silver3rdgen

Hi. I was recently told that the 1983 T5 is the only T5 that I can put in my 83, 305 Camaro. Is this true, shouldn't all the T5's from any 3rd gen bolt up? Thanks for any info!!

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Yes they will al work. The '83 was the only 3rd gen T5 without a hydraulic clutch, however.

silver3rdgen

Oh! RIght, but but do I need a hydrolic clutch to make another year work on mine?

Jupiter

iTrader: (1)

Once you go hydraulic you'll never go back... LOL
The comfort, the precision, the same feel every time i press the pedal, etc...
I didn't use a slave cylinder and thought this may interest you.
My hydraulic clutch conversion

silver3rdgen

That is great info!! Thanks again!! I am sure I will be asking all kinds of easy questions for you guys.

LG4TA

I don't think any of the T-5' care if it has a hydraulic or mechanical actuation of the clutch. It is dictated by your bellhousing type. I have an 83 T/A with the mechanical Z-bar and you can really feel the engagement of the clutch a lot better than the hydraulic. Hydraulic is just easier to push the clutch pedal after that there is no benefit to the hydraulic in my opinion.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I went to a hydraulic TOB on my setup, rather than the typical slave, pivot stud, and fork mechanism.


-- Joe

silver3rdgen

I've only had the mechanical clutches b4 so this will be new but I've never been bothered by having to press a little harder. Which are more durable?

claydoh

i just bought a 1991 Z28 Camaro.Im in the process of doin some things to it. i noticed while underneath it it had a busted bellhousing,so i bought a new clutch,im gonna get the flywheel machined,but i wanna make for sure i buy the correct bellhousing..... MY QUESTION:WHAT IS THE SIMPLEST WAY TO TELL IF MY CLUTCH IS HYDRAULIC OR MECHANICAL??????

topless87

If it is mechanical, there will be linkage on the drivers side of the bellhousing in the shape of a "Z", if it is hydraulic there will be a cylinder, much like a brake wheel cylinder mounted to a flat pad on the drivers side that pushes in on the clutch fork. There is a plastic line about 3/8 in diameter going up the front of the firewall, and don't break it as it is a very hard item to find. The "slave" cylinder as it is called is mounted on the drivers side of the bellhousing and has a metal heat shield to keep exhaust heat away from it. Simply put if you don't see mechanical linkage then it is hydraulic. I put a Wagner cylinder on my '87 vert because it is made of aluminum and doesn't need the heat shield. Hope this helps. topless87

topless87

I'm pretty 99.9% sure that after 83 they were all hydraulic so I would bet yours is too. Your slave cylinder will be hard to see since the heat shield hides it but look for the plastic line that snakes its way up from the drivers side of the bellhousing to the firewall and up to the back of the powerbrake booster area.

topless87

You should be able to see a small round resevoir mounted up by the brake master cylinder that holds brake fluid that runs the clutch too. You can see it by just opening the hood and looking for an extra resevoir other than the master cylinder. It is about 2-3" in diameter and is white and round.

claydoh

i just went out and crawled under it and yes it is hydraulic.

claydoh

i have a 91 camaro w a t5...whats the easiest way to tell if its a WC or NON WC and also i just bought 80/90 gear oil to put in my trans is that okay?

SCCAjunkie

Check the tag on the side of the trans, and compare the numbers to the list found at the beginning of this thread. (so long as the tag is original to that trans)

If it's the original trans for that car, it should be a WC.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Easiest way to tell about that stupid "PIT team" "Total Quality Management" "ISO9000" "World Class" : pppppuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuukkkkkkke : BS (that 80s "1-Minute Manger" buzzword crap just makes me physically sick to my stomach.... I refuse to use it, I prefer to call them "1st design" and "2nd design" just so I don't toss my cookies) is to look at the front countergear bearing.



Top is 1st design, bottom is 2nd. The countergear bearing is the round shiny object about 2" in diameter near the bottom of the front of the case. The 1st design one is shiny and flat, except that the edges look sort of "rolled over", like a freeze plug. The 2nd design has a dull finish with sharp edges and the center sunk in a few .001"s, such that it looks like it has a "step" in it. The case front casting details also look different.

You can see it with the trans still in the car.

I'm not much of a fan of "tags" and "codes" and all such as that. Too easy to change them or mix parts up, and too hard to be CERTAIN that whatever reference you're using to look them up, is accurate (since the vast majority of them on the Internet didn't come from the mfr or any similar reliable source, but rather from anecdotal "evidence" gathered from the public at-large). For me, I find that LOOKING AT THE PARTS THEMSELVES is FAR more dependable.

big gear head

80w90 is NOT correct for the T5 transmission. Most use ATF or syncromesh oil.

SCCAjunkie

I agree 100%, but I wasn't aware you could see the bearing cover with the trans in the car. Good to know, and I guess I'll have to pay better attention next time I'm under there...

claydoh

these are the #'s i found on it...i already got the new bellhousing bolted to it so if i could tell without removing it that would be great.....

