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Need a stout clutch that doesn't kill my hydraulics

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Old Apr 5, 2016 | 09:31 PM
  #1  
antman89iroc's Avatar
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From: huntsville, al
Car: 89 IROC
Engine: 6.8 HSR N2O
Transmission: TKO 600
Axle/Gears: 9" Moser 3.50 True trac
Need a stout clutch that doesn't kill my hydraulics

I'm currently running a TKO 600 which uses a stock T5 clutch. I have used Zoom, Ram HD, Centerforce Dual friction and none hold at the track with hard launches. The Ram power grip HD did the best with a metallic puc design but the pressure plate was so stiff it blew out my slave cylinder and linkage bushings. Not to mention it took a strong leg to hold it down and chattered like crazy. I need a daily driver clutch that will hold a large CI small block. I have an internal balance engine so I can use any style flywheel for 2 piece rear main style crank. I would prefer to stay with the 153 tooth wheel and wonder what the largest clutch disc that will fit. I am now looking at Centerforce DFX or Mcleod twin disc units. Anyone have good service with anything?
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Old Apr 5, 2016 | 11:27 PM
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From: Aridzona
Car: `86 SS / `87 SS
Engine: L69 w/ TPI on top / 305 4bbl
Transmission: `95 T56 \ `88 200-4R
Re: Need a stout clutch that doesn't kill my hydraulics

Go to a brake and clutch rebuilder. Most only deal with truck stuff on a regular basis. If you find the right place, with the right guy, you'll be able to tell them what you're doing, what you need it to do, and you might just end up with something you can slip to launch but that holds.

What you might end up with is a sintered metal or ceramic or whatever they can put together that will last. The downside is you might replace flywheels and pressure plates sooner due to wear of their metal.

The biggest stock style is a 10.75" ('88 Vette application.) With the right pressure plate, an 11" is an option, but you should be looking into material changes at this point. Not stiffer pressure plates. Not spending $ to get 0.25"
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Old Apr 6, 2016 | 07:43 AM
  #3  
antman89iroc's Avatar
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From: huntsville, al
Car: 89 IROC
Engine: 6.8 HSR N2O
Transmission: TKO 600
Axle/Gears: 9" Moser 3.50 True trac
Re: Need a stout clutch that doesn't kill my hydraulics

Originally Posted by jmd
Go to a brake and clutch rebuilder. Most only deal with truck stuff on a regular basis. If you find the right place, with the right guy, you'll be able to tell them what you're doing, what you need it to do, and you might just end up with something you can slip to launch but that holds.

What you might end up with is a sintered metal or ceramic or whatever they can put together that will last. The downside is you might replace flywheels and pressure plates sooner due to wear of their metal.

The biggest stock style is a 10.75" ('88 Vette application.) With the right pressure plate, an 11" is an option, but you should be looking into material changes at this point. Not stiffer pressure plates. Not spending $ to get 0.25"
Good suggestion. I don't want a pressure plate that's too stiff but doesn't have to be stock feel either. I know a 168t flywheel will fit but I'd have to change starter and it could be an issue with header clearance. I believe a larger diameter disc would help but may not be necessary. If an 11" disc and pp well fit my flywheel that would be nice. I'm leaving toward the center force dfx which has metal surfaces and 6 puck design. Less disc surface should increase clamping load which should help too.
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Old Apr 6, 2016 | 07:53 AM
  #4  
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From: Henrietta NY
Car: 1984 Trans Am L69
Engine: Sniper EFI Powered 355
Transmission: WC T5 w/ Steel Support Plate
Axle/Gears: 3.42 10 Bolt Posi
Re: Need a stout clutch that doesn't kill my hydraulics

If you don't have the metal cased slave and master cylinders you may also want to upgrade to those.
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Old Apr 6, 2016 | 09:22 AM
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Re: Need a stout clutch that doesn't kill my hydraulics

What bell housing are you using? (specifically, can you change to a 14" wheel and 11" clutch)
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Old Apr 6, 2016 | 07:12 PM
  #6  
antman89iroc's Avatar
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From: huntsville, al
Car: 89 IROC
Engine: 6.8 HSR N2O
Transmission: TKO 600
Axle/Gears: 9" Moser 3.50 True trac
Re: Need a stout clutch that doesn't kill my hydraulics

I am running a Lakewood bell so I could use the larger flywheel. I think it stands to reason that a larger diameter clutch disc an PP would hold more torque, all else being equal.

