iroc_zz

In case you want to crunch the numbers yourself here are the tooth counts. Keep in mind these are just for the GM world class transmissions, I can look up the non world class transmissions if anyone wants to know.

For the V6,
Input shaft gear - 21 teeth
front counter shaft gear - 37 teeth
5th countershaft gear - 53 teeth
5th mainshaft gear - 23 teeth

for the V8 with the .63 5th gear
Input shaft gear - 24 teeth
front counter shaft gear - 31 teeth
5th countershaft gear - 51 teeth
5th mainshaft gear - 25 teeth

for the V8 with the .73 5th gear
Input shaft gear - 24 teeth
front counter shaft gear - 31 teeth
5th countershaft gear - 55 teeth
5th mainshaft gear - 31 teeth

58mark

iTrader: (3)

so the best I can do is what I've already got? (v6 with stock 5th)

bummer.. but thanks for the info. It's all greek to me

rmulle1986

Question..Doing the swap to T-5 on 92 z28 carbed 350 4 bolt. Never done before, so I am sure i will repeat some questions others have posted.

I am ordering the kit from Hawks third gen, and I dont think it will come with messurements for a few things. Granted, cutting a hole for the shifter is easy, I ment when I mount the clutch and brake, and slave cylinder?...again, never attempted this swap but it doesnt seem difficult at all from all the info i have gathered. Dont see it taking more than a day or say. I dont have a lift, so little harder to install the unit itself.

Any extra info from the guys who have done it? Like will the speedo work with the 5 speed...hawks is sending a world class BTW. again 92 z28. Thanks

topless87

Two things that I have personal experience about the T-5's. 1) - Don't ever use "motor oil" like 5W30 in one. I did and you should see the gearset, it is worn sooo bad that I will not be able to use any gear again. The "motor oil" doesn't have the high load capacity that gear oil has. I can post pictures of the inside of the T-5 that i put motor oil in. It should have the proprietary gear lube used by GM or a similar oil. I don't know if the ATF would have prevented it, but it really was suppose to have the GM 5W30 GEAR OIL. 2) I have always used a 5-6' length of large aquarium tubing to fill the gear box from the engine compartment. You will need an assistant, but it works real good and you can see the oil in the clear tubing. Just my 2 cents. Hope it saves someone from making the wrong oil mistake like I did. And it only took about 100 miles before that thing started whining like a dog!

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

The lube that impresses the heck outta me is Synchromesh. That's the recommended oil for the Tremecs, and I gotta tell you, mine shifts so slickly it's awesome! I put a Tremec TKO in my 69 Camaro a couple of years ago. I also used it in the 5 speed in our 94 Grand Am. Only thing is, I wonder if it'd be applicable for the WC-T5's. ATF is recommended for those because of the paper-like clutch lining in the synchonizers (basically the same clutch material that's in automatic trannys). If Synchromesh is in fact compatible with the synchros, I bet it'd work fantastic in a T5. I'm sure it could be used in the non-WC, just not sure about the WC models.

L695speed

A T5 is fairly manageable with a floor jack as far as weight is concerned. I'd just drop the driveshaft, unbolt the dust cover and undo whatever bolts are holding the torque converter to the flywheel, and there are 6 bolts that hold the trans to the engine. TWO ON TOP. I found out the hard way pulling an engine. I did an engine and trans install on ramps and jackstands, took me (on my own) two hours working both the floor jack and crane and checking everythings clear blah blah blah. If you have everything ready to go it should take a day. I'm doing a manual swap in a 97 Prelude at the moment for my cousin. Its really just tedious work more than anything else. Not hard, just a pain in the ***. Which is why I seek out manual cars in the first place.

rmulle1986

Cool. Yeah It took us 4 days to complete. The motor i have in it obviosly has a larger crank diameter...so the stock flywheel wouldnt fit...we were looking for a truck fly wheel and bell housing..just racking our heads trying to figure out a fly wheel small enough for the T5 bellhousing...but large enough for the 350 crank...we used a 1985 corvette flywheel on it. also could never get reverse lights to work....I love the swap though : )

BTW if you know gear ratios..or anyone els does. Figure this out. I have 2.73 non posi in car with the T5...at 60 mph and in 5th gear. my RPMs are at 3,000...why? Thats ridiculous.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Tach is off or your rear end is not 2.73.

Even in 1:1 (4th), with normal 25" tires, a 2.73 rear end at 3,000 rpm is 81mph...

