I spent the better part of the last couple months working on my daily driver 3.1L Firebird. Now its more comfortable and more fun to drive then my V8 cars, so I decided to install the Nitrous just to see what would happen.

A 125hp shot thru the same setup on my 91 Formula 350 was too much power to put to the ground. For the 3.1 I rejetted for 75hp. The kit is a homebrew version of NOS's universal EFI kit.

Anyway, the result is controllable, V8 power on demand. Launching normal and kicking in the nitrous at about 3,000RPM has yielded a ton of fun. I'll have to take it to the track to find out what kind of times it runs, but I'm guessing low 15's. Its a night and day difference. By far the best bang for the buck for only $600. Less than the price of a good set of headers. Total install took an evening. Everything bolts to existing brackets.

My only complaint is the cost of having the bottle refilled.

 

Gas is 2.50 a pound here...hehehee

 

This is why I fear no boost 12-16 psi should be like a 75-100hp nos shot. There was that other guy who had a 75 nos shot for several years on a 2.8

 

I'll take on ANY V6'er here, if I can get the mighty 3.1 to 16psi! You'd best be bringing more along the lines of a 150-175 shot to topple 16psi on a 3.1!

 

he, 150-175 shot, heck doward if you look at the NOS kit for the fiero 2.8 its a 125 shot kit...so that should be roughly 10-12 psi...don't break stuff dow...keep it runnin.

 

i mean I fear no boost in the sense that I would boost my motor at 12-16 before I would ever run a 100hp NOS shot.

I fear NOS more than boost. Boost can kill but NOS does a better job and much easier from my experiance.

Was talking in the Buick section about in the 60's they had 215 V8 turbo that only ran like 4psi boost but combined with the water/acohol injection it was a screamer. When you got low on water it turned off the boost.

but they got 215hp out of a 215ci motor.

 

16 psi on a 3.1 for how long!?? that is the question.

last time i checked a tta was a v6 too

 

Slap in an A4 & I'll bring my V6.

Hey, I aint no dummy

 

Let me throw a 100 shot on my pos.... You gotta give me two carlengths though......And you have to stage with the engine off....

 

$2.50 a pound! good grief it's almost $4 up here....

 

Dam, turbo go juice down here is still about $1.70 or so.

Drew, how 'bout some pics of the install

 

I like the idea of nitrous putting down that power when u needed but u got to love the always on tap power of boost. Lmao, both id be a little concerned about. Lol not sure which one would be more exciting in long run.

 

Turbo... No comparison. But I'd have to use the gas...I'm cheap

 

A turbo should be more fun. how many people actually run a 1/4miles at a time? The turbo fun would begin with full rpm shift in a T5 on the eway.

 

A turbo would be nice cause its always there and wouldn't need to be refilled once a week. However, engineering a turbo setup, acquiring the parts, and making it work properly would take a whole hell of a lot more than making a simple Nitrous setup work.

Based on the fact that the 3.4L DOHC engines use the same block, crank, rods, etc as a 3.1L SOHC, and makes 230hp. A person can theorize that the bottom end of a 3.1 can take the same power, also the valvetrain design is essentially the same as a sbc so the heads, valves, and rockers, etc should take the same power. Nitrous Oxide Systems (aka Holley) recommends keeping the nitrous injection to 40-50% of the total stock horsepower. A person can theorize then that it would be safe to throw a 115hp shot of nitrous at a 3.1L safely. Based on my 3.1's age (150,000 miles +, and its reaction to the 75hp shot of nitrous, my guess is that 150hp would be handled exceptionally well by the 3.1. Also, in the 3.1 platform the added power is controllable. You can launch the car off the line normally and hit the nitrous after the car's rolling. In other words, you don't waste your power on producing clouds of smoke, the car just accellerates.

A nice side effect is that the increased combustion burns all the carbon out of the engine. It runs better all the time now, then it did before hand.

Now for some pics...

The bottle, easily accessed from the front seat...


The go button, always a finger movement away...


