So, i bought a 89 Firebird from a freind for 100$. Long story short, they thought the transmission was blown (700R4) so they sold it to me. Being the genious that i am, i replaced the broke tranny fluid filter and added some tranny fluid and it works fine. Car looks ok, no rust exept for drivers side door and paint needs to be redone, but not critical.

So, now after giveing it a major tune up and replaceing all the tie rod ends, front brake pads, calipers and rotors my car finally works. (not street legal yet)

So, now i want to make it pretty quick without getting a 3.4L or a SB 350. The reason i dont want to do the 3.4L swap is because if im going to get a new engine, i might as well get a 383 stroker or something.

As i understand, an 89 2.8L has around 160hp stock, i would like to get it to at LEAST 190hp. I need a whole new exaust system because mine is rusted to hell and back, so i figure a flowmaster cat back and a Dynomax Catalitic converter would be a wise move.

I wont be doing any racing or anything like that, but i would at least want to be able to dust those ***** punks whenever i get the chance.

So, what do you V6 experts recomend for getting my car to run a little faster than it already does? Im having a very hard time finding any aftermarket parts for the 2.8L

 

Welcome to the boards. Aftermarket parts for the 60 degree V6 are very hard to come by.
However, There are a couple things you can do to make yours a little quicker.
For starters:

Look into a custom PROM. You can make them yourself for the price of buying a hypertech or jet, and you can tailor them to your specific needs.

Do some port work. Open up the plenum, manifold, etc., whatever you feel comfortable doing.

I know that at one time auto zone sold 2 different camshafts for these cars, one was a direct OEM replacement, and the other was what they called "more performance oriented", although I never looked into it any further. They were both around $100.

Get a shift kit. You should be able to find one of those for that transmission easily.

You can change your rear end gears as well if you like. a 3.42 or 3.73 works nicely, they are quicker off the line, and don't sacrifice too much on the economical end.

If you feel so inclined, you can delete your a/c to recuce weight of the car. Weight reduction goes as extreme as you make it.

Don't forget your exhaust. Headers and a nice pipe setup can make a world of difference.

You don't have to have 190 HP to make your car quick, so keep that in mind, there are lots of "little" things you can do as well, not in the engine alone.

Hope this helps.

 

Tell me what you want for your 60*V6 and I'll help you locate that part. I have sources for everything.

 

First, your starting with 135hp base and 160 lb.ft for torque. Getting 190 would be a challenge. Exhaust, and intake, roller rockers, jet chip would be a great start. Then if your not at the 190, try sheading some weight. 100lbs can make a big difference in the speed of a car.

 

Welcome to the boards also.

A few things, the 89 2.8 is not 160hp stock, it is around 120-125hp. The 3.1 was 140, and the 3.4 is 160. All stock figures.


You are on the right track, repair the general lack of matinace parts first. Along with a good tune up. Some things people overlook in a tune up, so do a search (upper right hand of the screen) type in in user name, tomp, forum v6, tuneup. He did a great artical.

The 2.8 parts are somewhat hard to find, but they are avaliable. Some are a tad pricy.

Ignition
Exhaust
Cams
headers (just now available)
injectors
fuel regualors
TB
stroke/bore kits
rockers
pushrods
timing chain
Heads (just now available)

Like Agood said, what do you want, we will direct you.

Welcome to the boards, sounds like you got a good deal.

 

As far as shift kits-

1. Don't buy the $20 B&M Shift Improver Kit. Might sound weird to say since I installed mine a few years ago, but it's not a well liked kit on the Trans forum. The "winner" is the TransGo kit, for $120, with an installation video- it replaces/upgrades more parts then the B&M kit does.

2. If your trans is in questionable shape at all, don't put a shift kit in. You'll only destroy the trans faster.

 

Couple things -

First, lighten the car. Seriously, loose all the weight you deem 'excess' such as AIR pump, EGR, etc.

Do the full tune up. Bump the timing to 12-14, depending on the gas you fill up with (89 or 92 respectively)

Port/polish the intake, heads. If you've got the dual snorkel TPI style setup, open up the air boxes under your filters.

