sullybear

I have an 1983 Firebird originally V6 T5 mechanical clutch car. Swapped in mild L69 HO305, 87 Hanlon rebuilt T5, 87 factory Bellhousing, flywheel, and fork. Phoenix Friction stage 2 clutch. Hawks repro 4th gen pedals, Hawks adjustable HD Master cylinder and clutch slave, Install was a beast but is in and runs. Problem is that the clutch grabs just off the floor, and you have to push the the pedal through the floor to disengage. Many tech requests to Hawks and Tilton have not yielded a solution. Is it a geometry issue. Would moving the rod attachment lower on the clutch lever help?. Do I need to lengthen or shorten the adjustment rod? Any sugestions would be appreciated.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Could be the 4th gen pedals; they don't "stroke" the master cyl as far. Use 3rd gen pedals instead. It's not a matter of the length of the rod, it's the location of the stud on the pedal; it's closer to the pivot on the 4th gen than the 3rd.

Could also be this.

sullybear

Thanks for the response Sofakingdom. I did pull the trans back out and checked the throwout bearing attachment'. It was good. I like the thoughts on the pedals.. I initially had the early 82-83 mechanical pedals in the car minus the zbar etc.. I found a complete T5 set up, Bellhousing flywheel etc.. minus the pedals out of an 87 Fourmula. I originally bought Hawks pedals for what I thought was a 3rd Gen and a factory hydraulic set up. Unbeknownst to me they shipped me 4th gen pedals, which explains my difficulty installing them.. even managed to utilize the gas pedal...I mounted the factory master cylinder using the bracket on the pedals using the Stock hydraulic set up did not work... Hawks swapped it for the adjustable unit minus the difference and said it should work with the 4th Gen pedals..Which is where I am at...

Should I lower the pivot point on the pedal lever? Any thoughts on placement of the rod mounting point on the lever? Or should I just swap 3rd gen pedals back in. My only concern is that the clutch master cylinder is mounted where the 4th gen pedals provided an integral bracket, that I used as a template for mounting it. Thanks

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

The MC mounting is the same for both pedal generations.

The 3rd gen hydraulic pedals are different from the mech ones. Can't use the mech ones.

Best advice I can give you at this point is, put the right pedals in your car. Which would be, from a 3rd gen hyd. NOT mech.

I have a 83 L69 Z28. Put a hyd setup in it THE MINUTE I could get my hands on one... musta been around 86. Used of course 3rd gen pedal assy, BH, hydraulics. Worked GREAT until around 2004 or 5 when I put a T-56 in it, and discovered that the 3rd gen pedals stroked the 4th gen MC WAAAAAAYYYYYYY too far. So I have personal experience in these interchange matters. You have the same problem I had with the 4th gen transmission, except in reverse. (no, not the gear...)

sullybear

Great advice thanks 3rd gen pedals it will be.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

You can just drill a new hole in the pedal about 1" lower and use a bolt to fasten the clutch rod. That's how you fix a set of 4th gen pedals to work with a 3rd gen bellhousing and trans.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Third gen pedals are one way to gain stroke.

Or change the master cylinder for a bigger bore cylinder. Tick's design was copied for yours,
and the Tick has the option of going multiple different master cyl. bore sizes, that is a valid way of adding stroke. You may have 3/4", or 13/16", and 7/8" is def. available.

sullybear

Great advice from all...I ordered a set of 3rd gen pedals, but I thing I will try relocating the rod as described first to be sure I am on the right track be fore swapping them. Thanks again. Hope to be chirping 2-3 shifts before long!

sullybear

86TA you out there? I had some time this evening and drilled a hole about an inch lower on my 4th Gen pedal lever and bolted the clutch master cylinder rod to the lever in the new hole. First I shortened the rod as short as it will go and bolted it on. From the get go the pedal is too hard to push. Would shortening the rod work,( it is the Hawks adjustable unit). With the rod as short as it could be it lined up at the top of the pedal travel.

Aviator857

The further down the pedal leaver you go the harder it will be to press it due to the mechanical advantage change. You want the rod as long as required so that at the bottom of the stroke you have fully disengaged the clutch, but so long as the pedal is too high when the pedal is at the top. The distance from the pivot point changes the over all stroke (think a stroker crank) small changes have a large effect.

I'm trying to get the 4th gen pedal and the 4th gen T56 right right now. In my case I'm thinking I want to modify the mounting bracket so the pivot point is closer to the firewall which will raise the pedal some but give me a longer stroke without changing the mechanical advantage that occurs when you move the attach point.

In your case I would find some junk yard pedals and cut your loses on the the 4th gen pedals...

sullybear

Aviator857

100 % true...Since my last post '''I obtained and installed a used set of 3rd gen pedals and now everything works well. I am sorting out some other steering and engine oil leak issues then its off to paint. I have those 4th gen pedals if you need them. I was thinking of eventually doing a LS/T56 swap...but I think that will have to be another car another time,

Aviator857

Glad to hear it, My LS1/t56 swap was more of an adventure as I went from auto to manual... but I bought an entire 2000 firebird that had a non-rebuild-able title so I have all the parts... just dreading taking the pedals out again to make the adjustments. I only have a bout an inch at the bottom of the clutch pedal stroke where the transmission is disengaged I feel like it should be more... I don't re call how much it had when everything was still in the donor car but I think it was more.

The LS swap is very doable but alot more work than you realize... its not for the faint of heart.