The arming switch, easily accessed... (the toggles are for auxilary interior lighting, and the remote turn on for the amps.)


The engine bay.


The solenoids and relay... In the near future I may replace the N.O.S. relay with a factory weatherpak GM relay.


The all important Fogger Nozzle.

 

Your running a wet system? They do make a system for our cars but its a dry system. How did you figure out the fuel needs?

I guess if the wet system put in too much fuel the computer would lean out its side.


The dry system uses some return line cut off that raises fuel PSI when under boost. Not sure well it works anyways.

 

Another advantage of the nitrous setup is that I can switch it over to any MPFI vehical in about an hour. The solenoids and relay mount to the factory relay bracket thru existing holes. The feed line and wiring to the interior run thru the existing cruise control grommet. The power and accessory wiring plugs into the ports in the fuse block that GM provided for accessories. The activation switch is mounted in an aluminum 90* bracket that I fabricated, which then is retained to the shift **** with two sheet metal screws. The wiring follows the shifter down, inside the boot, down the console up to the wiring under the dash. The fuel supply comes from the factory provided schrader valve on the fuel rail. The bottle is mounted to the rear seat mounting bolt.
Their is no fuel pressure safety switch, or full throttle safety switch. These features were eliminated to make it easier.

For reference the rest of the car is fairly typical, GTA wheels, WS6 sway bars, Iroc Wonder bar, stereo, alarm, etc etc etc. The additional wiring in the car used up most of the GM provided power plugs in the fuse block, thankfully GM provided two 12v always hot ports, and 2 12v switched ports. Everything plugs right in.

 

I started out with the majority of a universal dry kit that I bought from a coworker. I didn't get the solenoids so I had to buy them new. Since the dry kit uses two nitrous solenoids, and the fuel solenoid is $10 cheaper than a nitrous solenoid I converted it to a wet setup. The funny part was that shortly after designing my kit, N.O.S. released a kit thats almost exactly the same as what I assembled.

The jetting is easy enough, I called Holley's tech line, told them what I had assembled and they told me what jetting to use. Now a person can just go to the website and download the instructions for the kit. They have graphs and charts that explain what jetting to use based on the desired power and fuel pressure.

The universal EFI dry kit uses this gadget inline in the vacuum hose to the fuel pressure regulator. It probably works fine, but I've had issues with my 3.1's injectors in the past and thought wet would be more reliable and safe.

 

Sweet setup. I'm going to either be putting a turbo on my 2.8 or else doing up a direct port nitrous system, whichever becomes available to me first. I'm waiting on either A) my dad to get the turbo from the saab down here to Virginia from Maine, or B) my buddy to get his old NOS kit here from Nebraska. Whichever comes first will go in and the other will go on the next V6 camaro I get. (Not going to sell the first, just going to get a second when I have the money available.)

Are you running the stock clutch on that setup or have you gone aftermarket?

 

It all sounds good.

Only thing that look odd is the wrinkle hose for the intake. Id go with a straight pipe. Them little nooks n crannies can capture raw fuel. It may boost performance a bit going with a smooth pipe or move the nozzle. Maybe tap it in right behind the TB at the neck of the plenum.

 

I might be losing a bit to the bellows, but I'm not too concerned. The fogger nozzle mixes the nitrous/fuel, so theoretically any fuel lost to the bellows will be mixed with an appropriate amount of nitrous, therefore it should still burn evenly. I could probably sleeve the bellows with some pvc or ABS pipe, but I'm not going to worry about it. The 3.1L is going away soon in favor of the V8 anyway.

 

Woo... forgot about the TTA.... better hope none of them step up to the challenge, lol!

 

Are you gonna wait for the 3.1 to die before swapping, or wait for a nice wet system backfire?

 

more questions.

How long does it last? until you let off the button or is it a trigger button with a 8-10 sec blast? how many blast you getting per bottle?

 

How many and how long per bottle ?

 

The backfire is pretty easy to prevent, just don't hit it at a low rpm.

