I wanted to make it publicly known the experience I have had w/Pro Built. It was a very nice thing that they have done. I was concerned about transmission breakage (my 700R4 went out and is now under warranty from a local shop here) and I wanted to make sure these guys would do it correctly. To get a second opinion, I called up Dana at Pro Built and he went through ALL aspects that my transmission should have. Thanks!

Now, let me state my questions/problems/etc.

With the Pro Built list in hand, I approached the transmission shop that warrantied my transmission and asked for a few minutes to run over with me what all is going in my transmission and let them know I spoke with someone and had a list of reccommendations. To my surprise, many of the items Dana told me were already put in. The further I got down the list (I was up front with him in telling him I have no problem paying a little more for these items) the more he started getting hostile! While I was asking questions, he started saying "I'm trying to do you a favor in warrantying a transmission that is so badly messed up that no other shop would warranty it and you are trying my patience". I don't know if he has a case or not. Here is what he said went bad...

rear planetary
rear ring gear
sun shell
input drum

Are these things unusual to go out? Does it take excessive force to kill these things? The previous tranny was supposed to be good to hold up to my zz4/tpi and the next one is supposed to hold up to my zz4/procharged/SuperRammed vehicle.

He said if anyone were to take a look at how badly these items were damaged that no one would think twice at not warrantying these items. Of course, he let me know how much of an inconvenience I was being and that "only I know how badly I beat up the transmission" - which I didn't! I was only trying to make sure that it would hold up this time! Here are the items that he added in:

heavier input clutch drum
kevlar band
corvette accumulator

What is all of your input? Should this thing hold up to 500 hp?

He also said he would only warranty a transmission w/ TCI/Dayco converter.

I would like to sign off with two final things:

1. Thank you again, Pro Built for your willingness to help out even though you didn't get a cent! I will direct ANYONE who needs a transmission to you

2. Screw you, local transmission shop. Not only for your work, but for your inability to properly treat your customers. No matter how good my transmission comes out you still get an "F" in my book. If this transmission goes bad and you fail to respond correctly with another rebuild, you will be hearing from my attorney.

 

500 HP is pushing it, still no reason for bad customer service though.
I hear many shops won't build high performance 700's for this reason (problems). You might get better results with a 9.5 converter also (easier on trans).
I'm sure more will be added to this thread.

Keep in mind also that the builder only assembles the parts, they don't make them.

 

the tranny builder is very sure that it will hold and that I need to "trust" him. I would agree with the torque converter aspect - I want one anyway! He just says plain an simple he will not warranty the tranny then ... I told him it's more efficient, yadda yadda yadda and he said he would talk to the owner about it.

 

It's hard to believe he would have the nerve to give you an attitude after telling you that you need to trust him and he's so sure it'll hold up.
On the other hand, I hate to see my work fail also, maybe he's just upset about that and not at you, I get that way sometimes. Thats good if thats the case because he may see it as a challenge to build it to hold up.
Good luck.

 

Jay, you said one thing right the 9.5" lockup torque converter will not hurt the transmission (only help), the rest is just a story to get out of a warranty!

 

I think that if you want or expect the peace of mind of an all inclusive, unlimited waranty on a transmission that is to be used
behind a motor with a lot more power than stock, you should expect to pay a premium price. Like 2 or 3 times the real cost
of the build. Even including the needed hi-performance parts There are trans companies that have $3500/4000
transmissions that have warranties to match.
On the average $1100/ 1500 rebuild the profit margin isn't that big. If you paid less, you should expect less. I think you should cut this guy some slack here.
If you are looking for a bulletproof transmission that will not fail behind a blown motor (500hp plus), and are going to blame everyone else if your Th700 fails, u can expect your trans guy to get pissy with you. I've seen 325hp smallblocks destroy a th400
with ease. **** happens. There is an old saying "If you race it, you'll eventually break it". You'd probabilly be better off with a
built Th400 in the long run. They are cheaper to build and
can take the power you want to put through it.
Just my .02 cents... Good Luck

 

If a transmission specialist tells you that if you pay them to build a transmission it will hold up to all the power you have, but it breaks under non abusive conditions within 5 months, how would you respond?

