i have this so called "viper t56" cant figure out the vss. last thing i need donethe vss for the 93-97 viper didn't work too big, t56 vss for 93-02 camaro didn't work small in the front but the rings don't make it through.i have the casting numbers on the side 1386 065 902. no sticker. no tag, this came out of the trans originally. see picture 1this ig "bullet" came out of the vss hole, had the same reverse light sensor as a camaro and has the same neutral safety switch location, never messed with it though, as i dont need it. i read about retro fit t56s on https://www.skulte.com/T56.html maybe i should pick up a 700r4 vssmaybe i just need help identifying it?? any help or input would be super appreciated

 

As you were told the last time you asked about this and posted those same unhelpful pics, that cable-drive "bullet" won't work for you in any manner way shape form or fashion. 99.99999% odds it wasn't working before, as anything to do with a speedo. It's NOT FOR a T-56, not of any kind AFAIK. Looks to me like somebody saw a hole in the side of the transmission that they needed to plug, rummaged around in their junk pile until they found some random piece that was about the right size, and just spoooged it all up real good and jammed it in there to keep the fluid from coming out. Forget about it; lose it; give it away to somebody with a T-5 or Turbo 350 that can use it; throw it in the trash; SOMETHING. Quit posting up pics of it in any case, it is USELESS. It's not for that transmission, won't fit, won't work, is useless to you, is unrelated to anything that WILL work for you, doesn't contain any a clue as to what you need. It uses a gear, which is offset from the transmission mainshaft, by about an inch and a half, straight downward from the center of the shaft, which would put it very near the bottom of the casting. Since you have a Firebird from 85 or later it wouldn't work in ANY transmission and function with your stock speedo regardless. Make it go away and don't show those pics of it anymore.

A 700 VSS won't work either. Those are quite large, like near twice as large as that T-5 bullet, and require a hole offset from the mainshaft center as well, since they all use gears. A later 4L60E one might work butt without seeing the hole it has to fit into, no way to even guess about that.

The type of VSS you need uses no gear, just plugs straight into the side of the extension housing, and points straight at the mainshaft. The GM T-56 VSS has a reluctor wheel with 17 teeth if memory serves. Nobody out here has A CLUE what reluctor is in that thing you have since you haven't shown us.

Other possibility is, as you were told last time, is to contact Jags That Run or try to get hold of the member Alloy on here and see if either of them is still doing the conversion mod to the extension housing that then allows a T-5 speedo setup to be used. It involves machining down the side of the ext hsg, filling the hole that it now has for a VSS, using epoxy (I suppose you maybe could weld more aluminum on there instead) to build up some area below the existing hole that now is not fully there, and cutting in a new hole in a completely different place, to accommodate the gear type of setup.

Coming on here and beating us all over the head about "Viper T-56" and whatever other PO drivel you heard won't help. Showing us the same worthless pics of that PO's alternate-ethnic-engineering HACK JOB won't help: it is GARBAGE. Doesn't matter what jerry-rig the PO glued into it to keep the fluid in; the thing he happened to use to plug the hole, although it has a very remote indirect connection to what you need, is USELESS to you in every way. Except if you do the conversion described above, in which case you'll need to come up with a T-5 VSS and the right gears to match your rear end gears, if you don't already have that, which we don't know, since you haven't told us what you're converting FROM; or, do the conversion, and then use that to install an aftermarket cable-drive speedo. AFAIK nobody ever made a conversion to use a 700 VSS and probably CAN'T, since those are MUCH larger and there's no material there in all the places there needs to be, to be able to install a sufficiently large hole for whichever one of the 2 of those your rear gears would require you to use. We out here have not the vaguest dimmest foggiest remotest hint of a whiff of a glimpse of a clue what transmission you ACTUALLY have or what VSS might fit it. Seems like the PO's blabbermouth on the matter isn't of much use either. Posting a good clear pic of the place that the VSS goes, and maybe measurements of the hole diameter and the distance from the exterior surface to the reluctor wheel, however, MIGHT help, instead of those useless ebay pics or whatever they are, that we can't even see the hole at all, let alone tell how big it is or where it is or anything else about it. One thing I CAN tell you though, is that the bell housing on it in those photos, isn't a Chevy V8 one, therefore it won't bolt up to any Chevy V8 motor, and unless you've got that matter under control somehow, that thing isn't ready to put into your car yet. Looks kinda like it uses a throwout bearing with an integral slave cyl, which isn't a stock GM setup in any case although it might be able to be adapted. It also looks like the clutch gear (shaft that sticks out the front) is about 6" too long, meaning you'll need to change that out somehow too. You've got LOTS of compatibility issues to overcome besides just the VSS if that's still what the transmission looks like.

