Can any body try to explain how i can rig up a cold air intake on my 1990 firebird 3.1 in detail.:lala:

 

save your money and buy some headers. You'll notice a big difference with these. Cold air intake doesn't do squat over just cutting out your stock air boxes below the airfilters and installing a 180* thermostat and lower temp fan switch.

Besides, the ABS plumbing under the hood look so frikin ridiculous campared to the nice look factory intake.

ILL PROBABLY CATCH ALOT OF SH*T FOR THIS COMMENT BUT IM A CONTRACTOR- I HAVE TONS OF ABS LAYING AROUND SO I TRIED IT JUST TO SEE IF IT MADE A DIFFERENCE AND IT DID NOT.

 

Go have a AFrikinGoodTime with yourself...

 

Thank you Ozzy Ozboure wantabe. Did my comment offend you or maybe your Abs intake gave you a 12 sec car when combined with your perscription drugs of course.

 

Arrrrrrock Onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn...
With your bad self :rockon:

 

moonlight_dan, welcome to the boards! There's really not much to explain as regards the cold air intakes; basically, you just rebuild your stock system as you want. The sensor in the side of the air box is an air temperature sensor, and does NOT have to be in the air flow to work. As long as it's "near" the filter, it'll read accurately. (If you hung the sensor by the hot engine, that wouldn't be too good! )

The 3.1 Firebirds have a different airbox style than the 85-89 Firebirds. 85-89's suck dirty air in through the lid. Your 90-92 Firebird sucks dirty air in through the side. If you look, you'll see a small "inlet" poking out of the side of your airbox. For a quick ram-air intake, you could attach a length of dryer hose (home depot) or air intake hose (Pep boys or similar) to that inlet pipe, and lead it so it faces the "front" of the car, and is in the air stream. One problem; that inlet pipe isn't too wide.

You could re-do the piping to take a K&N conical filter. Go to http://www.knfilters.com and get a catalog; when you get it, you'll see all kinds of conical filters in there. But basically there is a conical filter to fit any kind of inlet pipe you can think of (1 inch, 1.5 inch, 2 inch, etc... up to (i think) 6 inch inlet!) So the best way for your intake would be to:

1. Ditch the stock airbox
2. Fab some kind of piping to replace the throttle-body-to-airbox piping you have now
3. Put a k&n conical on the end of the piping
4. Isolate the k&n from engine heat as much as possible. One idea is to make a "shield" that goes over the K&N, and is open where the K&N faces the fender.

And Africkingoodtime, I do have to disagree. A cat-back exhaust system and a cold-air (or ram-air, for the highways!) intake should be the first mods done. The more air you can get into an engine, the more air you can spit out. An engine is basically an air pump. What good would it do him to have an engine that can "exhale" easily, but has a problem "inhaling" fresh air? If you wanted to add headers to his mod list, I would suggest the following sequence... 1, cat-back exhaust... 2, cold air or ram air intake... 3, headers.

Oh yeah, and #0, a major tuneup!

 

See, I knew I was right. Is this guy(Africkingoodtime) getting on anyone elses nerves?

 

Sorry, I agree with him.

My cold-air and K&N's were a waste nof time and money. I felt no difference, except maybe my wallet was a few grammes lighter.

 

You must have other probs with your car then....

 

Maybe the reason I felt something was because I designed a ram-air intake? The car pulled stronger after the ram air, and, when I put my stock piping/airbox back for emissions testing this January, the car was noticably less "peppy". But how much coin is a homemade cold-air/ram-air intake? Mine was about $80, but the K&N conical was huge and cost $45, and I spent $40 on a mandrel-bent 2.5" J-bend from Hooker Headers. If I went with PVC instead of pre-bent exhaust pipe, I would've saved more money.

 

Tom, you have the right idea but only backwards. You can not get more air stuffed into the front side of an engine unless you open up the backend first. Once the backend is open then you can work on the front and the middle. Your quote says"An engine that can exhale easily". These engines with the stock exhaust manifolds and stock y-pipe do not exhale "easily", if they did then a larger intake would help. On my Camaro, the stock intake with the airboxes cut out will easily out-perform the stock exhaust manifold I am presently stuck with until CHC came along with his headers. And I still think it will be adequate with the headers on because even with a larger throttlebody, the intake air tubes are still larger in diameter. Besides, there is only so much air that will travel through the MAF tunnel and it is plenty cold with the running radiator temp decreased.