 

If you can afford attorney's and 500hp blown motors,
You should be able to afford a real RACING TRANSMISSION
and pay the price of a REAL RACING TRANSMISSION PRICE.
If you deside on building anything less, you should expect a lot less. If you walked into my shop with a list of parts saying this guy
says you need this and that guy says you should have that ,I'd get pissy too. It's not like ya had a pump failure and glazed a few clutches. Ya got Hard parts failing, Hello! . That usually means you are trying to put too much power thru it for the design. First thing I'd do is have a look at your rear wheel wells for rubber build up. If you want a "ProBuilt" trans , get on the phone and order one.
Somebody is trying to kid someone or themselves here.
Good Luck on your trip on the learning curve of life my friend.

 

learning curve of life...hmmm....

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm sure you will, but isn't the racing transmission from ProBuilt about $1400? I must have hit a nervous chord with you, and I apologize if I did so, but please don't take any personal offense to it unless you have done the same to someone. Here is the question I asked that was left unanswered:

Question: If a transmission specialist tells you that if you pay them to build a transmission it will hold up to all the power you have, but it breaks under non abusive conditions within 5 months, how would you respond?

Answer: I think it is a no-brainer that you would persue this matter if what was promised was not what you got for your money.

Again, maybe I'm missing something, but it seems as though you have missed something in the equation here.

 

Normally I wouldn't comment on this...
F Bird88, you are way off base here. But in this case, I don't like hearing your class warfare economics routine...Are you a bit jealous or something? What exactly is your problem with the world on this topic? And please, give something with a bit more substance than the old and tired "Ya gotta pay to play" line. Did it ever occur to you that this guy is simply trying to get customer service delivered, apparently as promised, from the seller of the product here?

If you have (or had) a shop and adopted this attitude, I would feel sorry for your customers having to deal with your BS customer service attitude. Spending $1000 or more on a transmission should entitle the purchaser to get a good product and to get exactly what they pay for. If this trans guy promised the world, and then gets upset when HE can't deliver on it, too bad. Keep in mind that a simple business transaction (one party buying and one party selling) doesn't need to involve a massive ego issue if the seller fails to keep their end. After all, the trans guy had no moral/ethical conflicts when he cashed the check for the work initially.

And, for the record, one doesn't have to pay $4000 for a "race" transmission. I thought a "race" transmission was a built Glide with a 6,000 stall? Even a built 4L80E setup will run about $3000, but Pro-built seems like a much better option.

Lastly, the "Learning curve of life" you mention doesn't have to be a major PITA for everyone out there...I am sorry it seems to have been so for you and hopefully you will learn that not everyone need get screwed by someone to understand reality. I have two words for you, "Get Therapy".

This post isn't meant merely as a flame against F-Bird, however I wish to strongly point out that I firmly agree with 89IROCZZ4 on his right as a consumer to NOT get screwed by the shop owner. After all, proper legal representation (an attorney) isn't something only "the rich" should ever be able or willing to utilize as a last resort.

Good luck on getting this resolved PROPERLY.

 

Sorry guy if you don't like my opinon but you did ask for it.
But I think I I have a few valid points. I didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday and have been on both side of the "customer service counter". It seems the guy at the shop really had no problems fixing your transmission but has every right to put limitations on a future warranty, especially when you consider
the present and intended use. But if you cope and attitude like the one you have or are developing with him instead of working with him on it., you're bound to get nowhere and will be surely disapointed.
There are real limitations on what a guy can do for ya for X amount of dollars. If you don't know that, you will figure it out in time. I'm curious to find out how much you have into this transmission, but I'll bet it's a lot less than what Dana @
ProBuilt sells 'em for. There is a big difference between a mildly
hopped up rebuild and a fully prepared trans. Which is what you will need now and for your future plans. Anything less will leave you dissapointed. The stock th700r4 is only good for around 325/350ft/lbs input at best. Even then you can expect a certain number of failures. I can just picture you walking in to this
guy's shop with a holy'er than thow attitude and a piece of paper with a list of parts from the internet *** of transmissions.
(Sorry Dana@ Probuilt. Absolutely no flame intended guy). And telling him all about what a smuck he is, 'cause his transmission
failed, and he won't unquestionably kiss you butt and fix it for free, forever reguardless of who,what,why it failed. And how your going to sue his *** off if it isn't just perfect. I am not in the transmission business, but I do got a problem with that.

 

Customer is always right. Thats how you run a successful business is treating your customers right, a business person should never get into a heated argument and if a customer becomes hostile, have a prepared list of other companies that might be able to do the work.

A business can suffer a large loss of customers for just one person getting treated bad. Take for example a crappy exhaust job done for a friend of mine. My buddies, My family will never get exhaust work done there now. Not to mention all the other people that have been told about there crappy work and customer service by my buddies friends family etc etc.