I'm not sure what combo makes 60mph in 5th at 3k. The whole thing sounds wrong.

-- Joe

L695speed

I was gonna say that it sounds high, I turned 2300 in 5th at 65 or so with a 3.73 gear set. Something is definitely off. My money is on the tach if the rear is original to the car and wasn't messed with. I had a problem with the flywheel as well, we got one that was too big for the bellhousing, couldn't use the original because of the change in the bolt pattern on the crank with the switch to the one piece RMS.

Joe, just so you know...my 2000 Subaru Outback 5 speed manual turns 3400 at 75 or so, so 60 is close to 3K in 5th. So the combos are there. Alas with a smaller motor.

rmulle1986

I run 16 in wheels with stock tires (245) Maybe the tach is off....but explain why when at idle its at 1,000. Edelbrock and I turned the idel up to that. Its a stock tach..but the motor and distibutor or NOT.. the distibutor has vacum secondary. Old school. Its a new motor, and i am tired of running on the highway at 3,000 rpms at 60 mph. the rear came from a 82 camaro coupe haha which had the 3 speed auto with 305 4bbl. Was trying to save gas with the 2.73..now i cant get on it at all with our her drinking like a sailor.

Yeah flywheel was def an issue for a day. We ordered a 1978 monza spider 305 4 speed flywheel. but a guy suggested corvette...bingo!

rmulle1986

I run 16 in wheels with stock tires (245) Maybe the tach is off....but explain why when at idle its at 1,000. Edelbrock and I turned the idel up to that. Its a stock tach..but the motor and distibutor or NOT.. the distibutor has vacum secondary. Old school. Its a new motor, and i am tired of running on the highway at 3,000 rpms at 60 mph. the rear came from a 82 camaro coupe haha which had the 3 speed auto with 305 4bbl. Was trying to save gas with the 2.73..now i cant get on it at all with our her drinking like a sailor.

L695speed

If you have access to a way of measuring RPMs that is independent of the gauges try that. I know stock tire and wheel combos are generally right at 26 inches give or take a tenth. BUT...the speedo is what would be off if the wheels are off. Not the tach. If the speedo is accurate then you have a different problem. This may sound stupid, but are you actually in fifth gear? I've seen plenty of times people think they get top gear but really get third.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Hrmm. 26" tires, 2.73 rear, 3,000 RPM third gear (1.34) would put him at 63mph...

-- Joe

L695speed

It was just a thought Joe, I didn't think it would turn out that close. Perhaps its time to take it out for another spin? If he is mistakeningly getting third that explains a lot. I've seen it happen so I thought I'd mention it. Mainly happens to people who are not familiar with a shift pattern.

rmulle1986

its in fifth for sure : ( but i started widing it out where the tach says 4 to 5 k rpms and it sounds better and more like 2500 ish at 75mph. The wheels and tires are standard size...speedo is correct. tach gotta be off. I was told the tach on third gens have been known to be in accurate. I dont know... always ran a separate tach.

Anywho...i belive its the tach. will check it out when i go back to florida for a visit.

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Yeah, I'll have to chime in and agree with most of the others that your tach is probably way off in calibration. 3rd gens are fairly notorious for the factory tach getting more and more inaccurate as they get older. My 89 Camaro's tach is off by about 500 rpm too high. And from what I've noticed in old message threads on here, the 90-92 tachs seem to be even worse about getting out of whack than the 89 and older tachs. Btw, you did put a pilot bushing/bearing in the back of your crank when you did the changeover right? Never noticed you mention whether or not you put one in there. Your input shaft will wobble like crazy if you forgot to install a pilot in the back of the crank.

L695speed

Ok, like I said, it may have sounded stupid but as it turned out it may have not been too bad of a guess. But if you're def getting fifth then your tach is definitely the likely culprit. My tach wavers ever so slightly but it is generally not too bad. I know its not 100% accurate but from what I've heard, mine seems to be closer than most. Good luck with the tach. There may be a chance it will have to be rebuilt to get it calibrated right.

rmulle1986

I think i will get a separate tach. I already run mechanical guages, migfht as well complete it with the tach mounted buy it. It is tach. be cause I started listening to the motor..and raving to 3k in first just to take off during daily driving made me laugh...lol Thanks though..love this forum for third gens!