 

He's actually arguing wit TomP..

Hahahahahhaah

 

I already have the exhaust and I 'm trying to do the cold air. I'm intrested in the headers but I need some info on them. Could I install them myself or do I have to take them to somebody to do it? Would they fit on my exhaust or would I need to get a new system? How much are they? Stuff like that.

 

Every car I have ever owned I have installed headers on. I rarely let anyone else touch one of my cars but an application such as these custom made headers will need to be married with a custom made y-pipe after the headers are installed. There are two routes for this.
1)install them myself.( $150+shipping for headers from CHC). Then have the car towed to an exhaust shop for the y-pipe fitting (Aprox. $50). Y-pipe custom made and installed ($100-$150). Total cost aprox. $400

2) Take everything to the exhuast shop and just have them do it.
($150+shipping for headers)($150 to remove old and install new/ I figure I can do this in 2 hours myself so I'll pay a pro $75 an hour tops for 2Hours labor.)($100-$150 for custom y-pipe). Total cost aprox. $500


This now opens the door for any other motor mods you could ever want to do. You would now have a Performance minded 60* V6 which is rare because nobody else makes headers for these and if CHC doesn't get enough orders, Then NOBODY will make them. GET THEM WILL YOU CAN ASAP.

 

i felt a nice difference..............

 

i AGREE.

 

I'm in. So how do I order them? I have the money now.

 

Er, I still disagree. You're also a bit backwards! You can not get more air exiting the engine unless you open up the front end first (to flip your words around, backwards). Case in point, we're both right, to a degree. You're just arguing with me about the order in which these mods should be performed. My order, ignoring other mods, is:

1. Aftermarket Cat-back exhaust
2. Improved intake
3. Headers

Your order is:

1. Aftermarket cat-back exhaust
2. Headers
3. Improved intake


You're saying that he should open the exhaust as far as he can, and run with a stock intake? How will that help anything? At least by adding a cold-air intake now, he'll be able to get a bit extra out of his motor via the cat-back exhaust he has on now. (moonlight_dan, which brand of catback is it?) Then, when he does add headers, he'll see even more of an increase.

Now, why did you take my wording out of context from my quote? My quote actually says "What good would it do him to have an engine that can "exhale" easily, but has a problem "inhaling" fresh air?" And I still pose that question to you. I was asking why you would have him put headers on, but still be choked by the factory RESTRICTIVE intake.

I never said that our motors with factory manifold & y-pipes exhale easily! However, by replacing the exhaust system after the cat, you help the motor to exhale easier.
If that were so, nobody would buy cold air intakes. An engine with an aftermarket cat back will "exhale easier" than one with a stock cat-back- never mind the manifolds and y-pipe!

One more thing; you haven't mentioned the year of your car, but I assume it's an 85-89 Camaro because you mention air boxes (plural) instead of an air box. You've also mentioned a "MAF tunnel". If I'm correct in gauging the year of your Camaro, this means two things: One, you're equipped with a mass air flow sensor, and a factory dual-snorkel intake. Two, you didn't notice that moonlight_dan's car is a 1990 3.1. Are you familiar with the difference in intakes between the years?

The 85-89 Camaro 2.8 MPFI (and V8 TPI) motors received the best intake for the third gen f-bodies. The two air filters placed in front of the radiator are in a "high pressure area". This high pressure area helps extra air to come into the air box. The intake is also of a straight design- from the filters around the hood latch, the intake goes straight back through the MAF, and straight into the TB. A simple and powerful ram-air can be constructed as is detailed in thirdgen.org's tech section, message is https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/ramair.shtml

