Well my car WAS running ok , i thought it was all almost done except for the timing. Today i tried to start it and it turned and turned and turned and turned, then when it did start up it idled at like 2 g's for awhile then shut off as if i turned the key.I try to start it again and it just turns and now my crappy battery is almost dead.
Might be a stupid question but the fuel hoses that are on the drivers side, they screw into the rubber hoses then metal again, the rubber hoses cant be installed backwards right? and if they were the car wouldnt run at all would it?.
Sound like a timing problem?
Also even though i followed the ****ty haynes book to a T my valves are still loose Originally i thought it was just because the motor wasnt run in awhile and the oil needed to reach the heads but its still has a valve tap to it.
Im SOOOOOOOOOOOO tired of this cold weather here so my car is probably off to a mechanic.
Feels really ****ty to do all this work only to run into a problem. Im sure its somthing stupid too.
Also i replaced the sensor in the rear of the passengers side head with my temp gauge sensor, the sensor that WAS there just controlled the fan correct? If thats all it controlled i didnt need it because i have an independant hayden adjustable fan setup.

 

comon guys im starting to miss my mustang hereI didnt do all this work for this **** to happen, any opinions as to what you think it is? Timing is obvious since i didnt set it yet, maybe i need to pull the dist and set the 1 at tdc? Also im not real happy about pulling the plenum to adjust the valves again!

 

I feel for ya man. And have nothing good to say. I think pre 86 cars have a curse. Out of all the 3rd gens I have seen / delt with, 82-85s were cursed, 86+ were blessed.

Take that sucker to a priest and have it exorcised.

 

idle could be timing, but I have feeling its not. Unless distrib was so loose that it spun it while running and turned itself so far it died

pulling intake to set rockers. I hate it too, very stupid and expensive. I set them to the haynes and have no problem. Are they still chattering, or to tight?

 

Hey, I feel for you . I had a little problem last July(!) with the valves (DPO never heard of thread locking compund) and have yet to fix it... I am almot there though. The valves can be set with anywhere from a quarter turn past no lash to a turn and a half past no lash, any farther and the engine won't run. I agree, the Haynes sucks. You can not reverse the fuel lines as they are one size and only one size for that port-the larger dia one is the feed line and the smaller one is the return line.

Hey, Gumby, you wouldn't happen to know where I could find an exorcist for my engine, would you? It is definitely being a PITA... First it was going good, then I set the rockers (again, really need to get thread locking compound!) and all heck has broken loose... the starter is really jammed itself in there (unless it is a valve against a piston! Uh oh!...) and I am about to break it loose...

Don't forget to reset the ECM when you do this.. it MAY fix the problem, may not. I am switching between two right now and neither is working at the moment... (must have new balancer for timing adjustment! anyone want to help me on this?!)

As for timing, how in the heck can I use a screwdriver in the spark plug hole to find TDC? It's too darn cold here to stick my finger in an oily spark plug hole (oil is bad valve cover gasket-only had one spare)!

 

Well that is one thing I never do. Play with valves unless I have to and even then Ill ask someone else.

I learned a long time ago not to play with things unless I really really have to.

 

check your fuel pump relay. Mine did the same thing, cranked over and over, and that fixed it. What it does is when you turn the key it primes the fuel pump to build up pressure in the line for 2 seconds, then shuts the pump off. If it is broken then you will have to crank it so that the oil pressure will build up and flip the secondary switch. As for the high idle, check the TPS, IAC, and it may even be the ignition control module.

 

DON'T EVER SAY THAT AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

br()bert, you think you hate your engine, try giving mine a crank or two... it only rotates 180* either direction before it stops solid as a rock. Why? I don't know. Looks like the heads have to come off anyways! (Goody.. yeah right.. more headache! )... Anyone know if it is a good thing if loose rockers move when the distributor is turned?

