torque with gearing, but you CANT replace high end horsepower."

If you add a cam/intake/heads that are "bigger" you will lose low end torque. nothing but a supercharger or N20 can change that. to fix it, you need gearing. Stall? Stall is necessary if your engine just flat-out cant make power down low, or if it idles too high to sit still. Stall is a "poor way to offset lost low-end torque" and should not be added until you NEED IT. higher stall means crappier fuel econony, and less streetability. the newer converters are getting better about the streetability part, but the fuel economy part is still in the works. 2800 RPM Stall on the street is just plain out bad luck with fuel economy.

So we have a bigger cam, that wants to breath. but if it cant (stock heads/intake) then we lose our lowend torque, and then we lose our top end horsepower cause the cam cant breath like it was meant. then we have an engine that cant do diddly. ( i like that word, diddly)

I have a friend with a HUGE cam in a completelly stock 5 liter mustang. Guess what? below 3K, it runs like crap. right about 3K it starts to make some power. then, at about 3200 RPM, it hits a brick wall and makes no more power. the heads just cant feed the cylinders past that. See? and the stock cam in that was good enough to get him into the 10's, easilly with the right mods. why did he change it? to have a lopey idle. well, he got what he wanted. and now he gets 8 MPG, has a slower car than stock, and has computer problems because it cant handle the huge cam.

<b>The new tranny, TC, gears, and posi</b>
dont overdue the stall, or the gears. match it up. want fuel economy? stick to below 3.73 and 2400 stall. mark my words.

<b>mild 350 TPI with 3.27 </b>
Mismatched? no. not yet. TPI cant handle a big cam. not the stock TPI anyways. TPI like mid range VE%, and it like torque. going to 3.73s will add tons more torque, but it will also slow you down a little. why? your midrange will pass you by faster, because of the gearing, then you will be in next gear and out of your "TPI powerband" while your engine tried to get it back in. Lots of people run 3.73's with TPI, and like it, but all it does is add tire smoke. it doesnt really help as much as people think. likewise, 2.73 gearing is bad too. 3.27's-3.42's are about right for mild TPI, in my opinion.

A chip can do a number of bad things if its incorrectly matched up. if the timing is all wrong, or the fuel map is lean or rich in open loop, if the MAP sensor doesnt correspond with the cam's idle vacuum characteristics... but its not the most common thing slowing down the car.

On a G-tech my car can pull .5 G's consistantly through 1st gear. its got a 2.77 rear gear, and a Th350 (2.54) first gear. that means 1st takes me up to 60 MPH. It dynoes around 360 RWHP without boost, and cannot spin the tires at ALL. it runs a 13.5 Easy.
My black RS with the 305 camaro however, with a 160 RWHP engine, has 3.42 posi and the extra low 3.0x 700R4's first gear. i can ride it to only 24 MPH, but its a tire smokin' blazing .75 G's all the way. it runs a 15.5 easy.

so my black car FEELS faster, and it smokes the tires SO much easier, but its indefinatelly slower (15.5). while my fast car can run a 13 without boost, it cannot spin the tires, and pulls crappy G's throught the range.

 

My car has huge traction problems, and my engine IS the definition of a mild 350, which i think pumps probably 200hp/275ft-lbs at the flywheel, and i can light 'em up, no problem.

I use a stock T5 and a 3.73 Posi rear.

(BTW, absolute he|| to drive in the winter )

 

My 91 RS *V6* will spin THE tire. Basically stock 3.1L, factory TC, stock 700R4, from idle to wide open (punch it off the line) with a LSD rear end and I believe 3.08 gears...will spin the right rear pretty easily on asphalt. If you have ANY V8 that won't spin the tires, I'd say somethin is definately wrong.

 

Well i just got my car back yesterday and ill tell you this.... IT WAS THE CHIP ALL ALONG!!!! My car has woken up and halls a$$! There is no problem whatsoever spinning the tires now. I dont know exatly how much horsepower i have because their dyno is still out of commision right now but im taking it back there as soon as they get the dyno fixed.

 

i have a totally stock Lb9 in my 91Z28- the only mods are free ones in my sig-- and this is me blazin my tires

 

and one more for good luck

 

well maybe ONE more