I'm not sure exactly how long a bottle will last... The nitrous/fuel keeps flowing till I let off the switch. The first bottle was used on my Formula last year, and I had a leak in the line, so I'm not sure how much leaked out. The bottle I'm running now was a nearly full bottle I borrowed from a friend of mine. I won't know the longevity for a couple weeks.

Right now the car's sitting with a blown out front tire. It'll be a couple days before its going again.

 

Gumby, that's just what I was thinking. Seems like it makes the chance of a backfire a little more possible!

Thanks for the pics, Drew!! Congrats on the install!

And that's a bitchin' looking bracket for the solenoids, too!

 

Smart thing to do. I am probably gonna get flamed on but oh well after owning a v6 (2.8 anyway) and reading of people modding them and saying "Its like a v8 now" I am dropping a v8 in my car.
People fail to realize that all the work just put you with a bone stock v8. Put all that work into a v8 and you will see real numbers.
The v6 was ment for daily driving. Thats why you see like one person on here with a v6 with impressive numbers and hes done a ton of work.

 

I hear 8-10 sec is the most you wanna run it at once? But I like the idea of it just working when ever you push the button. NOS would make a stick one heck of a sleeper. As you would not want to or have enough time to blast 1st. But once 2nd hit 2500+ it would be a wild ride giving them a nice view of the tail lights.

Keep us up to date. Go scare some riÇe.

 

Actually past 20 seconds is pushing it with most internal parts but that all depends on how much N20 you are running. In truth you should be on it as long as it takes to get past the 1/4 mark or the pistons melt which ever comes first.

 

Ther ARE V6's with impressive numbers, those folks tend to be modest (Go to FirbirdV6.com ) Hows 325Hp and 255Ftlbs in a 3.4L sound? Yup, alot faster (guy spent close to 2ooo on the motor).

 

Alot faster than what? a stock 3.4? Sure.Theirs also guys with double those numbers out of a v8. You still dont see my point. Put the same amount of work into a v8 and you will always see more power period. Part of the reason the 6's will never be on the same level as the v8's. I have said this forever, even back when i was thinking about the 3.4 swap.

Mod for mod the 6 is beat.

Put 2g's (or whatever amount you want ) into a v6

then put the same money into a v8.

The v6 is smoked buy the v8...


Back to the subject. Why would you need the nitrous shot for more then 20 seconds anyway? If it takes you more than 20 seconds to do the 1/4 you shouldnt be racing that slow car.

 

Depends on the person doing the mods. Take a '87 IROC, and blow that $2k on rims, paint, wing, stereo, then I come along in my '88 SC, and dump that $2k into a built 3.1, full roller set (timing, rockers, camshaft, lifters), turbocharged on TGP pistons blowing around 16psi, and full 3" mandrel exhaust, and you tell me the outcome

PS - We'll see shortly what it does

 

Geese D why did you have to quote him? There is a reason I have him on ignore. I do not want to be infected with his madness.

We should be able to vote people out of a section if they show signs of such looniesy.

60* rule.

 

Your right on that Doward. Maybe i shoulda said mod the engine only.

GUMBY yeah, i see all the 60* at the track that ,as you say,"RULE"!

The 60* "RULE" so much gm fased them out.

I didnt tell anyone "dude drop a v8 in it" like all the v8 guys did, nor did i call anyone a retard for modding a v6.

I was just explaining my point and having a conversation.

Like all the work Doward is putting into his v6. IF you put the SAME work into a v8 the v6 is getting beat. And that its alot easier to mod a v8 and make MORE power, thats all i was saying.

People get pissed right away and say "Yeah well beat this guy who has 2 turbos and a 200 shot on his 3.4 with a STOCK v8"

They dont get my point!

 

It's just soooo hard to fit a turbo under the hood of a V8 car! LOL
I'm with Gumby, 60* V6 may not be the fastest, it's darn sure more enjoyable to work on. And Doward, I may be in Florida this summer, I wanna see how it's comin along.

 

Yeah im sure all the 2.8 owners love taking the intire plenum off just to adjust the valves!