And I had to jump in and adjust my valves the first time otherwise I wouldn't have even bothered, seeing's how I only needed a cat convertor and a front brake job (including calipers... freakin idiot DPO!) to pass inspection.. (until the mouse bite in the timing cover started to leak that is) because they started to chatter like mad on a trip home from the doctor's office and an oil change from heavyweight to lightweight oil didn't help!

And cleaning the IAC/TB air passages might help that idle as well...

 

You could eat off of the inside of my iac and tb they are so clean, I know the timing is off so thats one problem , The plastic lines that went from the tb to the fuel reg broke so i put some regular vac lines over them(maybe a vac leak) When i replaced the head gasket i checked everything, even the lifters, everything looked good,actually they looked great for a 107k motor.The main thing i HATE is the damn valve adjustment. I hate the idea of pulling the plenum and valve covers to redo them. Wouldnt be so bad if we didnt have this damn artic weather on the east.What do you guys think, mechanic or myself? I know of two possible vac leaks, i know the timing is off and i know the valves are not adjusted properly. (and my small battery sucks ***) It just feels like **** to do all the work involved in replacing a head gasket to have a mechanic finish up on a stupid problem. Like i had the car running (after like 2 mins of on and off cranking) and it reved to a 2k ilde so its getting gas. I checked the spark , thats fine, so could this just be bad timing , a vac leak and maybe a tps?(other than the obvious valves)

 

The way I am doing it now is an eighth to a quarter turn past when the rocker arm has no more slop (very accurate, I might add).

 

see when i did it, i spun the push rod while tightening the bolt untill i felt pressure on the rod(no room between the lifter and the rocker arm)and when i turned the rod i could feel the pressure of the arm on it, then i turned the bolt 3/4 turn more. Is that correct? The book says turn the rod till you feel resistance then turn 3/4 more, but after turning the 3/4 more the rod doesnt turn at all. IS this too tight? Could it be one of the problems.I did it the way the book says the first time and the arm had alot of free play (side to side motion)

 

Just barely past no free play is the way to go so you don't end up with chatter. Believe me, I have done it the full lash/up to 1.25 turns beyond method four or five times now and just past no side slop is the best way I have used to reduce the chattering on numbers 2, 4, 5, and 6, and will probably have to do the same to the others when I get locking compound tomorrow. Right before I had the hydro lock problem, the valves were barely audible, before that, they could be heard across town (not really, just to give an example).

BTW, have you noticed that the Haynes manual sucks? Barely anything is right in it, and the body section is purely Camaro (Berlinetta, to be exact). Just to prove my point (if you have the same one I do, that is "dedicated" to just the 'bird) look in the interior bulbs section. The shift indicator light is NOT a 194/161 (whatever the dimmer version of the 194 is) but is a lot smaller than that.

Oh, and unless you are ABSOLUTELY SURE that the balancer/damper's timing marks are correct, assume they AREN'T. You will need to find TDC using the rocker arms on the #1 cylinder and adjust the dist to match.

 

yeah the haynes manual sucks in alot of aspects. Try finding a vac line diagram in it! Hey do valves tightend too much make noise?
The timing mark someone put is soooooooo off, Before i took out the dist i turned the motor to tdc #1 and the mark wasnt no place near the area it needed to be.When i tried to line it up the #4 piston was always up.

 

Okay, you were one complete rotation off on the crank. Cyl 1 is oppsite #4 in the rotation, 2 to 5, so on.

No, overtightnened valves do not make any noise. In fact, they do not make much of anything other than a lot of backfiring because the valves are still open when the plug fires to ignite the gas. The engine does not run but makes a lot of smoke in the intake area.

 

when i first started the engine after the head gasket was done it smoked alot from under the hood. I assumed it was from the new gaskets plus the paint from me painting crap and the rtv i spilled on the exauhst. It did'nt backfire and i could rev it high without any sputter or noise other than the valves. I still dont understand why i got a 2k idle all of a sudden when it idled fine before. No codes either.