The 85-89 Firebird 2.8 MPFI (and V8 TPI) intake resembles that of the 1990-1992 Firebird and Camaro 3.1 MPFI (and V8 TPI) intakes. Instead of dual filters in front of the radiator, these cars use an air box located at the front passenger side of the engine compartment- typically where the 85-89 Camaro battery sits. This intake has three problems: #1, it's not in any high-pressure area, and doesn't have as much air "readily available to it". #2, instead of grabbing cooler air from the front of the car, the filter box is located in the engine compartment. (I assume this raises the intake temp by only 1-2 degrees, but if we're going to nitpick, I'll do it all the way! ) #3, the filter area exposed to the outside air is small compared to the dual filter area of the 85-89 Camaros. Any cold air or ram air system would be better than this sideways sh_t that GM thought up!

SO, in conclusion, there is no way moonlight_dan's 1990 Firebird intake is as good as your stock intake. To even approach your ideas, he should have your intake, right? (Firebird hoods slope too much to use the 85-89 intake.) All Firebirds (including his) are at an intake disadvantage to all Camaros. If moonlight_dan designs a cold-air (or ram-air) intake, he'll be removing GM's intake tubing restriction... something you havent had to worry about with your Camaro.

In fact, remember https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=109223 ? You mention in that thread how our tiny V6's barely suck any air. As I mentioned before, an engine is an air pump, no matter what size, how many cylinders, or how many strokes. That's it. Our tiny v6's might "barely suck any air", but you know what? That also means that our tiny v6's barely spit any air out! Would you say that a tiny 350 barely sucks any air compared to a 502? Would you argue against using a cold-air intake for the 350, because it barely sucks any air? But many people have intakes on their 350's... if intakes were so bogus, why would anybody use them? Most of the intakes we use are fabricated in our basements, not pre-purchased. I could see your arguement if he were to buy an intake for $300 or headers for $150. But the price for a homemade intake is cheap! In fact, I prefer the "homemade intake" idea- I still get a chuckle when an import owner pays $200 for a short aluminum tube and tiny K&N.

Oh- just noticed- 91Teal noticed an improvement, and he's got the same side intake as moonlight_dan. I think Xeno has an '86 Camaro, and it could be why he didn't feel an improvement.

 

Tom, I read your article and I must admit I was ignorant towards the firebird intake. I do own an '87 Camaro with the intake you described and must admit I am not wrong about the camaros but am off base about the firebirds design. My apologies to everyone.

These engine do "hardly suck any air" because the diplacement is so tiny. I once stated that I am around hear long enough to find out what the outcome of CHC's headers are, mainly for smog reasons otherwise I would have grabbed them and ran by now. My engine will definately not suck-in any more air unless I can free up the exhaust manifolds. If I added the larger trottlebody now it would not show anywhere near the gains that it would if I had headers on this motor to allow the gases to escape faster. So no matter what I do up front on the intake side, it will be insignifigant in gains as apposed to the gains headers alone will do without any other mods.

My whole point is you can not build a proformance motor on stock exhaust manifolds. You need headers. Now if this statement were wrong then why does every racecar on the face of this earth run headers. If you can't buy them, in my opinion, its a waste of time to do anything to this motor because the stock unit doesn't promote flow.

You always get better gains from just exhaust mods first on an engine then you will ever get on just intake mods on an engine.This if if the engine is out of a car. However, If the air flow is pinched off when the engine is installed into a particular car model then your statement is correct. We are both right in different sinerios.

Again, my apologies to the firebird guys on my ignorance. My fault was I assumed everyone had the same basic airboxes I have.

 

The guy who owned the car before me got the exhaust done at shop here in VA.

 

Dan,
I hope the pics I sent ya help abit.
The exhaust stuff.
Our biggest obsticle is that "Y" pipe after the factory manifolds.
IF that "Y" pipe is a smoother bend/junction, the factory manifolds have a way better chance of doing some good (open hood, passenger side, look straight down, see that "T", deduct atleast 5-10HP).
These 60* exhaust manifolds are not the worst.
BUT kinda close.
I'm hoping the headers will pass the CA Smog board, I'd certainly enjoy a better breathing exhaust system.
ANY racer worth his salt will and tends to employ the use of headers.
BUT, many cars do go quite fast with factory cast iron manifolds and a good aftermarket designed exhaust system. I happen to know for a fact my 1968 Firebird 400 factory exhaust manifolds did very well.

