tomp, ked, and others...

i have searched, too many good posts on this! i just get jumbled!

i am going to change my timing chain over spring break, need to know what parts (if any) i will need to order ahead of time, rather than pick up at any local part store.

here's what i gather form searching...

timing chain/gear set.....available locally
chain tensioner.........????
rtv.......locally
gaskets.....???(do i even need? do they come with set??)
puller type tools......locally (rent from auto zone)
water pump.....(do i need it if mine is recently new??)
fluids.....(coolant only?)

what else do i need??

thanks guys.

P.S....91, 3.1liter

 

Timing chain, check
Tensioner, not needed
rtv, check
gaskets, check (my cloyes didn't come with any)
puller tools, check
wp, up to you
fluids, check, anti-freeze, and I recommend oil at same time.

What else?? Lots of beer, chips, warm garage, and tunes, gasket scraper, maybe some slight sand paper.

 

so for gaskets.....just water pump gasket and timing cover gasket??

and how about that balancer snout thing?? where would i get one of those??

will i need a torque wrench??

 

Advise the snout sleeve. Just get a timing chain gasket set, it should come with both, and possibly that sleeve too.


Tourqe wrench, I dont think you would need it, but if you can borrow/rent next to nothing, I would advise it.

 

well, while your in there, it would be VERY wise for you to...
change the tensioners and guides, who knows, 5K miles from now they could break then ya gotta pull it all apart again. do it while your in there. change both sprockets. if you ever planned on doing a camshaft swap, nows the time to do it. your really 3/4 of the way to a camshaft swap. change the timing chain cover, and now is a good time to do the Front Main Seal.
change both anti-freeze and oil, you gotta drain the antifreeze anyway, the oil might get junk from your rags or gasket scrapings or anything else in it.

 

what happend to tom p why dose he not come on here any more?????? tom are you out there

 

My 3.4 did not have a chain tensioner. It did have a guide, and was told replacing it was 50/50. But going with cloyes, you have to take it out

 

tom p prolly got an 8 cyl. hahahahaha

 

hes to good for us now....

 

If I got an 8 cylinder that isn't even GM, and I still hang on these boards, so can he! He's probably soaking some sun up in the bahamas with supermodels in tiny bikinis or something.

 

i think hes married, but that sounds like he would enjoy that...
anyone remember the huge *** spider post? yea i bet he bought a house real far away from that one

 

What I've done......
Dale the 3.4's also have the tensioner.
Which is that hard plastic trianlge thing in the middle.
GM calls it a tensioner.
I got
Store brand NEW timing chain (Dyno Gear set # 73042). Cost was about $30
I got the balancer Snout Sleeve (Fel Pro or Pioneer #14908 or HB4127-S (ask for a 2.8/3.1 application & I used this on my 3.4 balancers) Cost was $4.
Fel Pro Timing Gasket Kit - Cost was about $30
NEW WATER PUMP (it's in your hands!) cost of $19
New tensioner - for about $10 (parts store or GM)
I borrowed balancer puller from parts store.
Add new bottom hoses if ya need so

DEFINETLY BE SURE TO LOOK AT
Your Timing Chain Cover.
MAKE SURE you are not about to have the water passage eaten thru (by poor maintenance of radiator fluids-I replaced my TC cover, mine was about to spring a water fluid leak!).

How to install balancer sleeve - EASY!
I took fine grade sand paper, sanded "clean/shiny" balancer snout, applied Gas-A Cinch on inside of balncer snout sleeve, tapped the sleeve onto the balancer snout, using a block of wood.
WHEN YA INSTALL NEW CHAIN-
SET THE EXPOSED OLD GEARS AND CHAIN AT THE DOT TO DOT SETTING.
AND NEVER GOOF AND MOVE THAT SPOT, EVER! during this mission. If it does, make sure you put back to that spot, immediatly
Remove the old, replace with new
TIP TIP TIP
MAKE SURE THE T CHAIN IS LEVEL FLAT!
Use a metal straight edge or any method possible to be sure!
* (gear)
!
* (gear),
NOT
*
/
*
This removes ANY EXTRA TENSION from the chain, increasing chain life-milage span.

Second -
How to remove the bottom gear -
this is so much fun!
I got (was suggested and never did this before) a metal chissle, that was sharp (mine was next to new).
On bottom gear is the KEY CHUCK AREA of the gear (weak point!).
TWO GOOD SOLID HAMMER WACKS, cracked this gear open like some women after a few drinks!!
Insert bottom gear was simply, grease crank snout, tap gear onto the crank. AGAIN CHECK LEVELNESS!!UP/DOWN GEAR ALIGNMENT!!
Third
use RTV RED locktite fluid on the under timing chain cover bolts, so they never loosen!

Put all back together.

Wipe motor oil onto the new balancer sleeve, tap balancer onto the crank, apply/tighten the crank hold down bolt, tap more, repeat.
NO NEED TO SLAM THE BALANCER, solid taps (on top and bottom-alternate "tap" location and tighten, works perfect!).

My cost was about $70+ total, all basic parts. Add to the bill for other necessary parts (or fluids for friends/helpers!)

