ok guys i pulled the tranny out tonight to check and see if everything inside is ok so i can be sure its a clutch problem. ok well i unbolted the cover ontop of the trans but i realized i need the take the pin out of the thing that the shifter goes into so i can slide it off the rod. well how do i get this pin out? and is there anytign else i shoudl know? thanks guys

 

Small punch drives out the roll pin holding the shift block to the shift runner. Be careful not to lose the ball bearing and spring on the underside.

Then you have to remove the entire tailhousing piece from the case. THEN you can remove the top cover by slowly and carefully pushing away and up from you (output shaft to the right) This allows the shifter forks to clear the sliders

Hope this helps

 

wait? so you are sayign in order to get the cover off i need to take the whole tailshaft off? also with the shifter block how do i get the pin out? if i drive it down then it has nowhere to go. also i just when out to the garage to mess with it and my idiot dad who can't leave my shlt alone is tryign to get the cover off and hes got it slide all forward and i am like wu the ***. and now u can;t even slide the cover back on. so i am wondering wut he messed up? also there are 2 shift forks in this trany right? thanks

 

Yes, that is what he is saying. You remove the extension housing, which exposes the shift rail, then you can remove the cover. It's no big deal, what is it, 7 bolts or something.

You drive the pin out slowly and carefully, just far enough to allow the block thing to slide back off the rail. If you just waylay it until it bottoms against the plate, you're hosed. Drive it down through there, check to see if it will come off, tap it some more, check, tap, etc. Once you get it off, knock the pin all the way out of the block, so you can re-install it from above.

 

You have to take the tailhousing off. There are about 10 or so bolts around the perimeter of the case holding it on.

First though, you drive down the roll pin in the top of the shifter block. It will go down far enough to remove the block, but it all comes out together. Just like RB83L69 said above.

Just leave the cover alone until you get the extension off. If nothing is damaged yet, you'll keep from doing anything to it. I'd hate for you to tap it back into place only to break something that wasn't broken before.

Yes, there are 2 shifter forks in the top piece (there's another one exposed when the tail housing is off.

Good luck.

 

ok guys well i have got the cover off and the tailhouseing and what not. all the gears look almost perfect and all the synchros are nice. so i am liek ok sweet must just be the clutch. so i start takin the bellhouing off and my freind shows up and hes checkin out the tranny and i put my hand on the input shaft and its movin, turns out the bearing is shot to hell and it actually cam out of the case, the frot bearign in the case is shot to. i hope this isn;t to hard to replace, and does anyone know the technical names for these bearings and if i coudl get the at the GM dealer. thanks for all the info guys

 

The extension housing holds the rear bearing in, so when you take it off, it falls out. There's nothing wrong with that. And when the mainshaft (the one the driveshaft plugs onto) has nothing holding it in, the clutch gear (the shaft and gear that the clutch disk rides on) is free to wobble around somewhat too.

What makes you think those bearings are shot? If the trans felt smooth before you took it apart, and didn't make any noise, then there's nothing wrong with the bearings. Just look at what you want to look at, don't go taking stuff apart that you don't know where it goes or how to put it back together or what it does or what it's supposed to be like, and put it back like it was without letting anything else fall apart. It can get real expensive real fast if you go messing with things the wrong way, and have to carry somebody a box of parts you can't figure out how to put back together, for them to clean up behind you.

As you have probably noticed, there's no paper gaskets, only the tubular style gasket. The easiest way to put the cover back on is to put the trans in neutral, and the shifter in neutral, and lower the cover onto the hole about an inch over toward the pass side from where it goes, then when it's about 1/8" from touching the case, move it over to exactly where it goes, and drop it on. That will put the shift rail dogs under the forks where they belong. To put the ext hsg back on, load the shifter detent spring and ball back into the block with some real thick grease to hold them from falling out; lay it in the ext hsg in the neutral position, and slide the hsg over the rail, and poke the rail into the block as you push the block down against the spring, and slide the rail through the block as you slide the ext hsg on the last inch or 2; tighten the bolts; then find the pin hole in the rail and align the block to it and put the pin back in. Chances are it will have gone into 4th gear as you slid it back together, so that's probably where you should try putting the block.

 

i am talking about the bearing inside the case on the back of the tranny, theres no way the tailhousing can hold this in cause its the sam diamter as the gear infront of it. also i am pretty sure they are supposed to be pressed in there. the reason i took the tranny out was because when on it it woudl grind into gear and sometime jusrt driving normal it woudln;t go into gear at all, also if i dumpoed the clutch then went to shift secoudn it woudlnt go in.