It's a package deal, mods in air intake, exhaust, ignition, all contribute to performance gains.
In what ever order ya choose.
Confusing?
Yep, part of the fun!
The fresh air inlet really is beneficial on the freeway & at those speeds.
Around town, BFD.
The Firebird is the most "fresh Air challenged" car I've ever had...
That's why my air inlet is a double edged attack.
More air from the hood/headlight door into top of air box & scooped air from the ground to exit infront of the air box, too.

 

That's alright; I was wondering why you were so against doing an intake, until I noticed that bit. Yeah the factory air box is downright ridiculous. Off the TB, we have a very WIDE oval hose- not a round hose like the Camaros. The WIDE (guessing 4" wide, 2" tall?) hose joins a rectangular "air duct" which goes right above the electric radiator fan. The air duct then has another hole that exits right by the passenger side's lower main frame rail, by the radiator side tank. The MAF connects here, and there's a 45 degree elbow that's glued to the MAF. The elbow points up "just enough" to meet the air box hole. I would love a camaro dual-snorkel intake... even just for the fact that it's straight and not curvy!

'Fact, I pulled my MAF screen- and immediately got a computer error code. The code was #34, low air flow. I put the screen back, and the code didn't come up. Know what I think? That the 45 degree elbow attached to the MAF was screwing up the sensor. The screen forced air to go across the whole sensor. With the screen removed, the air was entering the MAF at an angle, and hugging the "outer wall" of the maf. Sort of like how a car takes a turn at high speed. When an 85-89 Camaro owner pulls the screen, they just get a rough idle, no error code- because their intakes are straight on.

I think the only mod an 85-89 Camaro owner should do for their intake is the ram air mod mentioned at the link I gave above. But someone on this board tried it and found out it blocked the radiator and made the car run hotter. But I'm all for the 85-92 Firebird and 90-92 Camaro owners building their own intakes.

I never argued against headers at all; I'm all for them! Believe me, I've seen the stock manifolds, in my hand, on my workbench. Not too many things to port on 'em unless you want to risk cutting through the walls- and I don't know how thin the cast iron could be made until it cracks under stress.

And from that point on, we just conflict about which order the mods should be done, that's all.

I did find one "free mod" that helps the exhaust out. Notice the little cast iron donuts between the manifold outlets and y-pipe inlets. Seems like GM had them on two boring machines; one machine from each side. There's a big "step" in the center of those donuts. I used my air die grinder (which took a while) and then a round metal file (which was fast!) to take that center ridge down, and to hog the inside diameter out a bit. Then I used the die grinder to give the inside a "final polish". I felt a bit of an extra kick in the butt; I didn't expect to feel anything. Might be worth looking into until CHC gets the funds/time for more headers. Took me a couple hours. But then again, those manifold-to-y-pipe nuts are hard to get off- you might want to wait for the headers as opposed to the risk of snapping off a nut and running with an exhaust leak for a month or two.

 

I made a temporary setup today(cold air intake). I'm going to change it a little bit to make it look better. But all I used was a radiator hose with a bend on the end and a funnel. I ran the hose up through the fender and just straight into the airbox. It's not the best looking setup but it works. I took it for a test today and I did notice a little more pep. It ran at a lower temp too. Should I put a screen on it to keep debris from flying in or will it be fine? If you have any suggestions to make it more attractive please tell me.
[IMG]http://[/IMG]

 

A screen?
Womans Nylon stockings.
Tape around the side of the hose.
You have a great start.
Home depot has lots of "options" too!!!
Check roofing/gutter section.....

 

Thankyou, Thank you Dan! Finally someone who else run the ideal size hose, that being same or slightly bigger as the air valve on your plenum. Thats all you'll need. Now just get you a thin narrow vacuum attachment ( industrial shopvac type) to mount in a cut out section of the air dam, and attach that to the hose. No air box mods are necessary cause the openings all have slightly more area than the throttle(air) valve.