L695speed

Just an FYI...I've done a legit 3000-3500 RPM clutch drop (by accident more often than not because I was used to launching a four cylinder like that on hills) and with 3.73s you spin the rears for at least 25 feet or almost all of first gear. And that was with a L69/LG4 hybrid motor. So in short you know right away you its about right.

rmulle1986

haha nice. I live in Downtown Cincinnati..City of hills. People think I am am idiot when i bark tires trying not to roll into the moron yankee behind me. AKA Im from the south..we call them yankees. Gear heads are an acception, we all the same.

rmulle1986

QUESTION ABOUT SLAVE CYLINDER.....I busted mine when I went out to from work the other da. Not hot rodding, it was cold and Car just warmed up. Fulled it with some new fluid while my girlfriend pumped the clutch...i watch as the fluid poured out from ONLY the slave cylinder...eveything els is good. Just the Slave cylinder bad. How much is it usually? and how hard it it to replace in a parking lot? lol

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

been there; done that. It is fairly easy to change in a parking lot as long as you can jack the car up and put it on stands. I paid about $35 for mine, and the new cylinder is aluminum (OEM is plastic).

The hardest part of the job is doing the bleed properly. Read the following:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...ed-clutch.html

L695speed

Don't forget a hammer and something to punch out the roll pin. Bolts are I believe 13mm. There will be two. IMO can easily be done in the parking lot

rmulle1986

cool ok, BWT, how is the slave cylinder connected to the hose? havent called parts stores to get one so dont know what it looks like.

rmulle1986

What is the dowel pin? how big is it? Obviously dont know much as far as the manual cars goes. First swap from suto so working out little things.

L695speed

I should have said roll pin. Sorry. Its towards the back of the slave cylinder. You will see it. That is how it is attached to the hose. Punch the pin out, and the hose comes right out. Then put it in the new one and put the new pin or old one back in once you got it lined up.

rmulle1986

I did all that,,but it still bled from the slave cylinder. Should I turn the pin which is a C shape the other direction? does the hose going into the slave cylinder click or anything when it is in there properly?....also..the part came with a small rubber donut/washer..does that go on the hose before you install slave cylinder thanks.

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

That goes inside the slave cylinder to seal the connection.

rmulle1986

i got it..thanks though. Had to call home and ask

cha_chard

.........so how do i add fluid?

flyitlikustolit

if you mean to the trans, you can add it in the shifter hole (this didn't work for me) or use one of the two holes on the right side of the trans. they are arranged one on top of the other, and the newer transmissions have Torx head bolts in them for your plug, the older ones have a more traditional plug, if memory serves. I used those, specifically, the top one - you add the fluid with a suction gun/fluid transfer pump/siphon pump/trunk monkey/brother-in-law or whatever you prefer. when you remove said device and fluid runs out of the top hole, get a rage and wipe it up, then carefully, CAREFULLY, wipe the threads also. if the fluid runs out after all this, you're done, it's full. plug it back up. if it isn't running out, add more til it does.

I know plenty of people have said add the fluid to the shifter hole, but when I did this, it took a LOOOOONG time for the fluid to drain, and when I added a lot of fluid, it ran out the back of the trans where the yoke slides into. I'm sure you can plug this up and make it work, or whatever, but I found the plugs/holes on the side to be faster and easier. YRMV. best of luck.


now, if you're talking about the clutch/slave, just add it to the reservoir until it's at least half full. bleed the system, pump the pedal, or whatever applies in your situation.

86transamws6350

will 1995 camaro clutch pedal work in my 1986 ta?

86 iroc-z 383sb

can anyone help mee sorry im new and trying to get some answers
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...anny-help.html

L695speed

As James in that thread said, it might hold up if driven without slicks and not driven to death. But you will find, even in a search, for every person that said they never had problems with the T5 and high power motors, there is another who went through 5 transmissions in X short period of time. Months or even a year or two. I debated the same question myself. I initially decided to run it til it blew, but then I found a T56 with just about everything needed for 700. So it all depends on how its driven, and the driver. Others will chime in I'm sure.

L695speed

IMO not without swapping the whole assembly. But then you are playing with getting the clutch hydraulics to work right. Find a third gen one and it will make your life so much easier.

flyitlikustolit

So, I FINALLY got my car running again. drove it around a lot today, all over Savannah - and it works flawlessly. the T-5 swap feels like it came from the factory, no issues whatsoever. As for running V6 guts, still no issues - gears are short, as previously explained. 1st is short, but useful if you're on any sort of incline at a dead stop, or even at stoplights. all in all, it doesn't feel much different than a V8 trans - 5th gear is the most noticeable difference, as I'm running around 2K rpms at 70 mph (not sure if my speedo is correct) but I'm ok with that - it beats the hell out of running 3500 at 70mph. I don't really rip on it, though I will engine brake and run through the gears and get on it. I think it just proves what everyone's been saying all along - if you don't do any standing stop burnouts or launches, this trans will live just fine behind a V8, even a 400+ hp 383 like mine. I would definitely do this swap again.

