EastonFrench

Hey everyone. Brand new to the forum here! I just found a 1986 IROC with the 700r automatic that some older gentleman had in storage for 10 years! I bought it for a cheap price, and here is the story.

The guy got the car in 2004. It ran, but had no overdrive gear. He drove it once in a while, just without overdrive. It sat for long periods of time between drives. The one day, he gets in it, starts it up, and puts it in drive, but it doesn't go. (This is how the story was told to me). After it wouldn't go, he parked it where it sat for 8 years. Then he tried to start it again and it wouldn't start.

So. I drag her home, and found out why it wouldn't start. The guy left fuel in it for 8 years. The fuel went bad, turned to slime, and seized up the fuel pump. The fuel pump was literally stuck solid.

So. I have a new pump and fuel tank coming in this week. And I'm hoping that is all it needs to start up.

Now I was just wondering if, from the little information I have, if anyone has ANY ideas what to start with on the tranny, if it does what he said it did. I know I don't have much info yet. Just tying to get the ball rolling.

Glad to be a Camaro owner finally.

Cheers.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

It's a 700R4, it should be thrown in the dumpster where they belong.

Jokes aside, it needs to be rebuilt, period. No one here can diagnose it over the web. Just bite the bullet and rebuild it, or better yet put a T5 in.

someone972

iTrader: (2)

Certainly looking at a rebuild/replace. Double check the fluid level if you haven't already, but if it was having issues before it was parked its prospects aren't good.

EDIT: How many miles on the car?

rsrmoore

I would first change the filter and fluid. Some times you get lucky and all that is wrong is the filter is clogged up with old Trans fluid. When this happens the fluid is not allowed to flow.

EastonFrench

Thanks for the info!
I will surely change the fluid and filter. Thats my first step.

What is the difference between a T5 and the 700r? is it a bolt on replacement??

WHat does a new tranny and a rebuild usually cost?

The odometer says 19k, I am assuming thats 119,000.

sgp0511

T5 is standard 5 speed tranny

someone972

iTrader: (2)

What sgp0511 said. Note that it's not as simple as dropping the auto and bolting up the T5, you may have to source or burn a chip for manual among other things depending on what your car has. The absolute simplest thing to do in my opinion would be to drop the old transmission and bolt up a rebuilt transmission. This may not be the cheapest solution, as good rebuilds can be a couple grand (you can probably find them a lot cheaper, however). I've seen rebuilt 700r4's on my local craigslist for ~$350, although I'm not sure I'd trust the quality. You may have luck sourcing a junkyard trans to bolt up, which is cheaper but risky. There's also the option of rebuilding the one you have. This could be pricey if done at a shop. It can be done yourself for cheaper, but this requires time, tools, and know how.

Dropping the pan to replace the filter is a good start. While you're down there, see how much metal is in the pan, and try and find the serial number stamped along the pan rail. Another consideration is what you plan on doing with the car, if you plan on keeping the stock power levels, or if it's a good time to beef it up for future increases.

EDIT: First I'd try the new fluid/filter, adjust the TV cable, make sure the shifter is working properly and give it a go. Maybe you'll get lucky, if it really is 119K it's possible to have a well functioning transmission, but it looks like this one has been abused.

jazzdadss

Or the TV cable has an issue and burned the 3/4s. If the fluid smells burnt just pull it out. There are a lot of issues it can have but if the fluid is burnt it is useless to do anything to it. Just replace or rebuild.

85Maroon

Hopefully you don't have to pull the tranny, might be a simple fix or you may have to drop in a new trans (thats what I'd do)

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

Car looks good, check the fluid, drain/replace & try it. If need be swap it with a spare.

Fixed the upside down pic for ya.

BTW, I have the same Galvalume ceiling going in my barn - do you find it noisy in your garage?

Camaro86IrocZ

iTrader: (1)

I had that same problem with my '86, Trans ended up rebuilt,, I also had the original bugged prom, which had lower shift points making 3/4 cycle and 4 chuggle along in too low of rpms.. Check your prom numbers, Link about prom -- http://www.gmtips.com/3rd-degree/dox/tips/ecm/prom.htm

EastonFrench

I dont have any issue with noise. We used spray insulation in the attic overhead, so that most likely dampens it a lot. Are you doing it yourself? If so, I suggest getting a laser level. the kind that projects a red line. We used it to get all the screws PERFECTlY in line. The old man is a bit of a perfectionist, but i have to say it looks awesome that all the screws are dead-nuts straight.

bigal55

iTrader: (1)

If you plan to replace/rebuild the 700R4, I would suggest you get a newer core to rebuild. I believe 89 was the first year for the upgraded internals. The 89 and up 700R4s have better internal hard parts which are not normally changed during a rebuild. The better parts are the pump and other expensive internals (can't think of them off the top of my head but clutch pack and spragues come to mind). If you want to keep the car correct then this is a moot point but, if you want the best bang for your rebuild dollar then a newer core may be the way to go. JMTC!