 

its a bell housing off a t5 and its in the car and working fine, thats why im worried about the vss to pass inspection. its a 86 with a Eletric speedometer. the post was more directed towards figuring out how to decode the trans or if there's slight differences between models due to not having the tag to figure out what car it really came out of or what it is. its in the car so its hard to take good pictures. i emailed alloy and never got a response off his website. would taking the tailshaft off and counting teeth on the reluctor wheel give me options of vss to use? if i take a measurement of this hole would it help? can i just change out the tailshaft? i never saw dimensions on the vss when i was buying them. im a 19yr/o w a project car thats trying to learn. thats why im asking questions

 

Well, we can't "decode the trans" because ... you haven't posted any codes. So, there is that. Butt that's probably not the best way to go about it in any case since you'd need some kind of reference to what the "codes" mean, which ... who knows. I have no clue where to find that sort of thing for T-56s myself. I'm not really a "codes" person for ANYTHING anyway, partly for that reason, and partly because when people change PARTS, they rarely change "codes", meaning, with used / modified parts, there's NO TELLING whether whatever the "codes" might tell, still applies. Too risky to buy parts and be sure they'll be right. IMO "codes" just aren't the best way to get anything done most of the time, although maybe that would be better than the nothing we have to work with now.

Yes there could easily be differences in models. OTOH with as little as we know for certain about what you have, we can't comment on what "models" might be involved.

OK fine. We don't care. The job doesn't care. Do you want to get the job done, or not? Yes: you'll find a way to do what it takes. If you're not willing to do what it takes, then I guess it doesn't really matter to you, and you don't really want to get it done after all. Simple as that. You're young: best to learn this lesson early in life. Put "hard" out of your vocabulary, and move on from complaining, toward success and accomplishment.

If Alloy didn't e-mail you back, then it's a fair bet he's not doing conversions anymore. Probably terminates the option of doing it that way. Which is probably OK anyway since that's probably not the best option for what you need, regardless; you'd still have to come up with the VSS and gears for a T-5, if you don't already have those (you still haven't told us). His deal was much more suited to cars w cable-drive speedo rather than electric like your car, anyway. I still think that jmd's suggestion of a pulse converter box, applied to whatever reluctor happens to be in it, is the best way to go. You could count the teeth, or just hook it up and see what it reads, and play with it until it's as close as you can get it, once you get a VSS by whatever means that will plug into it.

Maybe. I can't tell you what size you need or what sizes the available ones are, and I'm not willing to go out and take mine apart so I can measure it; but maybe somebody else has one they can measure, or SOMETHING. AT LEAST you'll have some INFORMATION; some idea what you're looking for, and you can do stuff like go to the parts store and ask for every T-56 VSS they have in stock and measure them all and see if any will fit. One thing is for sure though: "PO said it's out of a Viper" is pretty much an INFORMATION VACUUM, especially since you've already found that you can't buy parts for one and they fit. Makes me sorta think the whole "Viper" bit is just some kinda typical seller's mouth diarrhea. Nobody can help you based on that. I'd be inclined to think though, that if it's already in the car and the mount lines up and the drive shaft plugs in and the torque arm bolts up (Vipers don't have that at all AFAIK) and the shifter fits through the console and all such as that, that it isn't "Viper" to begin with. I don't know that, butt it seems like it would be WWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY too much of a coincidence if all that stuff was the same between "Viper" and our cars. I'm skeptical that ANYTHING you were told is the actual truth.

Maybe. Might not have to change out the shaft, only the extension housing which is just a casting, butt that remains to be seen. I have no clue though, whether "PO said it's out of a Viper" will guarantee ANYTHING about whatever you have. It's not impossible that an extension housing for some year of F-body will just bolt right up to whatever transmission it really is, and then you could use the VSS for that. I don't know that for sure one way or the other. If you can't find a VSS to fit the one you have then maybe that could be a possible next step though. The F-body (Camaro/Firebird) transmission mount is not in the same location as the T-5 and 700 though, so there would be other changes that would have to be made, involving the crossmember, trans mount, torque arm, etc. Again, not knowing what you have and not ever even really having seen it, or seen what it looks like in the car and how it fits, it's impossible to guess stuff like that from out here.

Bottom line is, you gotta give us more info, before there's any hope of getting any further help. We're even more in the dark than you are since we know so little about what you've got. At least you've seen it, which is more than anybody out here can say.

Might want to look up every single individual year of Camaro/Firebird T-56 VSSs (93 - 2002) and see if there are any different ones listed. There's a good chance that 93-97 (LT1) is one thing and 98-2002 (LS1) is something else, or some such. It might turn out to be that simple. Who knows. It'd be great if it was.