88WS-6

I read this in the original post and it contradicts my 87 IROC's RPO codes. G92 performance rear axle (3.45 9 bolt) and the "highway" M39 .63 5th gear came from the factory in this car:

protek25

Just wondering......if the gears for the ford and Gm versions of the T5 are the same, can you use the rebuild kits for the ford T5 in the Gms?
Also, Gforce sells a beefed up case for the T5. If the case is the big problem, will this cure, or at least help a bunch?, And will the GM tail shaft work with it?

protek25

Has anyone used the Gforce case in a T5 rebuild? Will it stand up to some extra power or is it just cosmetic? Also, can you rebuild a Gm T5 with Ford T5 innards?

Nelz

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...-t5-t-5-a.html

SCCAjunkie

Since I have seen that the tailshaft bushing should be the same for a T5 as it is for a TH350, 700R4, and even a Powerglide, would this work?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AAF-ALL72152/

I'm also not sure I actually saw this mentioned in this thread, but do NOT remove/loosen/touch/glare at the hex plug on the driver's side of the trans. The fill and drain are on the PASSENGER SIDE as stated above. There is nothing about this in Haynes or Chiltons, but trust me, I know. If you do a little search you can find out what happens...

SCCAjunkie

Update- The tailshaft bushing and seal are available (in fact they were in stock locally) at both AutoZone and Advance Auto (and certainly possibly others) for about $8.50. They are sold together, under part number 5200, in the BCA or National lines. They call it an output shaft seal and bushing.


They also stocked the input shaft seal.

While I had my trans apart to reinstall the 5th/Reverse pivot and clip (I'm an idiot), I replaced both seals and the bushing. I also added an o-ring to the speedo fitting, as mine was leaking, even with what appeared to be a good seal in place. We'll see if it works...

The trans was not nearly as intimidating a task as I thought originally, but it helps to have friends to assist, and you need to READ THE MANUAL that's linked earlier in this thread, lest you have pieces go missing as you're disassembling. We sat and stared and messed with the tension spring on the 5th gear lever for like 15 minutes, until I realized it sits around the shaft (my shaft must've lifted as I pulled the tailshaft housing, and the spring was just sitting in there...). My friend always disassembled transmissions in a big tub, so that it caught any little pieces that fell. Now I see why....

Wiggles

I figured it would be proper to ask on this thread - what exact tool/socket do I need to remove the large square shaped fill/drain plugs? I did a thorough search and someone mentioned a pipe tool? I plan on replacing the fluid this evening and want to be prepared.

SCCAjunkie

The properly sized open ended wrench or an *8 point* socket are the best tools. Honestly, I hang my big-ole-honkin vice-grips on it clamped nice and tight, since there's so much flat to grab. Mine on this trans are not overly tightened, so I used an adjustable wrench (when I finally removed the right plug after fixing the trans).

Wiggles

Thanks for the reply. It never occurred to me to get under the car and try some of my wrenches on it

For the record, a 17mm box-end 12 point wrench fit without damaging/stripping the plugs. The gear oil that came out was very brown so I'm happy I decided to replace it. Regarding adding new fluid once the old stuff was drained out, I see some people decided to remove the shifter and pour the fluid down a funnel in the transmission tunnel?! I used a $15 multi-purpose pump made by Pennzoil with no mess or aggravation.

z28_87Camaro

Wiggles, what fluid did you decide on. For the life of me, I can't decide on which way to go. I see so many people going with different fluids. Drives me crazy. Why can't GM just come out and say... use this, it's the best option...

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

The guy that I trust most only uses ATF. I have it in all 3 of my T5s

Wiggles

I went with 80W 90 gear oil. Purchased 3 bottles, but it took about 2.4 or so. My vague Haynes manual says gear oil for 82-84, but ATF for 85 and up. I recently changed the fluid in my 91 RS, the fluid that came out was chocolate strawberry milkshake, and I used Dexron III in that.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Is your trans the 3.50 1st gear version?

flyitlikustolit

I honestly don't know. the gearset came out of a 4th gen camaro, a 95 or 96 v6 car.