EastonFrench

Everyone's feedback has been awesome! I am a member of different forums for each of my vehicles, and I have to say this is the most active community I have been involved in thus far! Glad to be here.

I'll maintain progress on this post for sure. The fuel tank and pump came in today, but I won't be able to put them in until Friday evening. Hopefully that will get this thing to fire up and then I can do some more diagnostics. keep in mind I have never started the vehicle, so all I am going off of is the seller's testimony.

that being said, I intend to drain the tranny and put a new filter in, I am also going to make sure the T.V. Cable is adjusted correctly. Those seem to be, as per my research, the two things that could be wrong that may let me get away without a transmission swap. If those things don't fix it, we will have to get a little more serious.

Thanks for the help everyone. Heres some more images to keep you occupied!

someone972

iTrader: (2)

I'd definitely say it was a worthwhile gamble, even if you do end up replacing the transmission. Very clean car, nice score!

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Great car. Good luck. And I agree with everyone else, even if you need a trans rebuild, you did good.

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

Cheap is good, we like cheap!

EastonFrench

Ok guys.
First off, this thread is taking a detour away from transmission issues, I don't know what protocol is, but I can start a new thread elsewhere if needed.

Tonight I got the fuel tank and pump in. Buttoned everything up. Filled it with fuel.
I disconnected the fuel lines at the motor, and ran a hose from them into a mason jar. I turned the key on, can hear the pump whirr, and fuel is spit out in the jar. Awesome! I did this process 4-6 times and checked the fluid to make sure it was clean. And it appeared good to me.

I connected the fuel lines back to the motor and cranked. I can hear the engine try to start but it just won't turn over. I threw some starting fluid into the air intake and could get it to start and stay running with starter fluid, but it dies when I stop feeding it. I'm calling it a night, but would love to know what you guys think I should tackle tomorrow.

Cheers

fokeyman

Couldn't hurt to ohm the injectors. I think yours should be around 16.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/atta...resistance.jpg

EastonFrench

Thanks for the reply. I checked the injectors. They are all between 15.8 and 16.0 ohms.
Checked fuel pressure, and I'm sitting at 45 psi when the pump kicks on.

The motor starts for 1-2 seconds and then dies. Every time.

EastonFrench

Checked plugs and wires. And ll seem good.

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

I'm left to wonder if the ECM isn't getting it's signal from the distributor that it's actually turning , and cutting off the injectors because of it ? Since your an 86 we know it won't be VATS cause you don't have it , but I do wonder just what the condition would be if the ECM wasn't getting the distributor's signal that it's in fact running ? As in , you turn the key to on and it runs the pump and the injectors give a quick prime , then you turn the key to start and it starts on the prime but then quits due to the ECM not knowing the distributor is actually turning ?

Please don't take this as a "This IS what's wrong" post , cause I'm not sure and just trying to throw ideas out of why a non VATS car would fail to enable the injectors , and a lost EST signal was the first thing that popped into my mind .

You have checked the easy stuff , the ECM fuse on the fender and the injector fuses "Inj 1" and "inj 2" in the fusebox , yes ?

And , since you have a VOM you used for the resistance checks , is there +12V on one side of the injectors with the key in the run position ?

EastonFrench

The whole "starting on prime, but no more" theory lines up perfectly with what's happening.

What ECM fuse on the fender do you speak of? The fuses in the fuse panel all check out.

Putting new plugs in now

EastonFrench

New plugs, cap, and rotor. Still won't turn over. Tries a little bit but won't go.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

With the key on and engine off is the check engine light on?

Camaro86IrocZ

iTrader: (1)

Try holding the accelerator pedal 1/4 to half way when cranking, seems to help on mine at times.. Also says this on the sticker on the back side of sun visor if still there..

EastonFrench

Hey 1Meanz

I do have a service engine soon light with the key on!

I don't have an OBD 1 tester, but I put the paper clip on the terminals and it just keeps blinking code 12. Which I understood meant there is no codes?

fokeyman

Correct, no codes stored.

Not sure if starter fluid could ignite without spark, but did you make sure you have spark with your good wires/plugs?

EastonFrench

We plugged an in-line spark plug tester into each cylinder the type that you put between the plug and the wire and it lights up. Each cylinder appears to have good spark.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Good possibility that the injectors are stuck shut.

RBob.

EastonFrench

RBob,
I pulled the injectors out. Which sucked! But I'm glad I did. I wanted to test them, so I put them in my mouth while running a positive and negative wire from the battery to the injector and blowing as hard as I could. 4 spit out easy clear fuel when I touched power to it, and four others were gunned up full of orange fuel and very tough to blow on.

Ordered new injectors. Should be here Thursday!

Thanks to all of you!