Dynomax catback.... if you can, a custom y-pipe would work wonders.

Auto or T5? if a T5, you're golden, as you have the increased gearing + 3.42 rear. Otherwise, get some 28spline axles out of the j-yard, and get the $99 Zexel Torson OEM posi from SLP Performance, with 3.55-3.73 rear end gears.

New LCA's from Spohn.

New cam. Recommend around 204/214 @ .050 with 1.6 roller rockers, and around .420+ lift intake and exhaust on the cam.

That should net you close to 180-190hp, I'd think, running 15's.

Of course, you could just get the 3.4 block from a junkyard, and be miles ahead. If you go 350, you have a lot of work to do - it's NOT just a 'drop and go' like the 3.4 is!

 

wow, great info guys. So what about this 3.4L swap everyone is talking about? Is the 3.4L the same engine that comes in 4th gen FBody's?

How much do 3.4L's at the junk yard go for? and what about 350's? I dont mind about it not being a "swap n go" type thing, i am willing to put time and effort into my car to make it run great and look great also.

 

Also, since the engine and tranny both have 197,000 miles on them, should i just swap them out as soon as possible?

 

At that many miles, I prolly would. I can get a running 40-60k mile 3.4 complete from the junkyard here for $375.

Yes, came in the '93-'95 Camaros. I'd grab a later model 700r4 as well..

See, the problem is that face that the V6 is 60º and the V8 is 90º. But, I'd say if you can find a 350 + tranny in a junkyard, running (HEAR IT RUN) for cheap, you can go that route. You need a 700r4, and the later the year you can get (newer) the better - it seems every year from '87+ got a little better improved...

 

HEADERS

 

I own two sets with a third set on the way- They are availible.

 

See above sticky about group purchase

 

The 3.8 and 4.3 are also 90 degrees and the 4th gen auto is a 4L60E... that might be a viable option... a little better than the 700R4, but both are excellent trannies... of course you could always do the good old 5 speed tranny swap at the same time...

 

Yes, since you want to make your V6 quick without going to a 3.4l or another larger motor, shaving off as much uneccessary weight as possible will be helpfull. Porting and polishing will help out quite a bit too, along with a cam, roller rockers, new timing chain, higher compression pistions, underdrive pulleys (I would leave the alterternator pulley off).

Igintion helps out a bit too, but it can get pricey. I have at least $300 in just my ignition, only because I got tired of dealing with the stock ignition parts failing one me.





Also, what do you consider quick. Just getting into the 15's are hard enough with a heavily modded 2.8l. If you want anything in the 14's or lower, you are going to need some serious forced induction.

 

now come on guys

ok first off a 2.8 V6 has 135 horses stock

alls a 3.1 is is a 30 over 2.8

now first thing first

Catco High Flow Converter and a Dynomax Exhaust

DO NOT PUT FLOWMASTERS ON IT

flowmasters on 2.8,3.1,3.4,3.8 Fbody cars sound exactly like weed eaters

dynomax catback exhaust systems have a nice melow tone

then change out the filter to K&N

oh BTW 2.8 cars have 3.42 gears so leave the rear alone don't worry about posi because these cars will not spin from a dead stop trust me i know i have owend 4 fbodys

then what you do is lighten up the car 4th gen fbody cars have aluminum drive shafts,also get a set of aluminum brake drums GTAs and IROC fbodys have these

shift kit is another helper makes the shifts a lot snappier
i recommend B&M Trans Pak it has three levels,off-road,street-strip,or full competiton

i recommend upgrading your ignition to MSD

last thing if your not happy tear down the motor and install stroker kit,cam,roller chain,lifters,rocker arms,and 3.4 heads

edlebrock makes a cam,timing chain,lifters and rocker arms for these motors

and if all else fails...............NOS
:rockon: :rockon:

 

Wow... not sure where to start with the mis-information in this post... ok, here goes! (just ribbing ya man, we're all here to learn, right?)

