So I am swapping a Camaro drive train into a 79 Malibu wagon. TPI and T5 and hydraulic clutch pedals from various 87-91 Camaros. I bolted in a clutch master and slave setup from a 96 Camaro with the steel line. Was told that should be the exact same, save for the steel line vs. plastic line. My problem is the clutch does not entirely disengage. The pedal moves, the fork moves just shy of 1/2 inch, but the wheels still spin. (I'm lucky the thing was on jackstands )

When installing the pedals with the master cylinder I noticed the shaft from the master cylinder at the top of its travel ended up about 1 inch past the post on the clutch pedal. So I cut and welded the rod so it ended up exactly at the clutch pedal post. I'm thinking this is where I messed up.

So my questions are these:
1)When a clutch is disengaged, should the cluth disk itself be able to free wheel easily by hand, using an old input shaft or clutch alignment tool to try to spin it (with trans not installed)?

2)When a new master cylinder is installed in a Camaro is it necessary to compress the master cylinder a little to get the rod lined up with the rod on the clutch pedal?

Any and all help would be great. I'm hoping to get this thing done by this weekend for Power Tour.

 

1. Yes. There should be close to 1/8" of free clearance between the clutch and the flywheel, for the disc to float around in.

2. Yes.

Which way did you assemble the throwout to the fork?

Sounds like you need a new master cyl now, in addition to putting the incorrectly assembled parts together the other way.

 

Also, which kind of pilot did you use; a bearing, or a bushing?

 

i knew sofa was gonna come in here with the clutch fork pic.. hahaha well good luck with your malibu.. i just worked out my clutch headaches a couple months ago so i dont even wanna think about it.. sofa pretty much has everything covered

 

Thanks for the help!

Looking at the pictures above, I'm pretty sure I installed the bearing correctly. Though my spring guides on the fork don't seem that far bent up, which may take up some slack that shouldn't be there.

I am using a pilot roller bearing on the crank, not a bushing.

So my last question is if anyone knows of a separate master cylinder available to attach to this setup? It looks like its held together like all the later model clutches with the small pin holding the hose into the cylinder.

Here is a pic of the clutch I took after bench pressing the transmission for the 50th time.

Thanks again!

 

Yea you can get just the slave or the master at AutoZone, O'Reilly's, etc. Or you can order them from Summit Racing at a lower cost and you're guaranteed to get metal units not plastic.

The factory line is held in with a roll pin and an o-ring at each end.

 

Excellent.

Thanks for all of your help. Now my only problem is trying to bleed a setup without a bleeder screw.

 

One last question.

What do Camaros use for a pedal stop? I see nothing in, on, or around the car or the pedals from the car I removed. I'm assuming they have to have some type of stop to prevent the master cylinder from bottoming out in case of a leak or slave cylinder failure.

Any thoughts?

 

Same as most any other kind of car....

The floor.

 

Then I won't go into what kind of hassle I put myself through with a fabricated stop...

I should have just bought a Third Gen and enjoy driving it vs. messing with Third Gen transplants into a station wagon.

 

there seems to be a restrictor placed in the hydrualic lines connecting the master and the slave cylinder on models from 93-up which can cause you to "miss" 3, 4 when shifting hard... as the fluid cant return to the master fast enough to allow the clutch to grab... you will not really miss the shift but the engine can rev to the moon for a secound... i think chevy HP has an artical about removing the restrictors

 

I remember that article. They used a really small drill bit to hone the orifice out I believe. I was goign to attempt to do that after I verified the trans was able to be shifted. Still working on that part...

 

98 and up. It's an LS1 issue not a LT1 issue. My 97 LT1 shifted just fine at whatever RPM.

 

i read that too..

 

The clutch slave cylinder has a bleed screw on it., It is just infront of the tibe on top, It can be tricky to reach.

Also, I am looking for metal slave cylinder, anyone know the summit part number or manufactuer?



Steve

 

here you go steve.. same one i just bought.. comes with a brake-type bleeder screw to make things ALOT easier..

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

 

Argh! The Coni-Seal master cylinders are backordered through Summit until the end of June.

Jegs doesn't list it, neither does Speedway, any other places someone would recommend?

Thanks!

 

i didnt even know summit sold aluminum masters.. thanks.. i just looked ship date 6/28.. i might have to get one in the future..

 

I am also having trouble getting my clutch to release. It's close but with the pedal all the way to the firewall, the clutch wants to start engaging as soon as the pedal is moved. The clutch worked in the 2.8 that was in the camaro previously but when putting in a 350, it doesn't work so smoothly. The line has been bled and there seems to be enough travel in the slave cylinder to disengage the clutch but it's still a no go. Any answers are appreciated. Thanks.

 

So a belated update. I tossed the modified clutch master/slave setup and installed an entirely new assembly. This time I did no modifications to any part, save for increasing the diameter of the hole on the master cylinder shaft that attaches to the clutch pedal peg.

In my frustration of trying to put this rod in a place it clearly did not want to go, I broke (read: cut) the slave cylinder tie locks. The slave was not mounted tight at the time, so it had some distance to move. This may have led to my demise.

My problem then as could be expected was the shaft for the slave had NO give, and was well past the clutch fork. I leveraged the fork out of the way, and tried to compress the slave cylinder to pop the rod onto the fork-- no success. I had to loosen the slave quite a bit from the transmission to get the slave's rod between the fork and the slave cylinder. Once there, I released the fork-- and it stayed extended. I had some serious hydro-lock.

So I ended up with a clutch pedal that was all the way up at the same time the clutch fork was all the way disengaged. No movement available anywhere. So I did what any joe would do in this predicament. I pulled the hydraulic hose from the slave cylinder, fully expecting a shot of hydraulic fluid. The shot I got with a quick pop. I surrounded it with a rag before hand to eliminate a mess and a poked out eye or two. I then reattached the line with the hopes that a few backwards pumps at the slave cylinder would eliminate any newly introduced air. This has been a feeble attempt at best.

So the result is still waiting on an easy solution to a simple problem. How do you bleed a closed system with no bleeders available? I'm assuming that in order to make the system bleedable, I would have to purchase a new master cylinder with a bleeder on it, such as the steel ones mentioned waaaay up there, since that would be the highest point of pressure. Is this correct?

I'm questioning this because a slave cylinder would be dramatically easier to swap.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Or I could always just sell it...

 

Chevy High-Perf article mentioned above...
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/ho...021/index.html

 

Just to throw an update out there to save a few headaches similar to mine...

I bought a Mityvac to attempt to suck the juice from the slave cylinder- no success.

I tried the same tool to push fluid into the system at the slave cylinder- no success.

I disconnected the master cylinder from the firewall and pedal, pushed it a few times, and reinstalled it, and noticed the resevoir went down. Now I have a working clutch pedal. If it weren't for the 3 feet of snow, sleeping neighbors and layers of salt on the road, I'd be driving now!

I can't entirely explain why this worked. I took apart a similar master cylinder to see where the line from the resevoir enters. It seems likley that the piston was pushed too far forward when installed.

Thanks for all of everyone's help!