 

The bearing you're talking about is the rear bearing. It mounts in the rear of the trans case right in front of the ext hsg. I've seen a couple before. Believe it, the ext hsg holds it in. Look at it. Look at the bore in the ext hsg where it fits to the case and the bearing. The gear is larger than the bearing, since the mainshaft assembles into the case from the front, that doesn't matter. You assemble all the gears onto the mainshaft, then the bearing, then 5th gear, then you put it into the case.

Sounds to me like your old clutch was bad, and there was nothing wrong with the trans. But I don't know too much about stick cars, only been rebuilding 4-speeds since the early 70s and 5-speeds since about 84 or 85, probably no more than 60 or 70 manual transmissions of all sorts and brands in my whole life, so I have little experience yet and alot left to learn. You probably know lots more about them than me with as many as you've worked on and all, so go ahead and do whatever you want, it's your money and your ride. Don't listen to me.

 

ooh man i didn;t mean to come off as a know it all ***. my bad man. i appriciate all your help. i am just kinda fed up right now with this car. i will have to look at it better tomorrow to see wut u are saying about. but what about the shaft in the front were the clutch goes on? thats real loose to. also on the rear the bearinglooks leik the outter part of the bearing moves and the inner part doesn;t. thats why i figured it was shot. and once again i am very sorry for coming off as an *** cause i really do know very little about these things. thanks man

 

That bearing isn't supposed to stay all in one piece. The rear bearing cone (center and the rollers) is pressed onto the mainshaft. The outer race (the piece that fits in the hole in the case) is a whole separate piece, in fact when you buy them, they come in 2 separate boxes. During the process of assembly they remain 2 separate pieces up until the time the ext hsg is installed.

The entire transmission from front to rear is on 2 tapered roller bearings. Tapered rollers require preload. The way the whole thing works, is that when you put the ext hsg back on, it will press that outer race that's trying to fall out, into the case and hold it in place; the outer race in turn will press on the cone; which presses on the mainshaft; which presses on a Torrington thrust bearing at the front where it meets the clutch gear; which has its cone pressed on it; which presses on its outer race; the outer race presses on the clutch gear bearing retainer (the piece the throwout bearing rides on); the CGBR is bolted firmly to the front of the case. The entire assembly of moving parts is supposed to be too long to fit into the case, by about .010"; there's a selective-fit shim that goes behind the clutch gear bearing retainer to move the clutch gear bearing outer race in or out to make the assembly fit correctly. So when it's all put back together, it's much much tighter than when the ext hsg is off. And when the ext hsg is off, the whole thing is doing its best to fall apart.

The correct way to establish the preload is actually to put the ext hsg on first, after the mainshaft is sitting in the trans; then put the clutch gear in through the hole in the front of the trans; then select shims to go in the CGBR behind the outer race, such that with the trans turned nose-up (tail shaft straght down) with the mainshaft free to hang, the CGBR has a gap of .010" or so between it and the front of the case.

When you take off either the ext hsg or the CGBR, the whole thing loses its preload and all the parts are free to flop around. What you're seeing is perfectly normal and does not indicate any kind of a problem.

 

RB83L69, that is probably the BEST explanation of how this thing is put together that I've EVER heard!!!!

Thank you much!! Hell, I've rebuilt mine (once!) and was all confused about why it wanted to fall apart, and although it is back together now, that was one of the questions I could never answer!!

:hail: RB83L69 !!!

and 89formie, if you want to SEE this thing pulled apart, and common areas checked, and rebuilt, get the video from
www.hanlonmotorsports.com Bob is not the greatest host from an entertainment perspective, but definitely knows his stuff. best $17 I ever spent when I was thinking about doing mine!!

This board is awesome!

 

ok well i put the cover on the top back on and all is well, the only problem i had was one of the little bolts was really weak and busted with just 12 pounds of torque, so no there is one bolt stuk in there with no head, do u think it will be fine to leave it or does thast one bolt make a huge difference. also what shoudl these bolt be torqued down to? thanks

 

Dude, just drill the damn bolt out.

 

There's about 20 of them; so as long as it wasn't one of the 2 special ones with the shoulder that locates the cover, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Drilling a broken bolt out of an aluminum casting has got to be one of my least favorite things to do.... extremely difficult to keep th ebit from walking off the bolt and into the casting..... really not necessary in this case.

OBTW - Poncho, thanks for the :hail: , glad to shine a little light into a dark place for you!!