 

gonna go to the part store today and see all the t56 related vss's they have with measurements. that was a great idea, if that doesnt work out i think im just gonna go for the extension housing swap. ill upload some pictures anyways figured it wont hurt ill be under it later. thank you

 

Soooo...my understanding is that the T56 from the factory never came with a cable driven speedo which might be part of the piece you're holding which is a mystery . There is an aftermarket T56 offering that come with the provision for a drive and driven gear to spin a speedometer cable. Then there's some talented machinist that can machine your tailhousing and insert an epoxied sleeve that will accept the bullet and driven gear. This would be clearly obvious but you didn't take any good quality pictures of that part so you understand the frustration when someone is giving you a severe keyboard tongue lashing.

All the other T56s afaik come with a reluctor/tone wheel and VSS. You did mention that you might have a Viper T56 which could be identified by the larger 30 splined yoke with all the other GM offerings should be 27 splines. Keep in mind that the Viper reluctor/tone wheel has 10 teeth (can't remember), 1 year '93 LT1 has unobtanium 11 teeth and purdy much all others (GM) had the 17 tooth reluctor which you might be able to view it from the hole in the side of the tailhousing where you pulled that bullet out.



https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...eedometer.html

 

It seems that since the t56 vss sending unit is just sending x pulses per mile and you have a speedo the needs to receive y pulses per mile. you need a converter that converts x to y and some wire. I believe multiple companies make converter boxes. Dakota digital makes one I think. If you cannot find something I'd reach out to tick performance. They do a lot with these transmissions and likely can help. I bet if you can't figure the proper vss sensor they can.

 

It seems that since the t56 vss sending unit is just sending x pulses per mile and you have a speedo the needs to receive y pulses per mile. you need a converter that converts x to y and some wire. I believe multiple companies make converter boxes. Dakota digital makes one I think. If you cannot find something I'd reach out to tick performance. They do a lot with these transmissions and likely can help. I bet if you can't figure the proper vss sensor they can.

 

The 1st pic that Stew posted is a stock T-56. You can see the reluctor wheel down in the hole. In that particular one, looks like somebody was messing with it and left out the rear snap ring that holds it in place, and the pic shows how it's not behind the hole anymore, so the VSS can't "hear" it go by.

The 2nd pic is an aftermarket one. Has the extra casting feature for a "bullet" setup. You don't have that so it's worthless except as an example of where a "bullet" would need to go.

The 3rd pic is the Jags That Run conversion. They made a little metal sleeve with a "flag", that then bolted to the side of the casting. A hole had to be drilled, and the casting had to be machined off, both on the outside where the "flag" bolted down, and on the inside, where the gear went. Then the whole deal got epoxied ion so it wouldn't leeeeek. When they were supplying that you'd have to send them your extension housing, which they would then modify, and then you'd put your stock T-5 "bullet" in there. The reason that they made this available was that certain Jaguars back then had T-5 and cable-drive speedo, and people that tried to race them got tired of tearing up T-5s, so they had this little deal as part of a whole retrofit setup they sold to put a 93-97 F-body T-56 in its place. They had some other beef-up pieces for T-5 as well; I think I actually have one somewhere, which was a rear countergear bearing retainer for the 2nd design T-5. I would have got that back in the early 90s sometime, back when I was still messing with T-5s in my (cable drive) 83, and T-56s were EXPENSIVE and HARD to get, being brand new. I did away with my T-5 in favor of a T-56 in maybe 2003 or 04; if memory serves, I ended up with one of Alloy's conversions, which although completely effective is not as "polished" as the JTR thing, that I traded for my stock 96ish extension housing that I had got in maybe 98 or 99, because the guy that had Alloy's piece wanted to put his T-56 in a 4th gen instead and so no longer needed the conversion.

Butt since your car has an electric speedo to begin with, the whole "bullet" deal is really NOT the best way to go about this. So don't worry about Alloy or JTR, or therefore anything in those pics except for the one showing the reluctor that's out of place, they don't really fit your situation. At this point you just need to lay off of "hard" and devote your mental effort to finding a VSS that will fit whatever transmission you have (which I am about 99.99999999999% certain is not "Viper' in any manner way shape form or fashion) although it's not entirely clear what it REALLY is. THAT'S what you need to focus on, is CLEARLY identifying what you REALLY have, which as said is almost certainly NOT "Viper" anything. Then, buy the pulse converter box sort of thing, and you'll be defecating in tall cotton.

 

only identify factor on the trans is stamping on the side 1386 065 902 which to my knowledgedoesn't identify s***. no sticker on top, no tag on passanger side. gonna try measuring the hole and try to see what autozone has, if not im just gonna pull the extension housing and send it out if i can find anyone or buy a new extension housing, heres a few more pics i took if anyone wanted to drop their
thabk you everyone i really do appreciate it

 

I would measure the inside diameter of that hole and contact tick performance. They are pretty good w these trans. I bet they have the info you're looking for.