The 3.1 is NOT a .030" 2.8. It's a stroked 2.8. The bore is the same on the two engines, it is the stroke that is increased to yield 3.1L.

Exhaust is good! Dynomax catback, good choice.

K&N filters, yes.

Not ALL 2.8s have the 3.42 rear. The automatics are 3.23, and the stick shifts are 3.42. I would also HIGHLY recommend a posi, and LCA's. Won't spin from a stop? I can drop the hammer and spin ALL over the place through 1st gear, and that's with sticky 255/50/16's in the back! If I jump off the clutch and onto the brake, I won't move, and instead enjoy a nice, peaceful smoke cloud.

Once more, not all 4th gens use the aluminum driveshaft (to my knowledge... hell, if so, I've got 5 local I can get them from!!) and I'm not sure about the Aluminum brake drums...

Yep, a 75 shot of Nitrous on a healthy 2.8 will suddenly push you along nicely!

 

I fully agree with not using a flowmaster on a stock motor/ stock cat and stock to mild shift kit. They do sound like a spinning top winding down (lag in between shifts- you know, the rrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrRRRRRR: U's representing lag) The car sounds like a tin can when they overrev and come back down do to lack of positive shifts.

Mine however sounds crisp- rrrrrrRRRRRRR-bump-rrrrrrrRRRRRRR-bump-rrrrrRRRR.... (no lag crackling sound). Its all how you build it and what you merry the Flowmaster with.

p.s I have the 80 series Flowmaster with dual outlets and a Gibson high flow cat, Few other motor goodies also combined with a full race trans (you can't drive this car with an open glass of liquid in your hand even driving slow- you'll be wearing it quickstyle when the tranny bumps through the gears )

 

K&N makes great filters, I added one to my '97 and it definitely brought more power down to the ground... it also helped that I hacked off the front of my airbox too...

I wonder about your traction problem if it's not worn swaybar bushings and the such... or do you have a rear swaybar... unless you've got some good solid mods I don't see how good tires would allow this.

The Aluminum driveshafts are on all V8 cars '94 and up... I don't know about the '93's... I think I heard something different about them...

I'd say a set of 3.73's would provide a pretty good increase over 3.23 or 3.42's

 

.

 

I got an '88, 2.8L, and I agree with doward. I have all new suspension components in the back(as far as the bushings, shocks, and springs go), and I can drop the clutch and smoke the tires through 1st, spin them enough in second to make me wobble in the back, and if it's running good that day, I can somtimes chirp 3rd. But that happens on rare occasions now. ALL of the 1988 V6's got the 3.42 gears in the back, even the autos. Check the tech data section if you want...it's there. I think I'm probably gonna be running times like Doward when I finally get up to the track this spring.

P.S. Doward, I cut the bottom off my TPI intake today. Sounds meaner now. I didn't take off the splash sheild that's under there though, the holes that let air past that thing are bigger than the filters themselves, so I don't think there will be a problem with getting air in there anymore.

 

Did your car come with a rear swaybar? I'm just wondering... it's surprising sometimes what can and cannot spin tires... No offense intended.

 

No secrets - just removed the cat, bumped up timing, good state of tune, opened the airflow MASSIVELY.

4k rpm, drop the clutch, hammer to the floor, and wheelspin city!

Lest we also forget... it's a one wheeled wonder (or peg leg pete, whichever you prefer)

 

yup, rear sway bar most definitly. if you want, you can have pics of the bar tomorrow...

 

Rear swaybar here also... hey, 2.8 boy, what tires are you running?

 

Tires are the standard 215/65R15's. There are brand new Winston "Super Sport" series tires. Cost me all of $200 for the 4 tires. Decent tires to me, don't know seeing as I'm not really into the whole tire scene and down with the spiffy tire lingo...you know, knowing what are good one's and which ones suck a fatty.

 

try the basics that everybody has been mentioning but to make ur car really quick u need to do some open heart surgery on the old 2.8 like head porting and a cam etc.... check my sig for all my mods. if u have a ques about any of them just ask and ill go more indepth.

