So I've been thinking about the various manual trans options with consideration of under 400hp maximum to be the expected power level...for the time being.

Was really looking to do an LQ4 swap but we are going to be house shopping soon and may need to scale the budget back for now.

I was looking at an LT1 T56, but as a toy I don't need the gas mileage or the double OD or the extra weight as I may eventually run time trials. Not to mention it's the most expensive option for clutches and has issues with the clutch engagement, needs a dakota box, crossmember, and torque arm mount.

TKO would be nice as it uses a lot of the T5 components but again after buying everything would be a couple grand or better and still have their shortcomings on install.

Then I got to thinking...Right now just to get things swapped to a manual and be able to focus more on tires, wheels, brakes and suspension why not pick up a WCT5 with an aftermarket case and beef it up a bit. I know the general consensus is to not even bother with them. However, most everyone killing them are either running them way beyond their capability on a stock trans, power shifting, or just generally running the dog snot out of them or have no idea if the owner before them ran the snot out of it.

They fit perfect, you don't have to modify the clutch pedal like the T56, they run the stock 700r4 crossmember, are dirt cheap, no cost for a dakota box, they're light as hell, the shifter lands perfectly where it should, the clutch and hydraulics are cheaper, and if it does blow up then I'm ultimately a step closer to a TKO swap regardless with all the wiring, pedals, clutch ect done.

So am I in left field to think I would be wise to go this route? Everyone says the case is the weakest point and that's only $350 for a beefier case. I have rebuilt manuals before and don't find it hard to do, so It would get looked over before install with new syncro's. What else would be recommended while I'm inside it? I don't plan on doing clutch dumps and power shifts so I'm thinking this may really be the way to go for now.

 

I've had two T5s in my former automatic car. Now it has a T56. I've built T56s for others. Now go back and read the second sentence.

If you'd rebuilt a T56, you'd appreciate where and why it's stronger than the T5.

Your point about abuse hurting transmissions is quite true.

An LT1 T56 doesn't need a different tq. arm mount unless you have an early third gen (you don't) or auto. or don't get one with it.

An LT1 T56 is pretty easy to convert to an LS1 T56 if you go LQ4 later.

You're basically talking yourself out of spending money and a T5 that breaks or a TKO in general won't save you anything over a T56.

Wait until you're in the new house and settled and do the T56.

 

"Now you have a T56 because you blew 2 T5's". OK, elaborate.. You have provided nothing more than you managed to kill a couple transmissions. Not saying I don't appreciate the feedback but I'm just looking for more specific and conclusive information. Where they stock or a full G-Force case and mainshaft unit? Where they clutch dumped? Launched on slicks? Miss-shifted? Lose 3rd? Just cruising and they went unexpectedly? Again, I'm already well aware they are fragile stock and not as overall capable as some of the other options. So I wouldn't be at all suprised or amazed if you frag'd a couple stockers. The question is will they work and live behind my intended application of running roadcourse events if beefed up slightly. However without surpassing the cost or benefit of just jumping to a TKO?

I fully agree, however I have seen T56's killed like everything else. Stock LT1 T56's I've heard are not the strongest units but are agreeably a better starting point than a T5WC. I myself have installed a few only to discover they wouldn't go into second gears and it has to be rebuilt. So $1000-$1300 for the trans then turn around and spend $400 or better to rebuild it after a $350 clutch, $100 flyweel, new hydraulics and the dakota box. So they can be a dice roll also. Weight and cost are again an issue and I am not going to need or use two overdrives. I could care less about gas mileage on this car. What's the actual weight difference between a TKO600, a T56, or a T5 specificaly?

Good to know.

I've been doing some reconsidering here and honestly am doubting if ultimately I will end up swapping engines. I'm trying to be honest with myself, my budget, and my power needs. Keeping the stock engine would allow me to build the drivetrain and then go back to the engine later. I already have an investment in some tpi performance parts to begin with, and ultimately am not far dollar wise from over 300rwhp (cam and intake) vs starting all over again from scratch. 300hp is pretty fun on a road course and I do need to work on my driving more before turning up the wick.

Thats exactly what I'm doing But I'm married, have 3 kid's and sometimes unfortunatly that has to happen.

I might be leaning more towards a TKO 500 or 600 after doing more research. I like how I can use the stock T5 clutch, bellhousing and hydraulics as well as my stock 700r4 crossmember. Makes things easy and reliable. Has anyone had any issues with or know how much this swap changes the driveshaft angle? One concern is my SLP crossover pipe hitting the crossmember if the engine is angled down in the back. I don't recall having much wiggle room there and have a slight collector leak due to a little comprimise that I have yet to go back and correct properly by bending the y-pipe to fit better.

I am still interested in how much a T5 would cost "total install" with a G-Force case vs a TKO however.