 

That would be the oil you used to free up the stuff attached to the exhaust manifolds. That stuff is toxic! Yuck! I have burned that stuff off for hours and have more to burn off yet, but not much. Expect to drive at a decent rate of speed with the windows open and the heating fan NOT running, as it WILL blow the crap right into the cabin. Bypass the cooling fan relay by inserting a piece of wire in the tan/wht and blk/red terminals so you can have the main engine fan running to get rid of that shiz... It is very bad for the lungs! :nono:

 

Fans not a problem, i have a hayden adjustable fan switch wired to a relay so i can control what temp i want the fan to come on at.And **** i wish the burning pb blaster was the only problem! Now i gotta either freeze my *** of fixing this outside in the cold or spend money i dont have getting it towed to a mechanic to fix it after i did the hard part!(head gasket)

 

It will work out eventually, but until it does, you have to freeze your rear end off in the below-zero wind chilled air! It is a curse! We had less snow than we have gotten THIS MONTH all season last year! It is not fair!

Hmmm... "spend money I don't have".... sounds familiar. Like me, perhaps?

 

yeah when the head gasket went ,that was my last week of work, im on PERMANENT layoff and the crappy *** pa unemployment is going by the time period that i made the least $ and im only getting like 80% of that! WTF!!!!And every 2 WEEKS!!! DAMNIT! Then the snow!!! And no garage!

 

Have you hooked up a vacuum gauge? Perhaps the intake manifold decided after a hot/cold cycle it didn't like being sealed?...

 

Hmmm.... double whammy! Being laid off and having your car break down the same week... OUCH! Not to mention the pay sucks! At least you are getting pay... I'm jobless, scared stiff of driving in the snow (first year and being in spin outs up the wazoo don't help) and nobody wants to hire someone with only restaurant experience, and crappy experience at that, especially in the automotive field. So much for going to school in the spring or next fall (I should have signed up for the school before my social security gave out)!

 

Don't you like unemployment. You make say $400 a week for well over a year. Get laid off and they go back to when you worked at MC donalds 10 years ago for $150 a week and only give you 80% of that.

Unemployment is not like welfare, your employer pays for it. So milk it for all its worth. Otherwise the money defaults to the government.

50% of what you make gets put away in your unemployment account. If you never use that money, the government gets it. It like you really make 50% more but never see it. Its there just Incas you get laid off.

you only get paid for what you worked. Nothing like welfare. Its your money, you earned it. Milk your account dry.

 

If you have engine running, the distributor location is "acceptable".
Your main problem is vacuum leaks. I suggest you check behind the distributor driver side PVC set up hose & see how well that rubber is holding up.
Your valves are outta adjustment.
Your primary concern is the vacuum leak causing erratic idle.
Once past that, remove all the stuff & go at it.
Been there doing this head swap as I mentioned earlier on my Blazer. I had all the free stuff & it was wasted effort.
Then I installed the 3.4 & on my Blazer, I am stuck at valve adjustment point, also.
I set my valves by compression gauge readings on my Firebird 3.4. That worked perfect, as I expereinced what you are having now, the fun, prior to using that tool.

Yet, when approaching the valve adjustment on the 3.4 in Blazer, I used same compression gauge reading method & ended up with tapping valves!
Here's what I suggest.
Find the vacuum leak & get idle strong.
IF your engine runs, that should be easy.
Next phone mechanics ya know & ask them to visit or you drive over & how much to wrap up.
Buy new battery anyway.
Drink lots of Brandy.
Hope yours works out well.
I still need do my Blazer valve adjustment, so I'm right besides ya right now.

1985s are wonderful vehicles. Our MPFI set up is the foundation for all the later ones.
When all problems properly addressed my 1985 Firebird works just as well as the 1986 & later cars, SO THERE! :hail:

IF you are cutting corners, problems can arise from that.
I'd also check stretch on timing chain. Sounds like that's next on list and possibly need replace the original balancer as it may be on way out, due to your comment on "timing marks".
It's easy to check. Put 17mm socket on ratchet, twist balancer bolt, rotate engine slightly, see when distributor rotor moves. You'll know instantly if ya have another project, too.
Keep at both ends, employment & auto.
It's gonna rain in Southern California today, too.