13-52-065-909
13-52-066-923
and a white tag reading WG 13-52-028

it also has a metal tag bolted to tailhousing.

claydoh

.

claydoh

http://s1287.beta.photobucket.com/us...ydoh1/library/

claydoh

OKAY I FINALLY BROKE DOWN AND TOOK OFF THE BELLHOUSING AND IT IS DEFINITELY THE 2ND DESIGN.YOU GUYS CAN LOOK AT THE NEW PICS ON PHOTOBUCKET.WHATS WEIRD IS ALL THE IDENTIFYING #'S REFER ME TO THE EARLY 80'S THOUGH ON YOUR CHART ON 1ST PAGE OF THIS THREAD????????

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

You can't "rebuild" the early design into the late design, or vice-versa.

The bearing proves beyond any trace of doubt that yours is 1st design. No other possibility exists. Not sure what you could be seeing that would make you think otherwise?

claydoh

look at these 2 pics right here with the bellhousing off...according to the chart above mine is a 2nd design world class.


http://s1287.beta.photobucket.com/us...tml?sort=3&o=4


http://s1287.beta.photobucket.com/us...tml?sort=3&o=3

claydoh

thank you.

claydoh

"click" like. lol

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

First, a question:

For someone who has neither part, what are some aftermarket P/Ns for the trans and cat halves of the exhaust hanger assembly? I've seen several cat ends, but I don't see any pics of the other P/N that pops up in searches for the hanger, which I assume to be the trans end.

Second, a bit of info:

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO REPLACE THE SLAVE CYLINDER IF YOU POP IT ON ACCIDENT BY PRESSING ON THE PEDAL WITH THE SLAVE DISCONNECTED FROM THE BELL.

Pull the boot off of the housing and the pushrod, piston, seal, and whatever fluid is left in the system will come out (may be a spring in there as well, going to have to wait until I get the spare out). Just like reassembling a master cylinder or drum brake cylinder, the seal goes in flat side towards the pushrod (cup side towards the pipe end of the cylinder), piston next, pushrod after that, and then the boot. Install the cylinder and refill the reservoir. Leave the cap off of the reservoir and push in on the slave cylinder pushrod to draw the fluid down to the cylinder. You will need to refill the reservoir a couple times. This is also the way I bleed the system when it gets air in it (because I couldn't find the bleeder screw the first time I popped the thing!).

I've popped the slave a couple times, when I first put in my T-5. Doubters will want to note that I'm still using the same clutch hydraulic assembly I put in back in 2006, with 30K on it since I first put it in, and I have NEVER replaced ANYTHING in the hydraulic system (or the entire clutch system for that matter... Had the flywheel resurfaced and cleaned up the clutch plate with a sanding block).

I can post pics later of this, when I dig the spare hydraulic set out.

Also, the slave cylinder bracket on a V6 interferes with the installation of PaceSetter (and possibly others, but those others are few and far between) headers. The clearance between the primary on the #6 and the slave cylinder is very close. The bracket gets removed and a couple nuts inserted in its place to hold the slave to the bell, and some heat wrap put on the slave (haven't done that yet, though ).

conman55

I am looking to install a T5 onto my '82 2.5 L Camaro. What do I need to look for and confirm before finding a compatible T5?

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Make sure it's a 1983-92 Camaro or Firebird specific T5, and for a V6 application, you'll need one with the 14 spline input shaft. 1988 and newer are the best ones to get, as they're the World Class versions, which are a bit stronger and smoother shifting than the earlier, non-WC ones. You're really fortunate that you need a V6 one. They're like a rash all over Ebay for $200 or less. The 28 spline, V8 T5's are starting to go for a king's ransom these days!

conman55

Thank you for the reply.

I've been looking far and wide for a T5 and haven't had much success. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the 14 spline trannys were 3rd gen and 26 spline was 4th, right? I'm seeing more 26 spline trannys out there without much indication if they were 3rd or 4th gen.

I'm not seeing very many options on Ebay right now...mainly Ford T5 trannys. Perhaps I am searching too shallow?

Thanks again!

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

14 spline T5s in f-bodies were for V6. The V8 version had the finer spline on the input shaft.

conman55

Thanks for the clarification.

Since I am running an '82, I am limited to the mechanical linkage clutch so finding the right bellhousing is my issue now. How finicky are the T5s bolting up to other bellhousings?