I agree with the suggestion on using a metal slave cyl. I do have a metal master and braided line. I don't remember seeing (or haven't yet found) a metal slave cyl. I have also considered using a hydraulic throw out bearing and bypassing the slave and fork assembly. If anyone has some part numbers or suggestions in this regard it will be appreciated.
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Old Apr 6, 2016 | 07:16 PM
  #7  
antman89iroc's Avatar
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From: huntsville, al
Car: 89 IROC
Engine: 6.8 HSR N2O
Transmission: TKO 600
Axle/Gears: 9" Moser 3.50 True trac
Re: Need a stout clutch that doesn't kill my hydraulics

This is an interesting dual setup that doesn't cost a fortune. It's a lot but about half of most.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mc...make/chevrolet

Otherwise, this Center force model is probably about as good as I have found.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ct...make/chevrolet

What I haven't found is "what is the largest diameter clutch/pp to fit the 153T flywheel"?
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Old Apr 6, 2016 | 07:20 PM
  #8  
midias's Avatar
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From: Henrietta NY
Car: 1984 Trans Am L69
Engine: Sniper EFI Powered 355
Transmission: WC T5 w/ Steel Support Plate
Axle/Gears: 3.42 10 Bolt Posi
Re: Need a stout clutch that doesn't kill my hydraulics

Originally Posted by antman89iroc

I agree with the suggestion on using a metal slave cyl. I do have a metal master and braided line. I don't remember seeing (or haven't yet found) a metal slave cyl.
Both are at advance auto parts about 90 for the pair the slave is about 30
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Old Apr 6, 2016 | 07:37 PM
  #9  
antman89iroc's Avatar
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From: huntsville, al
Car: 89 IROC
Engine: 6.8 HSR N2O
Transmission: TKO 600
Axle/Gears: 9" Moser 3.50 True trac
Re: Need a stout clutch that doesn't kill my hydraulics

Originally Posted by midias
Both are at advance auto parts about 90 for the pair the slave is about 30
Ok it's probably been a couple of years since I bought mine so I must not have seen it then. Much better than a plastic bodied unit. I have a hard time believing it wasn't metal from the factory but then again...


Found it, thanks.

Last edited by antman89iroc; Apr 6, 2016 at 07:50 PM.
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Old Apr 6, 2016 | 07:45 PM
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//<86TA>\\'s Avatar
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From: Central NJ
Car: 86 Trans Am
Engine: 408 stroker sbc
Transmission: TKO600
Axle/Gears: Moser full floater m9, 3:70 trutrac
Re: Need a stout clutch that doesn't kill my hydraulics

I have a question.
Your car seems to have had an automatic trans originally correct?
Did you convert to manual and install the pedals ect?
Are you sure the problem is not misalignment of the master cylinder and pedal assembly?
I ask because misalignment will cause master cylinder and bushing failures like you describe. Maybe there are other problems here that need addressing as well.

Aa for clutches, a few people here have used the McCloud twin disc clutches with good results, they are just a tad pricy. Not sure if there are any new options since I haven't been too active in the the thirdgen world lately
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Old Apr 6, 2016 | 07:46 PM
  #11  
midias's Avatar
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From: Henrietta NY
Car: 1984 Trans Am L69
Engine: Sniper EFI Powered 355
Transmission: WC T5 w/ Steel Support Plate
Axle/Gears: 3.42 10 Bolt Posi
Re: Need a stout clutch that doesn't kill my hydraulics

Originally Posted by antman89iroc
Ok it's probably been a couple of years since I bought mine so I must not have seen it then. Much better than a plastic bodied unit. I have a hard time believing it wasn't metal from the factory but then again...

$77 for both use code TRT30 to get 30% off both and order online

http://advanceautoparts.com/h5/r/shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/carquest-clutch-technovation-clutch-slave-cylinder-37821/5360420-P?searchTerm=clutch+slave

http://m.advanceautoparts.com/h5/r/shop.advanceautoparts.com/web/PartSearchCmd?term=Clutch+master
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Old Apr 6, 2016 | 08:30 PM
  #12  
antman89iroc's Avatar
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Joined: Jun 2005
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From: huntsville, al
Car: 89 IROC
Engine: 6.8 HSR N2O
Transmission: TKO 600
Axle/Gears: 9" Moser 3.50 True trac
Re: Need a stout clutch that doesn't kill my hydraulics

Originally Posted by //\\
I have a question.
Your car seems to have had an automatic trans originally correct?
Did you convert to manual and install the pedals ect?
Are you sure the problem is not misalignment of the master cylinder and pedal assembly?
I ask because misalignment will cause master cylinder and bushing failures like you describe. Maybe there are other problems here that need addressing as well.

Aa for clutches, a few people here have used the McCloud twin disc clutches with good results, they are just a tad pricy. Not sure if there are any new options since I haven't been too active in the the thirdgen world lately
Yes, you are correct, 5.7 cars are all automatics from the factory. So, yes, I had to convert it and swap pedal assemblies. Now there can be some misalignment but there are cutouts in the floor pad and the brace arms virtually place the master in the correct position. But it could be a 1/4" off in one direction or the other. It isn't the pedal pivot bushings that wear out, it's the plastic bushing in the master cyl push rod that wears out prematurely with a high load pressure plate. That's the bushing I was referring to.

The original plastic master cylinder blew the seal and started leaking into the floor board too. All of that was before I went to the center force clutch. It is much easier on the release assembly.
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