Any smart business person also knows that the customer is NOT always right, they(business person) just has to make them think they are right.

I personally printed the list of parts in a ProBuilt transmission and took it to the guy who builds my transmissions. He did not get an attitude with me because I was trying to inform myself and know what I wanted in my tranny. He said it helps when customers do research rather than Him asking if they want hardened shafts and they go "How much more is that?" rather than "Obviously you suggest it, so I probaly need them"

I certainly agree with the actions made by the original poster(forgot already, sorry)

 

Okay...

Now I can see why you may have thought that I was being a jerk on this. I think you have made a LOT of assumptions that are false, including the price I have paid for the transmission and my additude toward this guy. Lets start with price.

I paid anywhere between $1400 and $1600 for this transmission. I think that should be enough, don't you? The tranny guy and I sat down and talked in SPECIFICS about the power output of my motor. I told him I needed a transmission that could handle 400 hp / 400 ftlbs of torque with ease. He said NO PROBLEM! You will be able to get on it any day of the week w/out problems. So there you have it - concrete numbers and concrete promises that were broken. Do I have reason to be upset? Absolutely YES! And you would too.

Now, lets move on to my "additude" toward this guy. I was as nice as could be - I may sound a little less than nice right now, but I feel a bit frustrated. I told him in as nice of a matter as possible the following things: I didn't abuse the transmission - (should this transmission that was supposedly built for 400hp/400tq hold up to me flooring it a few times a week w/a 320hp motor I have now???) and since it broke under conditions other than abuse, I wanted to make sure that it was done right - again, I have every right in the world to do so, don't you agree? I think you would too, if you were afraid that they would to a sub par job once more and threaten not to warranty it even though it was their fault. I went to him asking what all was going in my transmission and matched it up with my parts list I received and said I was willing to pay more to make sure it was done right (read: I was willing to pay more than what I was supposed to) This is where he "copped and additude" with me. I never once was less than polite to him. Why? Because he was willing to fulfill his end of the bargain (this time at least) and I do NOT want to bring this to court. If need be, I will and with good reason. So you see, this has nothing to do with learning lifes lessons - it has to do with exercising common sense.

 

ZeroGauge, that is really what I was trying to do and how your tranny guy responded is what I expected for this guy to respond as well, or at least was hoping.

 

ZeroGauge, that is really what I was trying to do and how your tranny guy responded is what I expected for this guy to respond as well, or at least was hoping.

 

I had a problematic trans from a local builder. It broke several days after I got it back from the shop. I was sitting at a light and all of a sudden I see all my gages dance clockwise, and when the light turned green I couldn't move forward. The pump (stator ?) broke. Then a few weeks later I lost 3rd and 4th. A month later the trans broke the pump again on the freeway as I was just cruizing at 65. The pump broke again. Although the builder wasn't happy I kept coming back, he never gave me grief. I'm sure he lost a lot of money on my trans. But if he had replaced a few $20 parts he would have made money. He gambles on his builds being 'good enough' but on my car for some reason they weren't. I don't trust my trans at all and my warranty is over.

 

The way I read it they were going to honor the warranty, they were just unhappy about having to do so.

I cannot understand this, why would someone go to a local shop with a list from Probuilt to ask them to build a transmission as good as a Probuilt for the same money. Why not go with the real deal (a Probuilt trans) here? Thats just plain idiotic. What can you expect from that.

quote--1. Thank you again, Pro Built for your willingness to help out even though you didn't get a cent! I will direct ANYONE who needs a transmission to you.


Why didn't you direct yourself there in the first place?

 

the way i understand it is...he went to the local shop first and asked them to build a bulletproof tranny. they said no problem. transmission breaks. he then goes to probuilt and asks what parts should have been installed into the transmission to make it stronger. he now wishes he had went with probuilt.

 

Jay, to answer your question, I went to the local shop w/a part list from Pro Built because it was warranty work. In this case, again, it would be just plain idiotic to buy another tranny when this one is still under warranty.

To answer your second question, I didn't know much about Pro Built then. Any more questions?

 

I didn't know you never heard of Probuilt having over 500 posts here. I understand the warranty deal as well.
I've heard quite a few stories of 700 failure, it seems to be the input drum or sun shell.


Who makes a heavier duty input drum?
Is there a better rear ring gear than a factory piece?
Is he going to use a five pinion rear planetary?
I'd be interested in these parts if someone knows who has them.(if they're worth the trouble).

I have seen one 700 break the back of the case out due to too much horsepower, what can be done to prevent this?

