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In this middle of installing my engine/transmission combo and I'm at the part where I bolt in and shim the converter to the flexplate, I have 2 of the 3 bolts in with 2 washers for shims but the problem I have is the third converter tab is in further than the others with very little gap for me to even get 1 washer shim in let alone 2. These pictures show what I mean, the converter is pushed out to the flexplate here, one pic has 2 washers with enough room to get a 1/8 bit into but not a 3/16, the last remaining converter tab is already tight to the flexplate, I can't see it being a bent flexplate or damaged converter because it's all brand new, please help the engine and transmission are dangling in the air out on the shop crane I'm hoping to lower it in today.
Also the bolt in the lower pic wouldn't fit though the hole in the flex like the other 2 did it's like the hole is slightly too small for the bolt. gap when pushed out to flexplate because the tab in the other picture is tight to flexplate. no gap at all when pushed out to flexplate when other 2 tabs have gap.
Hook up the starter and let it spin it while you watch it, if you can do that quickly.
Yea this is my rudimentary way of checking runout, don't laugh too hard, as you can see in the pics I did have a dial gauge on the edge of the flex plate but it's hard to get any accurate reading at all where the starter ring was welded to the plate is all bubblegummed in spots. As you can see I managed to get a full 1/4 inch deflection between the 2 pictures, I didn't check to see if this was the max runout or not I just took a measurement spun the crank a bit and checked again and got this result. Not sure what the max spec is though. I did have the flex off and placed it flat on the concreate floor and it does have some wobble when pressing down with my hand in some spots.
That's why I suggested spinning it with the starter (without the converter bolted up) and watch how much it wobbles. Getting anything resembling a meaningful "measurement" is not a trivial undertaking.
That said, there's a reason it's known as a "flex plate" in the first place...
That's why I suggested spinning it with the starter (without the converter bolted up) and watch how much it wobbles. Getting anything resembling a meaningful "measurement" is not a trivial undertaking.
That said, there's a reason it's known as a "flex plate" in the first place...
Flex plate flexes yes but something else I'm thinking about that tells me this is too much is the starter gear for example is supposed to engage the ring gear (from what I've read) no more than 2/3 and no less than 1/2, so if I have this deflection then at some point the starter wont engage enough and in another spot it will engage too much.
Of course, when you bolt it up to your converter, it'll straighten out, or at least, mostly; but you don't want to put too much stress on anything in the process. Best to know what you're working with up front.
Of course, when you bolt it up to your converter, it'll straighten out, or at least, mostly; but you don't want to put too much stress on anything in the process. Best to know what you're working with up front.
Yea I'll see if I can take the plate somewhere Friday and see if I can have it formerly checked to see if it's warped, see someone more knowledgeable than I am at least. These plates do appear to be very easy to bend or warp if you were to bump them the wrong way during shipping for example. Also where the block sat in the wooden crate was very close to the plate so perhaps it got a bump when it was lowered in, or perhaps when I plucked it out of the crate haha.
Edit, I'll throw in a pic of the whole project, I can't wait to get it running and finally be able to back it out under it's own steam and wash it, 10 solid years of dirt buildup, and this is after all the loose dirt blew off after it took a 40 km ride on the back of a flatbed out over the highway. (had to have someone else remove 2 drivers side broken transmission mount to frame bolts. He had to cut out the frame rail and weld a new piece in)
Last edited by MystikalDawn; May 16, 2023 at 08:42 PM.
Yeah those things can be a witch with a capital B... sometimes it's easier to hole-saw in from above, abolish the cage nut, weld in some REAL hardware, and use plastic pop-in plugs to cover the holes (which is under the front seat anyway).
Unless I am looking at this photo incorrectly. In the "second" photo, the ring gear is making contact with the mounting tab on the torque converter. This is not supposed to happen, and will not work. The mounting tab must contact the flex plate with no interference from the ring gear. With a new flex plate, if the clearance between mounting tabs and flex plate changes. Then most likely the flex plate is bent or made incorrectly. If using a used flex plate. Make sure the contact area at the mounting holes is flat, with no high spots (protruding metal).
