I moved this from the body n frame section as it was growing quit stale there. Sometimes I think a v6'er cant get no respect anywhere but here.

Function vs. Style

Out of all the stock hatch wings which ones have real function and which ones are just for style.

Some have said the wrap around TA wing has more function than the typical wing like on the firebird; that would not really function until very high speeds.

What about someone with a notchback, what type of wing would work on it.

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I guess you could toss louvers in this topic. They look neat but have no real function. You want clean air getting to your wing; and the louvers would cause some awful turbulence.

 

I think they are all just for style bro , well on the f-bodys anyway . Someone correct me if Im wrong . I kinda like those louvers . I use to not .

 

You may be right. I started questioning its functionality; when I put on new exhaust tips. I did them right this time and got them flush and tight with the rear end. And now I can smell my hatch sucking fumes if I have the window down so far. That wing is trying to suck the hatch up; not push it down.

If anyone knows, what kind of angel should a wing have? I may just get creative n make a spacer or something to get that sucker tilted so it works.

I have done the hatch seal trick. I smeared oil all over the top part of the hatch. Then put about a inch thick bead of clear silicon on top of the rubber seal and shut it slow.

 

The wrap-around spoiler on TA's serve the most for function. Gale Banks selected this wing to use on his exterriorly stock quad-turbo super car.

...FYI...

 

I think the Wrap around TA spoiler actually begin down force at a respectable 55 MPH....

 

the camaro trunklid spoiler pops the air up creating a vacume below the spoiler, taillights, and below this captures exhaust gas in the lower pressure area.

i think they should make a 3 piece stock looking spoiler that is taller and more effectivly made...

in theory, if you take off the spoiler you would reduce drag, resulting in a minutly higher top speed

 

FYI the fasted land speed record was set in a 92 Firebird that had a 85-90 style T/A Wrap around spoiler. Just to give you some food for thought can you say 300+ in a thirdgen baby ????

If any spoiler/wing that was offered on a thirdgen, that would be the one that offers the most performance. It is also the best looking so there

Its heavy, which is a good thing, keeps the wheels planted to the ground at high speeds, it also creates downforce to also help with this.

I believe the 91-92 style T/A Wrap Around actually created uplift.

Check this out:
http://www.kugelkomponents.com/bonneville99.html

 

Anyone have a creative mind and want to make a wing mod. I’m thinking if the stock firebird wing is too low and angled wrong. That should be fixable. Anyone have any idea what is a good angle.

Should be easy, remove the wing and buy or make a set of spacer blocks to raise the wing up. Also angle cut the top on the give the wing more down force.

Now the only hard part, knowing how high and what angle to shoot for???

 

Yeah, you need two things for a spoiler to actually work:

1. High speed
2. The spoiler needs to be "behind" the rear bumper.

Ever see those fast-as-hell racetrack cars with the spoilers that hang way off the back of the car? That's a "real" spoiler. Ours are all just for looks. Fact, want proof of the aerodynamics of your car? Wash the car. Then, go for a ride or three. At some point before it rains, look at the top of the rear bumper. It'll be dusty. That's because of the aerodynamics; dumping the dust onto the bumper.

And Stuart, I still have that Hot Rod Mag where that story appeared; cool stuff! The newest Hot Rod has a 3rd gen Firebird on the front, too!

 

guess i am going to go buy a hot rod mag

 

so I guess then there is really no reason for a v6 to have a wing except for looks. It does make it look better but I gotta change something so I am not sucking exhaust fumes. it only does it with my window down a few inches but its not very healthy.

 

Actually, a V8 doesn't even need a spoiler. And these little hondas definately don't need the size of spoiler that THEY like to carry around. Some of those look heavier than the car! Maybe you just have an exhaust leak somewhere (at the manifolds, or at the catalytic convertor), or a weatherstripping that went bad and isn't sealing properly.

 

Yea, thee is a stock looking neon with a 4 foot high monster wing running around here.

But sound like what the stock wing needs is a 2ft + bilit spacer. give it hight and also back far enough to go past the bumper.

It would look truly funky.

I guess then in the same respect. A notch back is great alone, maybe even a tad more downforce from its large deck area. it would not need a wing/spoiler unless for style.

I have a hankering for a notchback.

 

Believe it or not our spoilers are definately functional. The reason is the way the f-bodies are designed they have barely any rear deck lid for down force . I am posting a couple illustrations to explain. Without the spoiler there wouldnt be any downforce on the rear of the car but there would be uplift on the rear because of the vacuum the car would create at the rear at high speeds.
The typical flat spoiler actually is raised up enough to catch the wind stream coming over the top of the car pushing the rear of the car down . this equalizes the pressure between the uplift and the down force making the car more stable at high speeds. If you notice the spoiler goes beyond the decklid.
The T/A wrap around spoiler is actually the best because really plants the rear of the car making it really stable especially while cornering. The only drawback is it creates more drag.

 

another

 

flat wing

 

Well then wouldnt the flat wing work much better with some proper angle. and what is proper angle? nascar rules??? road corse???

course they use a ta type wrap around or the 2nd gen caro bird wing.

guess a rice site might have more info on wing angle/pitch. Id spend a few bucks n have some billit spacers made. I would not raise it more then I had to. Just enough so it looked right.

