Ok,

So here's the question, you've been saving money for quite some time, what you don't have in cash the bank will be willing to make up for in loans, and you've got your eye on a particular set of cars. HOw much are you willing to pay?

This is the details on the cars,

3rd gen camaro and firebirds, built by Eve Customs in St. Louis

The vehicles feature:

INTERIOR-

4th gen dashes w/ functional guages, HVAC, and radio controls
4th gen center console, (automatic for automatic, manual for manual)
4th gen seats (leather, or cloth, choice of the buyer)
new molded carpet
new headliners
4th gen rear view mirrors with map lights

EXTERIOR-

TQII, ZR1, Z06 etc wheels
minor lowering
Perfectly finished body work including paint
Ram air hoods, and possibly factory styled late model iroc hoods

DRIVETRAIN-

LS1, LT1, Northstar v8's
From mild to wild on the performance side
Manual or Automatic Transmissions
Custom exhaust
Possible C4 IRS

Now, essentially you'd be buying a budget set thirdgen with modern sports car performance, and "low" insurance rates. what would any of you be willing to pay for such a car? We're just trying to get an idea of a good selling price that blends profit and affordability for the consumer. Thanks in advance.

 

That's really hard to say. I frankly don't think you'd be able to build such vehicles and sell them for a profit.

The only people who do this are professional (and I am not saying you aren't) rod builders/ chopper builders etc. who have built such a name for themselves such as OCC Choppers, Rad Rides by Troy, So-Cal Speedshop, Jesse James etc. that people will buy their stuff and they have such a long waiting list of folks wanting something unique with their custom touch (and name, so they can brag "I had 'Lil John Buterra build this duece coupe for me" that price is not the object.

Places like Jesse James don't just build bikes on "speculation" that someone is going to buy it though likely they would, they build something once they have a healthy deposit on it.

The key for you is to find someone to bankroll the project, then you can show it off and see if you can get intrest in building more of them.

Eric

 

well I know a guy who is a sponsor, and just to do the ls1- and transmission and everything runs from 7500-10 grand. This includes everything though, turnkey on a thirdgen. For what you are talking about you could easily look at 20 grand a car,and that's being realistic, but the nitch is finding someone to buy them. This is also with you making very little profit. Maybe 5 grand a car, possibly more depending on the donor cars. I like the ideal, but I don't know that the demand is out there. I agree that the way to start is to build your first one and show and go, and see what kind of demand you get from people.

 

Not me Cap'n... I wouldn't be at all interested, sorry.

Now, a stock appearing 3rd gen, with an LS1/T56... that'd be perking the interest

 

The other thing I forgot to add is that banks will make loans on new cars, but that customized '88 Camaro with the 20 grand price tag will be, in their eyes, worth the book value of an '88 Camaro. And you'd be a fool not to insure the vehicle as a show or collector car for an agreed value (I have a friend with a '68 Camaro insured like this) and he can only put 2500 miles a year on the car and is "supposed" to drive it to car shows, etc.

Eric

 

we really weren't aiming for 20k a car, not on 3rd gens of course, it simply woudldn't make economical sense, especially since a 98 T/A or Z will run what? 15-20 now? Here's a little price break down

Interiors can be had for 500-1000 depending on if we get them from our local guy or ebay (my complete dash, w/ guages ran 45 bux and the airbags are still in the car) Also, i have rear seats in my car now from an 01' maro (ebony leather - still not as dark as i thought it'd be , black is darker) those were 30 bux for the backs, fronts were damaged and left, looking for T/A fronts now for a decent price.

Paint isn't exactly expensive, and it's all done in shop, along w/ body work and any body modifications, stock 3rd gen exterior is all good too, custom doesn't have to mean completely fabricated, just minor work, here and there to give the "customed" appearance.

LS1 engines can be had by way of ebay w/ transmission combos for a price of 2500-3500 bux

And a 3rd gen maro that's missing and engine tranny combo is an easy 500 dollars, don't know if they're the same around the rest of the countyr, but they're litterally dime/dozen in missouri.

so if we stuck w/ a grand interior
grand for paint
thirtyfive hundred on the engine setup
and another say thousand for the car
we're at

6500 for the build - now of course the selling price would be higher than that. some parts will can be had for lower, some will deifnately cost more, so it's kind of hit and miss.


So, it is deifnatley possible that making money will be difficult w/ 3rd gens, might have to reconsider, but that's the direction the company is headed, The other thought is in kits, cobras, coupes, deuces, etc...and financial backing isn't going to be the big problem w/ getting things rolling, just keeping them that way.

thanks for the imput thus far.