 

Considering the location of the hole, I'd venture to say that it's setup for the plastic drive/driven gear speedo. It also seems to me that in the hole, I can catch a glimpse of something blue in there. It seems odd there's no remnants of the magnetic pickup style VSS unless you have the aftermarket iteration of the t56 which from your other pics at the start of this thread tells me otherwise. I'm sure someone that wants a cable driven speedo would be more than willing to trade. I might be that person but I don't feel like shipping stuff across the pond.

Edit:in post #3 you mentioned T5 bell housing which the only person I know that uses the aftermarket t56 is a guy at montecarloss.com. I believe he does mention a 1/2" adapter plate that allows him to bolt up the t56 to your traditional GM Muncie/BW bh pattern which is what believe to see in pic one of the last pics you posted.

 

definitely mechanical, guess im gonna get a new tail housing and reluctor wheel. thanks stew wouldve never seen that

 

Nice catch, Stew!

It is very likely from appearance, you have a 7t GM drive gear on a GM 27 spline mainshaft and can use T5 parts since your tailhousing is modded to use them.

OP, you have a speedo gear setup. I didn't read all your posts but if you have a stock ECM 86 Firebird, find a stock 86 T5 VSS and calibrate with speedo gears.

If that fails / can't be found, get the aftermarket VSS jagsthatrun offers (triple check 4-pulse; I am pretty sure that's what Firebirds need to feed their DRAC box), and calibrate with T5 speedo gears.

Or, do the 2nd option above and get a simple single signal signal reducer / increaser. You don't need the multi-inlet / multi- outlet Dakota box because your stock DRAC already does all that. You just need the signal to be fine tuned up or down.

Since you're smogging, I would focus on the easy to access parts. Converting back to reluctor and 93-02 F / GTO extension housing is a bit more work since you're also signal-calibrating 17t / rotation (a much bigger number than 4004 pulse per mile.

 

update, after jmd replied , got me thinking and i found it this is the mystery part https://www.hawksmotorsports.com/83-...g-driven-gear/
we're getting somewhere, now alloy replied to me we talked a little and he mentioned they make vss sensors that screw on to cable driven one WHICH IS PERFECT BUT i cant find one anywhere for a t5
if that goes no where im gonna swap back to a fbody reluctor ring, and on that note. is it hard? can i just jump in there and figure it out? cant seem to find any videos on the topic

 

Yup, looks to me like you have some one of the aftermarket T-56 versions, NOT "Viper" (except to the extent that those had a T-56 too) or any of the stock F body ones such as for LT1 or LS1 cars.

Looks also like there's a plastic (blue) speedo gear on the mainshaft now.

This explains to some extent why you got a speedo "bullet" with the transmission; that would have fit properly into the lower hole there, offset from the mainshaft as I described repeatedly, for any of the T-5 style gear-drive cable or VSS setups. Now all you need, IFF you want to use that style VSS, is as jmd just said, a digital pulse divider box, a T-5 VSS, and the RIGHT SPEEDO GEARS for your rear gears (or something that's lucky enough to be close enough for the divider box to produce decent output from).

HOWEVER: That's WWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYY too much fooling around. You almost certainly ALREADY HAVE a T-56 style VSS sitting right in front of you in your pics. In your 2nd pic, the thing with the 2-pin connector that currently points upward. Look up for example https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...L0EkOIgw%3D%3D If either of those what it looks like they might be, then for it to work, all you need is a T-56 reluctor, and the divider box. The reluctor is gonna be MUCH easier to source; you can probably grab one of those at yer local stealership; or maybe, https://www.ebay.com/itm/26312747506...Bk9SR-jrir79ZQ. Get that, then all you have to do is, pop the ext hsg off, pop the speedo gear off, slide the reluctor on in its place, plug the cable-drive "bullet" hole with some kinda freeze plug type thing, and hook up & program the divider box using the T-56 VSS. MMMMMMMUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCHHHHHHHHHH eeeeeeeeezzzzzzyer to do and get all the parts and not worry about trying to find the right T-5 VSS (which are all butt vanished from the face of the Earth) and all that.

 

# 4PAC on jagsthstrun threads to mech. speedo gear drive. Email them to confirm that fits your app.

 

A reluctor is cheeeeeeper ($20 something vs ???), FAR eeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzyer to get, requires no "can't find anywhere", and has a longer future.

 

Oh, there's a reluctor wheel-compatible VSS that can be installed in that trans. with that offset from the mainshaft and work? I must have missed that.

 

It's already there.



All he has to do is replace the gear with a reluctor and hook it up. Maybe turn it to point down or rearwards so its connector has some place to live. For that matter, it's not impossible that there's already a reluctor in there, if that's not directly above the hole where the gear is. I don't know exactly how that version of T-56 is built that way.