 

Ha! You're right, ALL 2.8's got 3.42 rear ends! It was the 3.1 with the A4/3.23 and M5/3.42 combos... well dang!

Ahhh.... Man, get some 16's. When I first got the car, I could spin 1st and 2nd with the stock 215s. 255/50/16s (Goodyear Eagle ZR50s) are sooo much stickier. Going from the 215s to the 255s STOPPED (and I mean STOPPED) my wheelspin. When I was able to break them loose again, I KNEW I had increased my power. And also - I haven't been back to the track with the new open air/timing yet... should be upper 16's now!

 

Yeah, I'm thinkin' about 16's but don't have the mula right now. When I first got the car, I could barley get it to chirp second, of course that was because it had a dead cylinder, but that's not the point. I did some tinkering and got it to spin second enough so that the back end broke loose on me, then finally I got it to be able to chirp third with the new tires. I don't do it much now because I think the tranny is goin' out on me, and I know that's gonna hurt to get it rebuilt. There's no way in hell I'm takin' on that task. I did the rear edn, but the tranny's a big HELL NO.

 

I prefer... One tire fire...

 

Er, no, don't go with the B&M TransPak. It doesn't have 3 levels for a 700r4. The B&M Transpak for a 700r4 is the exact same kit as the B&M Shift Improver Kit for a 700r4. Want to know the extra $20 difference? You get a new trans filter with the Transpak. That's IT! Plus like I said the B&M kits are frowned upon for doing more harm then good.

Dennis, were you talking about a full rebuild kit ($300)? Which shift kit are you running?

 

Why not? Get a junkyard one for $100 and rebuild it. There's honestly not much in the trans rebuild, from what I've read in the rebuild manuals. The Haynes "GM Transmission Overhaul" book is a great one- photograph by photograph rebuild of the 700r4! There's some places where you need to check clearances, but for the most part, it's remove old, install new parts in the correct order. That's what I'm going to do. The guy that rebuilt mine as a favor only charged me parts, around $300-$400. (I forget the exact number). Lee Myles raped me for $1300 for a trans that lasted a year and a half! Jerks.

 

I have the 5-speed trans. I know I could probably do it, and it would be a great learning experience, but I don't have the money basically. The only thing I'm worried about is not having the right tools to get it done right the first time. My differential still whines from when I rebuilt it. I have to take it apart again to find out exactly why, but i think it's the pinion depth.

 

Oh, duh, I thought you had an automatic. My bad! I have no idea what's involved with rebuilding a manual trans. Those frickin' measurement tools are expensive, too... the woman got me a Mitutoyo dial indicator a few Christmas's ago, but to get a complete collection of everything...ouch. Especially micrometers...

 

is there a shift kit that will make a neutral bomb not so damaging and how hard is it to do a manual swap i have all the parts actually a whole other car

 

wow this post is 5 years old man lol
anyways nutral droping ur trans is not good no matter what u will break it,i think the hardest part of the 5 speed swap is cuttin a hole for the shifter

 

I would say getting the holes in the firewall in the propper place is harder then the hole for the shifter.

 

Doing those are hard on any transmission, let alone one thats 20 years old...
But hey...when you destroy your one, you have a back up...

But to answer your question...no a shift kit will not make a neutral drop any easier on your tranny.

 

hahaha, yea neutral drops are hard on the poor trannies. i did that once in my cavalier, then i said never again. as for the tranny swap, i'm all for getting that auto out. i'm just wondering if the ecu would match up for manual/auto. that is, if your donor car is carburated and your car mpfi or vise versa. but yea, if its the same years it should be just basically bolt on and cut your holes...i think. if your going to do the swap, i would put a good clutch in too.

 

thanks guys yea both motors are exactly the same and they are both 88s only diff is one is a wrecked black hard top and one is blue t-top w/bad tranny(it was already fried so i just finished it off) the ecus dont have any thing to do with it beacouse the motor in mine came out of a 5speed camaro and it worked fine with my auto