 

If I were going to be spending anywhere near that much money (adding a little more to your 6.5k) for a thirdgen that is customized by someone, I'd personally like a say in exactly how and where it was customized. I'd want to have options on most everything, dash, interior, sound system (yes, I'd expect a bit of a system put in), paint, any engine modifications, suspension mods, etc. I'd expect a sweet suspension setup more than anything. Basically, I'd expect one really sweet ride that was fitted to me just how I liked it.

 

I hate to be the bearer of bad news....

This is a pure specualtion game. You will get ALOT of "interested" buyers when you're building the car...but when it comes time to pony up the cash, they mostly seem to disappear.


And $6500 for a LS1 swap, 4th gen interior, body and paint?

Keep dreaming... sorry...

I did this on the side, and for a living for awhile, and the money comes in spurts....


That $500 3rd gen you start with? Is that gonna be RUST free and straight? If not add for body panels...welding time....

What about suspension?

Not to mention, if you plan on doing the LS1 swap the RIGHT way, you'll need to use the GM harness and adapt it to your needs...or spring for a Howell harness....

So add another $500-900 or account the DAYS you'll spending comparing each wiring manual, and soldering / routing doing it RIGHT.

As much as I like the 3rd gens... the market is WAAAAY too soggy to really make this a truly profitable venture.

So let's do a quick breakdown.

$500 - RUST free 3rd gen car ( :P okay )
$3500 - LS1 / tranny w/ harness and PCM
$1000 - LOW ballpark on incidentals for swap ( harness, sensors , mounts etc etc )
$1000 - 4th gen interior
$1000 - wheels and tires...this will get alot more expensive
$1500 - Paint / body work. This is JUST BAREBONES supplies / paint reducer / etc etc... And at $1500 the quality of the stuff won't be that great.
$500 - rebuilt suspension
$500 - rear axle recondition, not to mention ur $500 car was probably a V-6 and needs gears and a posi

What about weatherstripping? If you're doing it RIGHT, you'll STRIP All the old stuff off before paint prep. So that's another $500-800 depending.

So if nothing else comes up, ( trust me it will...it ALWAYS does with these kind of custom builds.. ) that's right at $10k INVESTED in parts.

NOT COUNTING LABOR. Are you doing all the work yourself?

What about the equipment cost / tools?

Paint booth.

Lift...if not a body mounting fixture to get to the underside of the car.

Shop rent / mortgage / power / phone / insurance...


The list goes on.


So if YOU build it by yourself, and you HAVE all the tools etc already...

That's $10k invested. Let's say ur *** when it comes to timeframe and all this only takes you 1 month of working EVERYDAY, ALL DAY.

You'll be lucky if you can sell it within 3 months.


So lets say you immediately sell it for $15k ( IMHO, that's kinda steep...but hey that's just me )

If you charge $10 an hour for your own labor, you made a profit of about $3500 not counting any other expenses.


PLEASE... I'm not trying to discourage ANYONE from doing something they love and succeeding. I'm just speaking from experience in doing this type of work. You'll be shocked to find out that your labor of love leaves when you sell it...and after a few cycles of this, it can get pretty tiring.

BY ALL MEANS, do a google search of some of the restoration shops and talk to the owners...you might be shocked with what they tell you.


Guys like Jesse James? When it's all said and done, he doesn't make much of ANY PROFIT from the actual bikes he builds...after all the overhead, paying his crew etc...the money is in advertising and merchandising. Why do you think he bothers with Monster Garage?

With custom car shops / resto shops, they almost always require HEFTY deposits, that will normally AT LEAST cover the investment of parts for the job. Alot of shops require the customer to sign contracts that give the shop the actual vehicle if the customes decides not to pay...

Some even have the car signed over to them while the work is in progress and sign it back over once completed.

Just surf Ebaymotors, looking at say the higher dollar Vettes and Musclecars...these guys spend $30k + to totally restore a car that will sell for a portion of that....

The HIGH DOLLAR cars can cost up to $100k to restore CORRECTLY, cause the parts are as rare as the car itself.

I watched a guy plunk down $35k for a SHELL of a rusted out Hemi Cuda. No interior..only some of the Hemi...and the body was TRASH. He spent another $40k doing it up, and that was HIM doing most of the work.

HE ended up having to sell it to pay for it's resto...and he didn't make alot of money in the end.


Just trying to be realistic.