Unless I am looking at this photo incorrectly. In the "second" photo, the ring gear is making contact with the mounting tab on the torque converter. This is not supposed to happen, and will not work. The mounting tab must contact the flex plate with no interference from the ring gear. With a new flex plate, if the clearance between mounting tabs and flex plate changes. Then most likely the flex plate is bent or made incorrectly. If using a used flex plate. Make sure the contact area at the mounting holes is flat, with no high spots (protruding metal).
Brand new flex plate, but Your right the converter tabs do contact the ring gear, I have a 153 tooth flex plate, is it possible this converter is only meant for a 168 tooth plate? If so this is extremely frustrating, it's an FTI converter ESR3082 ordered from Summit and nothing that I could see said it would or wouldn't work with specific flex plates, only thing I knew to look for was the bolt hole diameter (7/16) and matching bolt pattern.
Since you're using the inner bolt hole, you can put a shim washer in there if you have enough clearance for the converter in the pump, and stand it off enough to miss the ring gear. That's possibly a recoverable situation.
Of greater importance though, is that if the flex plate is bent, then when you bolt it up to a nice flat converter, it will be in a tweeek all the time; and will tend to want to break out the center from flexing constantly, as well as stressing the pump bushing. Furthermore, the converter isn't supposed to be pushed in all the way; there's supposed to be a gap between it the flex plate, such that its normal dwelling place is a shade off of bottoming in the pump (maybe .150" or so would be the target). But if the part of the converter that's bent, is bent towards the transmission, then it will be trying to push the converter in farther than the other 2, and since the converter can "float" and assume the "average" position of the 3, it'll tend to be in too far.
If you can't easily replace the flex plate, you can at least bolt it to the motor either backwards or correct, and pull on the part that's bent until it's straight. You can lay it on a level surface and use a torpedo level on the crank flange to figure out whether the area around 1 bolt hole is bent, or the larger area around 2 is the bent part; and bend it by hand until the crank flange and mounting pads are in parallel planes. Butt if you can return it, that'd be the safe thing to do.
Since you're using the inner bolt hole, you can put a shim washer in there if you have enough clearance for the converter in the pump, and stand it off enough to miss the ring gear. That's possibly a recoverable situation.
Of greater importance though, is that if the flex plate is bent, then when you bolt it up to a nice flat converter, it will be in a tweeek all the time; and will tend to want to break out the center from flexing constantly, as well as stressing the pump bushing. Furthermore, the converter isn't supposed to be pushed in all the way; there's supposed to be a gap between it the flex plate, such that its normal dwelling place is a shade off of bottoming in the pump (maybe .150" or so would be the target). But if the part of the converter that's bent, is bent towards the transmission, then it will be trying to push the converter in farther than the other 2, and since the converter can "float" and assume the "average" position of the 3, it'll tend to be in too far.
If you can't easily replace the flex plate, you can at least bolt it to the motor either backwards or correct, and pull on the part that's bent until it's straight. You can lay it on a level surface and use a torpedo level on the crank flange to figure out whether the area around 1 bolt hole is bent, or the larger area around 2 is the bent part; and bend it by hand until the crank flange and mounting pads are in parallel planes. Butt if you can return it, that'd be the safe thing to do.
Yea the flat washers that I need will keep the converter tabs away from the ring gear, and I already have a new flex plate ordered through my local GM dealer (320 CAD talk about criminal prices for a shitty piece of stamped steel), was supposed to be here yesterday but didn't get a chance to drop out and pick it up so hopefully Monday. I also hope when I go out to get the new flex plate they will warranty the "warped old new one" that came with the engine and has never been used. I would yank and push on it to try and straighten it out but I'm nervous and just don't want this thing to grenade at 6000 RPM and come up through the bellhousing, the tunnel and into my legs lol.