No wonder so many people doubt the 700.

 

Ick...


"I didn't know you never heard of Probuilt having over 500 posts here. I understand the warranty deal as well. "


As much as I love sarcasm, I think I would like to let you know that my posts are mainly on the appearance and tpi boards. Does that make more sense to you as to why I hadn't heard of Pro Built before? If I had, it certainly wouldn't have made sense to me to order a transmission from Cali if the local builder said he could build one that would handle the power too.

Anyhow, I'm not looking for an argument - just looking to blow off some steam, and ask for some guidance, so if any was meant to help me out thanks!

As a side note, I had to take the car back again because it wasn't shifting again from the moment I got it off the lot. They took it back and fixed it, but it was acting weird still. When I would totally baby it from a stop, it wouldn't shift until 3000 rpm and if I put it in park, it would violently jump forward, as well as no real feel in acceleration mid range from half throttling. They had said the put an "SK Racing" shift kit in there and the transmission just had to be broken in. I hope they are right...

 

I'm not trying to be sarcastic.
I understand the deal with the warranty, just didn't at first.


I see a lot of people with less than 10 posts on this board asking for a transmission recommendation. Sometimes it's on their first post. Questions about failing rebuilds pop up all the time as well, I'm sort of disappointed to hear it all the time.


The other questions were for people who may know the answers, I know you don't want to hear this but what happens when a part breaks and the only replacement is a factory original piece? No heavy duty aftermarket parts available, like the case or rear ring gear. I'm wondering about that and if the aftermarket will ever make better parts.

But one things for sure, you're not alone on this, like I said before, I hear many people say they hate 700's after their experience with them. I personally think (from the information I've gathered) they don't hold up well with 440 plus horsepower and especially with larger converters. My 700 is slightly modified stock with raybestos clutches and no shift kit, no aftermarket parts, stock converter, in a 3000 pound truck and it holds up well with 360 hp. (for 5000 miles now anyway).

 

Thanks for your help, Jay.

After driving around in it a bit today, I have decided it will probably have to go back to the shop on monday. By the way, are SK Racing shift kits good or junk? From a stop, if I ease into it, it will take it up to 3-4000 rpm before shifting violently! It's very unpredictable. We'll see what happens!

 

Before you take it back I would try setting the tv cable if you havnt. It can cause the shifts to kind of act like that. If that is the problem you are having now, I wonder about the tranny shop if they cant set that. I am not saying that that is what it is, just something to check. I do not have a lot of experience with transmissions, so being totaly rebuilt I dont know what else could cause this problem unless they messed up something in the valve body.

Ben

 

I do understand where FBird 88 was coming from, although I think that the issue was simply that the trans guy was pissed that his "gamble" on parts didn't work for him this time.

I have heard also about the parts breakage on the 700R4 and I think that Dana will come through for me. After all, I spent time researching and throwing out $2000 (with ACT convertor) is a big deal to me. I think I will be spending money well....

 

I have a different answer for that question.

I went with a Probuilt tranny. Since I am about 2 hours away, I drove up to him and had a shop install it near Probuilt. For most people here, that is not an option. They have to have the tranny shipped, and I am sure it is not that cheap. The tranny was awesome and Dana's customer service was awesome.

But then the input sprag broke. Dana was quick to fix it for free, but who was going to take my tranny out of the car? I didnt have time to make ANOTHER 2 hour trip up there. And even if I did, it wasnt the shop's install fault that my sprag broke. So I ended up having to spend about $300 in labor by a local shop. With 60 hours/week at my job, I didnt have a choice.

Now look at the alternative. I talk to Probuilt and receice a list of parts that he puts into his builds. I go to a local, reputable tranny shop and show them the list. I talk to them about HP numbers. They agree on them, and on the list. All of a sudden, a local parts warranty appears, and a labor charge disappears for those "how in the hell did that break" scenario that popped up for me.

Probuilt is an EXCELLENT choice for transmissions. But if I could do it all over again, I would either get a list of parts, or the parts themselves from Probuilt, and have a local shop warranty the install. Most people dont have the time or money to be shipping transmissions back and forth thru freight.

 

Omar,

Under what conditions did the input sprag break? did you pony up the extra $$$ to have the input drum sleeved for your nitrous use? Just curious on this....

What are the rest of the specs on your engine?

Thanks....

 

the sun gears are really common problems even on compltely stock applications, sounds like normal failures that occur in all 700s oh by the way i think they suck, but if its built right it'll last a long time