 

It all depends on what kind of racing you plan on doing . The wrap around wing is good if you need alot of downforce in the rear because it also catches the air coming down the side of the car and directs it to the rear spoiler.
Now keep in mind that you have to keep the car balanced , so whatever you do on the back you have to do on the front also.
If you have the aero package on the car you are in pretty good shape. You have to keep the air from going under the car in the front and lifting the nose.
Too much downforce on the rear and not enough in th front will cause the car to push through the turns at high speeds.
Too much downforce in the front and not enough in the rear will make a car loose.

for Drag Racing the flat spoiler would work good.
For Road courses the wrap around would work good.

 

I like the illustrations, but I believe they're wrong for our f-bodies. They're good for showing how a spoiler would work. But, what exactly makes the air suddenly follow the hatchback window? Problem is, the airstream over the roof doesn't hug the car. Your line over the hatch should be extended backwards further. I think a more accurate picture would show the airflow "even" with the top of the bush on the SIDE of that house. (Not the bush in the front of the house.)

Youre also forgetting the high speeds you'd need to be travelling to feel the effect of any spoiler. We're better off adding a chin spoiler to the front of the car.

 

Here's an example of what I mean; the firebird is from our message board picture.

 

On the Trunk Lid of my camaro when it gets dirty it aways leaves the same pattern of dirt like it was swrlingng around if it ever gets dirty enouhg ill take a pic of it.

 

I've noticed a pattern when it snows; I don't clear off my back window. (5% tint means not really having a back window. I use my side mirrors to drive.) After I get to where I'm going, the snow is curved "equally" on the sides of my hatch window.

Oh, and hey, get this: The window against the spoiler is usually still caked with snow! Remind me next time it snows, I'll try to snap a pic of it. The dust on the rear bumper is supposed to be from the low pressure area underneath the car as opposed to the high pressure area above the car. Hot Rod ran an article on that a while ago...

And Icantdrive55, I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, I'm no expert on aerodynamics, I only repeat what I've read. I'm like a parrot sometimes. But I don't think the air comes right back down to the spoiler...

 

That was my point , the air doesnt hit the back glass ,it rides a couple of inches above it . But it does follow the form of the car. Thats why the spoiler is raised off the decklid ,to catch the air that will not hit the decklid.
I had to learn this stuff when I was NASCAR EXIDE series crewmember for 4 years.

 

The spoilers don't accomplish much anyway cause you got nothing but air turbulance after it hit the roof.

 

One thing I noticed about my car during a long road trip. I drove along and it began to rain. I'm on the hwy say about 60-70. Now it's not a super hard rain that you have to slow down cause you can't see, rain. It's a "be careful, but drive at a decent clip," rain. I noticed even going as slow as 45 or as fast as 60, that the rain never got on my back glass, not a drop. Granted this has nothing to do with spoilers, but it does with areodynamics.

Now I jacked up my stock spoiler, by putting a stock 88 spoiler off a camaro under it. No clue what it did to the pitch or down force, but it did raise the spoiler and change the angle slightly. It also allowed the spoiler to overhang the rear further than in its stock form.

 

These wings are supposed to actually be functional for better handling at high speed. If you look at the standard Firebird wing (early 80's TA wing) it is flat on the top and curved under the bottom. It is an airplane wing flipped upside down. the air moves faster underneath, creating a low pressure area there. The pressure differential betweeen the lower side and the flat top is what gives you the downforce. The late 80's TA wraparound is more effective because it has more area than the narrower (front to rear)Firebird wing. I have had my car up to the speed limiter (120), and at those speeds, the rear of the car definitely rides harder and lower. I think that the GFX and spoilers are really just starting to become effective at say 100 + MPH. That is just my guess. I do know that they were included on so many cars because so many people want the sporting/high speed apperance. I guess that is why so many of those import guys have thos big wings. Oh, the third brake light under the wing of a lot of Firebirds in the late 80's negates much of the available area of the wing. Hope that this sheds some light on things. Also, my back window will have two definite rain patterns on it, and both of them curve in between the two posts on the spoiler.

 

What I think is funny is that the Camaro Z/'Roc wing CREATES lift, while the 'Bird Wrap around creates DOWN FORCE.

 

How about a moveable wing with a sensor on the rear axel (to tell how much pressure the car is putting on the springs) to controll it? Big trucks have a sensor arm that tells them how much air to put into their air suspension. There would have to be a time delay so you didn't read every bump in the road - but that's no big. You could even rig it with a button on the dash for "Airo braking ... Too much technology for me.

 

For the most part, wings serve merley as a visual stimulant until you achieve speeds well above 70 mph. For a wing to be functional in terms of adding significant downforce, the wing must be angled down a bit and somewhat tall like in the picture below.

As far as louvers are concerned, they do serve a purpose, they block out heat and limit visibility in. I should know I had them on my bird for 5 months until I took them off. The cons are they add 30 pounds, rattle and squeak, leave watermarks on the windshield, develop dangerous turbulence, and at some angles they look like armadillos. I liked the look of louvers but when I was putting my louvers back on when a sudden gust of wind pushed the louvers out of my hands and the louvers flipped up in the air and slammed down on my car roof. (the top hinges were still attatched). Now my louvers are bent and have a nasty flat grey look to them, and they never sat flush with the glass. After that I finally decided to leave them off for good. I'm sure that many of you you are glad that there is one less louvered Fbody out ther now.

 

Porshe has a wing that raises and lowers .