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Yeah, the bellhousing you're after is somewhat hard to come by since it was only used for a couple of years. Ebay would be the best place to look for one. As far as the spline count goes, you have to be careful, and make sure you're getting a 3rd gen model. The 4th gen, V6 T5's actually used the 26 spline input, but they don't fit a 3rd gen properly. All 3rd gen, V6 T5's use the 14 spline input, and all 3rd gen, V8 T5's are 26 spline. As far as trans-to-bellhousing fit, the T5's have the common pattern for just about all SBC bellhousings. However, the problem is that the 3rd gen T5's don't bolt up in the 12 o'clock, or straight up position like most trannys. They're rotated towards the driver's side, so the top of the trans actually sits at about the 10 o'clock position. So if you used a run-of-the-mill SBC bellhousing, your shifter would be tilted towards the passenger side of the car, and the tailshaft mount would also be tilted instead of level. In other words, you definitely need the specific 3rd gen, V8, T5 bellhousing! Another option you have would be to get the 84-92 bellhousing and upgrade your clutch linkage to the hydraulic style. A lot of guys have done that with their 82-83 cars because the hydraulic setup is much more durable than the mechanical style. The 82-83 mechanical bellcrank is notoriously weak, and they fail frequently. If you go to the hydraulic style, you'll also need a set of 84-92 pedals. The 84-92 setup is FAR easier and cheaper to get ahold of versus finding the 82-83 bellhousing.

conman55

Thank you guys for the help.

I have nearly all my ducks in a row for the swap. Decided to stick with the mech. clutch for the moment now that I found a V6 T5 bellhousing from an '83. The only wildcard left is the clutch linkage since the setup from my 4-speed Saginaw wasn't going to be compatible. I'm working with another Thirdgener on here about getting the linkage to work with my T5. My question is now, will his linkage from a V8 work on my L4 Iron Duke? Or is it fairly interchangeable?

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

No experience with the Iron Dukes, but I would think the actual mechanical clutch linkage from any 82-83 V-8 T-5 would fit the 2.8 or the 4 banger. The 82-83 bellhousings should be identical amongst all three...Z bar linkage should be te same too....

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Yeah, more than likely the linkage should all be the same no matter what size engine. Not sure if the 83 V8 bellhousing works on the V6 and Iron Duke, but if you got a 6 cyl. housing it should work on your 4 cyl.

conman55

Good to hear.

Yep, I have a V6 bellhousing from an 83. Should work just fine.

dragsta

if you're looking for a T5, just find a guy selling his wrecked GM vehicle with a 5sp. i got a T5 with the shifter & boot for $100 and he removed it for me. it's now installed in my 62, Chevy truck. i then found another at a scrap metal yard which i bought for ten bucks. i sold it for $300 and used that money to buy a rebuilt T5 from another guy which i keep for a B/U trans for my truck.

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

That's OK except the f-body T5 is offset on an angle, with a bellhousing to match. A T5 out of a different vehicle will not be the same.

dragsta

so true... i forgot... BUT you can change the case which is a hassle but doable. you can also change the front input shaft if it has not the correct # of splines. the T5 is amazing. just don't beat the hell out of it and it will last. having said this, they shouldn't put a 'light duty' trans in a factory 'hotrod'.

pure1959

I have an issue with my t5, its bolted to the l03 unit.
It jumps out of reverse any clues?
I sort of think the cluch may be worn the cars done 50k but most of the time you get a grind in first if you try and engage fast, the cluch does not slip tho?

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

That doesn't sound like a clutch issue at all. Sounds more like something inside the trans is worn. BTW, I have the same issue with first gear in mine... probably synchro wear. What I do is I shift into second, which never grinds, and from there into first and/or reverse, and it never grinds.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

1-2 synchro is damaged... Possibly a broken spring. Reverse is affected because the outer ring of the 1-2 synchro is the reverse driven gear.

Ali99

I just pulled a 5 speed manual out of a 88 camaro v6 2.8 motor after looking at it there is lots of slop moving the input and output shafts is that normal or there should be no slop? i haven't seen anything broken in there.

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

There is supposed to be a VERY small amount of end play, maybe .001 inch or so. There are shims that you can add/subtract in the front bearing retainer that are used to adjust the end play.

Ali99

I got lot more play than a .001. Where can i buy the shim can you tell me?

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

They typically come in rebuild kits. I suppose if you went to a rebuild shop they'd sell you an assortment. Or you might just scrounge them from some old units. They come in different thicknesses, and you have to use a dial gauge to measure the end play. Then you try what you think will work, and check it again.

Ali99

I have a problem were when i fully let of the clutch the car dies. Do you think to much end play could couse that problem but when i lift the rear end the car shifts no problem.

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

I am not sure that I understand your problem. Are you saying that you can't get the car to move without stalling? More information would help a lot.

When the rear end is off the ground, there is no load on the driveline, and the wheels spin freely. With wheels on the ground, there is a load on the engine. If you cannot get the car rolling without stalling, assuming that you are doing everything right, it probably means that the engine can't take the load.

In any case, this would not be caused by excess end play.

Ali99

Yeah what happens it stalls when i let off the clutch but when i am holding the clutch in a little bit the car moves. I am seeing lots of play like .10 in the shaft. I just bought the car i dont know if someone took the trany apart and didnt put it together right or what the problem is. I checked compresion on the motor and it was good so i dont know.