 

i have the tko 600 and it was $3000 with all the adapters and what not. using the stock bell housing and clutch is a plus also.as for the t-5 i put mine thruogh some power shifts slaming the shifter as hard as i could,mis shifts,reverse drops(going 15 mph in reverse than dropping it hard in first),you name it i did it.that lasted 6 months with me and would gues the po did the same. i have since learned not to be that stupid because it only cost money.the t-5 can handle some abuse with street tires a not too aggresive clutch and proper driving

 

I too was going to go the t56 route. I ended up doing a complete WC T5 swap for just over $350. That price included the Hurst short throw, clutch kit, everything but the catalytic converter hanger bracket. If I blow it up...mehh, oh well, I'll drop the Muncie in its place. As much as I try to hide it, my Dutch heritage always shines through

Street tires, cheaper "HD" clutch, a good synthetic, and avoiding the clutch bombs should help keep it alive.

 

Alright this is to compile some quick information for myself or anyone else who might benefit. Just looking at pricing without the transmission for new parts. Most prices from RockAuto. Jegs for the clutch pricing which I just chose just for quick price comparison for a cheaper mild perf clutch. Ebay for the Dakota box. Some stuff can be had cheaper for more generic china quality crap.


TKO-T-5
Flywheel - GMPP lightened T5 flywheel $121
Pilot - $13
Throwout - Timken $29
T5 Master - $40 Bendix
Slave - $40 GM
Clutch - Ram Powergrip $287

Total = $530 roughly


T-56
Flywheel - GMPP lightened T5 flywheel $121
Pilot - $13
Throwout - $98 Timken
Master & Slave assembly- $106
Clutch - Ram Powergrip $410
Dakota Speedometer box - $80
Crossmember - Hawks $110

Total = $938 roughly

A question about the clutches and flywheel just to confirm. Both the TKO and the T5 utilize the stock type T-5 flywheel correct? Also both clutches are the same spline the T-5 is 10.5" and the T56 is an 11" clutch. Whats the difference in the clutches other than that. Can the cheaper 10.5 clutch be used for the T56?

 

Not at all. I'm just fascinated by drivetrain stuff and change them around like some people change wheels.

Good call.

Tonnes of clutch release / driver can't drive problems out there. Much fewer "strength" problems. Run hard upstairs long-term without a cooler can hurt maindrive gearset, launched hard w/ the VSS reluctor of the F-body/GTO breaking mainshafts. Neither of which sound applicable to your driving.

T56 is about 120 bare; T5 is more around 75.
Good point. I held myself back from doing an LT1 swap years ago, did TPI and won't do that again but I'm not in a hurry to get around to an LS_ swap just yet (family now; just like you.)

Yes. Yes.
LT1 clutch is a pull clutch w/ fewer options but if it's in good operating condition, works good.

The stock third gen clutch & flywheel can work with the T56 in a number of ways. I'm using mechanical linkage w/ an LT1 T56. Also, the LT1 T56 can take a hyd. throwout bearing as one way (it's bearing retainer is different o.d. so it's specific to that trans.) Getting into the LS1 style T56 opens up other options, albeit with shorter driveshaft requirements and less-ideal shifter position.

PS, you're in my hometown and I'd have talked all this over a beer with you over Thanksgiving if I coulda.

 

Thanks for the info everyone. JMD have you ever been a member over on fastrides.net? So to confirm I can use the T5 clutch and flywheel, Just have to use the T56 throwout and hydraulics? If so that saves a few hundred from the cost of a T56 swap.

 

It will absolutely positively be an aftermarket throwout for that application. McLeod had one years ago that was too deep; probably revised by now.

I might have registered there but it's been years if so.

 

I made a TON of money rebuilding T5s for evryone years ago.
You may as well buy 3 if your going to do a T5 swap!
T56 will handle a ton more than a T5 ever could. Like you said the T56 does have some minor probs but they can be fixed/upgraded.
Get the T56 and all your parts to rebuild it... you will be glad you did.
You better have that car at my wedding in May !!!!!

 

Why do I hear the wedding song remixed with the Knightrider theme song! Here comes the "whir whir" dun did da dun "whir" "whir" bride...Hahaha Congrats man!

I don't think she's going to be back on the road for awile. It's time for the teardown and much needed TLC I've wanted for the car since day 1. I'm not going to be satisfied unless the car looks factory fresh.

Right now I'm just trying to figure out a staged plan of attack for the entire project and am just parts collecting. I need to get the carpet up and inspect the floors to determine If I need to buy another shell or not I guess before I really get overly involved with what I have.

 

i've had luck running a wct5 with billet strut keys, bronze shift fork pads, royal purple synchromax fluid, and a steel retainer plate with approximately 6in lbs of back lash.
my engine (according to the comp camquest program) is around 350hp with 450trq and i've got 10k miles on this set up running the **** out of it