HOW IMPORTANT IS THE BALANCER SLEEVE AND THE TENSIONER.
For me.....
You see I've done TWO 3.4 swaps.
On my Firebird job, I was rushed, uneducated.
I am tearing apart my Firebird 3.4 motor to cure leaks and add new tensioner.
On my Blazer 3.4 Swap, I already did this extra work.
I expect ZERO leaks from front of that Blazer 3.4 motor.
My Firebird 3.4 motor, does leak from the front, oh well. And I am replacing the tensioner, which I didn't so before.
Live & ask for tips before ya do the work.
SOME HERE don't go the full route.
I feel, the extra steps are worth it, for the longer engine life.
I even replaced a TC cover, so I have no water passage leaks. I like being through and lazy later on.
Lenght of time - Firebird job once did in about 4 hours. I have to do this project again & will take longer to be more through!
Blazer motor, the engine was a swap project, part of the swap mission.

IT IS YOUR CALL what brand T chain to use.
I bought (twice) a NEW T Chain brand that was correct application.
Some buy more expensive.

It's your call.

 

My books called that a guide, not a tensioner. But with the cloyes chain, you have to remove that anyway.

 

I'm out here, just not as much anymore. Too damn busy. Made a list of suspension stuff to buy over the weekend; wow, scratching $800 and not even done yet. It's gonna be an expensive summer.

If you buy a local timing chain set, make sure you get both gears with it. Don't put a new chain on old gears- it's a good way to beat up the new chain and send metal thru your motor- the old gears will chew the new chain into submission. If you go with a stock chain set, think about replacing the tensioner; it's a metal "V" with rubber on the sides. Didn't reuse mine, as Dale said, it can't be used with the Cloyes true dual roller chain.

My Felpro gasket set came with everything I needed, gasket-wise, including the seal for the front cover. I used Permatex "Hi-Tack" red gasket sealant on the pump-to-cover gasket and cover-to-engine gasket... it was $3 for a can with the brush in the cap, and man, it's sticky stuff. Be careful when scraping the chain cover; it's aluminum, and gouges easily. (Thus the need for the sealant!) Be careful with the water pump; you might wind up replacing a good one with a bad rebuild job. (Went thru 2 pumps before I got a third that didn't leak. You can bet I didn't change the pump when I did the chain 2 years later!)

Bought a ducksfoot balancer puller for $10. Bought a small 3-ton 3-jaw gear puller (for the crank gear) for $20. As Dale recommended, a torque wrench ($30, Sears) and a book with Torque Specs (e.g. Haynes or GM Service Manual) is required. A C-clamp helps to take the water pump pulley off if you forget to loosen the bolts before taking off the belt. (Put the c-clamp on the pulley so it won't spin when loosening the bolts.) As always, use high-quality sockets, no cheap no-name "$15 for 50 piece toolset" junk.

Don't draw the balancer back onto the motor using the center crank bolt!! I tried that; snapped the center bolt off in the crank snout. Either pound it on with a block of wood and a hammer (do a search for the dangers of this method), or buy the correct balancer installer tool- hard to find locally, best bet is a mail order store like http://www.eastwoodcompany.com . The fix? My mechanic arc-welded a junkyard balancer to my crank snout; it's been that way for years without a problem. (People warned me to the contrary; but he'd done it before, so I trusted his experience.) Why a junkyard balancer? My isolation ring had deteriorated and the outer ring was falling off. Lucked out on the junkyard balancer, didn't need the repair sleeve, no grooves in the balancer flange. Oh by the way, all 60 degree V6 balancers are neutral balanced, and you can buy a new one for $35 from GM.

 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure even the 305's and 350's are neutrally balanced too.. Makes things a little bit easier. My Mustang 302 is externally balanced, and my balancer is coming apart, so it threw the engine for a wobble..it's getting fixed now..*** I hope my bearings are ok. Stupid Ford.... (They slightly weighted the crank but couldn't enough, so they counterweighted the balancer and the flywheel)

 

Oh, so us people that went and got 8's are too good for you now? Thanks. I'll just stop posting vast relevant v6 tech info

Don't pay any attention to 'em, Tom.. they have much to learn.

 

Ha ha..I don't think Tom got himself a V8, did ya Tom?? I did...

Actually with gas prices now, I'm jealous of the V6ers again. Car's in the shop to get the little 9.5 mpg problem corrected....even still though, 15 mpg with gas being $1.75 for reg is getting me pretty pissed!

 

Nah.. Tom's still true to the cause.. or.. err.. happy with his car. Either way. Oct 2001 I was finally sick of the trans in my 6 dying.. and then I ran across this 700r4 for 800 bucks.. unfortunately, I was saddened to discover it was a v8 transmission and wouldn't bolt up.. good thing it was still bolted into a running '88 camaro, which was thrown in with the tranny for free

 

Did you use the Cloyes double roller? I saw one in JEGS for $94.99 for the GM 2.8 V6 80-91. Part number 220-9-3137

 

Sounds right to me cc.

I payed just over a bill for mine to my door step.

 

WOW tom p is back.... good to see your back......