 

My intake is sealed, i made damn sure of that. I just thought of something, i've always been a little unsure about the valves being loose, that is why i asked so many questions about them, because i know what a valve tap is like and this sounds a little different. Well last night i was going over it all in my head and i remembered when i took the push rods out the rocker arms werent straight, they were at an angle with the push rods between the metal spacers(i guess you call them) ( i hope you guys know what i mean) and after i adjusted the valves the push rods were agaisnt the metal spacers. This would explain the noise im hearing perfectly! Stupid thing is i looked at the push rods alot before putting the valve covers on and didnt even think of it!
I was driving myself nuts because i know people who have tightend their valves slightly looser and tighter then mine and they are fine. So one down
Ked the rubber boot you mentioned, i just checked it,even though it was fine when i installed the manifold it has a crack going halfway down it now so theirs one vacume leak
The vacume plug that goes into the throttle body? well the middle rubber nipple on that plug did'nt seal insiide the throttle body right, it kinda bent down when i pushed it in. So theirs another vac leak.
So what about the 2k idle? i know all the above would cause hard start and stall when not on the gas but what about the idle? maybe my tps crapped out on me?
Ked i have no brandy but i have whiskey
on other notes, along with the broken car, ****ty weather and unemp payouts i have baby moma drama, the mother of my children could make Satan commit suicide!
HEY the vacume line that is for the heater controls goes from the intake manifold to the drivers side of the car to that round thingy correct?? If so then im not even getting enough to turn the heat on. Bad vacume leak caused by the cracked rubber boot thing on the manifold?

 

The hose by distb. is THICK WALLED 1/2" water heater core hose.
The length is about 1 - 3". Use LOTS of oil to slip that over the opening tube on intake.
Next attack the rest with windshield wiper washer hose of 5/16". It is THICK WALLED AND WILL NOT suction collaspe by engine vacuum.
Just keep at it.
Yes vacuum leak ESPECIALLY by the place of distb. is the main source for ALL vacuum signals.
That has to be right as do rest of the hoses.

Can't help on lack of Brandy nor lady troubles.

Once vacuum signal is tackled, your engine should have a way smoother idle & then you can attack rest of problems.
When ya flipped over the upper intake manifold, you did not disturb any of the cable settings nor "knock anything" right?
IF so those settings should be just fine.

 

what settings Ked? You mean when i did the head gasket? If thats what you mean, i removed the upper and lower plenum and the intake manifold, i unbolted the throttle and trans caBLes but left them in the bracket and tucked them to the side so i didnt mess them up. I guess im a little paraniod now but i just went out and replaced the rubber boot you mentioned and after hooking all the vac lines up i smeared a little silicone over the connections Yeah i know, i know but i want to be sure i have NO vac leak and this was one of the two places i could see a possible leak. Vacume can leak past the dist shaft itself can it?

 

That hose is for the engine main vacuum signal. That seal must be PERFECT and secure.
It is not a "vacuum leak thru distb base".
I only mention the distb. reference due to PVC vacuum signal location on the engine. IF ya recall, there was a large tube sticking up from intake base. Yep!
For me getting to my hose effectivly, I had to remove the upper intake, again. Oh well. Now fixed, problem solved.
My instance, this was best access. I had so much fun.
Good Old Jack Black!
Use the diagram to assist yourself.

 

Heres the vacume lines my car has since my evap can was trash its no longer there and the egr is blocked,the egr thingy is still there and pluged in but all the vac lines are blocked. The rubber boot(heater hose as you said) was cracked bad so i think that along with the vacume plug that plugs into the throttle body created the vacume leak. Also the the pcv tube on the pass side has a hose going into the factory air intake setup connected to the throttle body. The red is the vaccume lines my car has now. Plus the breake booster line and the heater control lines going to the plenum.