Whens the last time you saw a v8 owner have to do that? lmao

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...to+square+bore Whats this!? Gumby gets pissed here because im going v8 but read this!? Could it be Gumby the hard core, dryer vent in the hood driving v6er wanted a v8!! OMG !!!

Talk about someone talking out of their ***

 

The V8's just aren't as much fun because the excessive tire spin attracts trouble. The V6 at wot doesn't liquify the 245/50's... even with the nitrous its only a squeel or two when it shifts.

I'm swapping to a V8 because it fits with my final plan for the car. In actuality its probably a better everyday car with the V6 then it will be with a built 305 or 350.

 

If you have excessive tire spin you need bigger/better (not always the same thing) tires or suspension work or both.
Their are guys going VERY fast with small tire widths concidering the amount of hp they are running. Difference is they have suspension work done. Also just because a tire is the same size doesnt mean crap. I went from some cheap cobra tires to yokahama ultra high performance tires, same size as the old cobras but the yok's have MUCH better traction. ESP when wet.

 

"One of these days" I'll be working on a v8 car, too. But there won't be any engine swap with the '86, that'll stay a v6. I plan on buying Another Firebird with a V8 in it already, and starting from scratch on it.

 

Tom im curious to see just how far your 2.8 will go. You've got the most miles on a 2.8 i have ever heard of! A guy near me has 400k on his v6 but its not a 2.8.

 

tom your the only v6 owner i have some respect for your not expecting miracles out of a v6 like the rest of these guys :lala:

 

Expecting miracles? What's wrong with taking a 2.8L motor, stuffing some air into it, and expecting some increase in performance?

 

Theirs nothing wrong with modding whatever you drive,its the noodles who come on here who have 6 feet of dryer vents under their hood with no mods done to their motor who make a bad name for others. Or the ones who say "yeah im gonna smoke a v8, uhm but only if its stock" The 2.8's are 17 second cars IF your lucky. Now whats that jerico (sp) guy got his 3.4 down to 15's? With all that work it took him to get their with a v8 hed be in the 12's EASY.

V8 is easier to mod, easier to work on with the exception of changing plugs and easier to get power out of. Thats all i have ever been saying.

 

Ain't no dryer vent under MY hood. EVERY car has potential, unless you know jack about motors and happen to be broke. Whichever route someone goes to make power, it's all good. Telling someone "it's never going to be as fast as a V8" is bullsh*t. Modding cars that are already fast defeats the purpose unless you want bragging rights or somthing (or you happen to drive a funnycar etc.). The average highschool kid that comes on here with his first car being a v6 doesn't need to have his dreams bashed. If a 4 banger can "perform" so can a 60* v6. The average youngster doesn't expect to get a 12 second pass out of his V6 either (and, like they say"People do..."). Modding cars is a hobby for some people, constructive entertainment. And, as far as working on my motor: At least It doesn't take me an hour to change the sparkplugs, 4 hours to pull the heads, 6 hours to pull the camshaft and whatnot (I do agree that having to pull the valvecovers in this manner is a pain though :L)). And don't go quoting me either, anyone can use someones words against them, that pisses me off.

 

You need to smell the coffee man, mod for mod a v6 3rd gen will never get the power a v8 can. You will NEVER see as many v6 3rd gens in the sub 12 second zone you see v8s in.
The average high school kid needs to know the truth, and that is these motors suck for modding compared to their v8 versions.

Modding cars that are alreay fast defeats the purpose?

You must be joking!? I guess all the land speed records shoulda been tried using a school bus then huh.

People like you talk about beating a v8 then when someone comes back with real facts about how a v6 will never be in a v8 status you get all pissed and go on with non sence.


Go to a track one day when its an f body even. Look at all the v8's with their hoods open. See that guy sitting in his car with his hood closed avoiding eye contact with everyone? Thats the dork who believed some dork on tgo who told him his 2.8 could be modded into a performance engine. Face it man. Your kind is like the doo doo bird...

 

I was sick last week... What's a 'Doo doo bird'?

Dear *** the V6 board is gay. A person can't even come in here and post some positive experiances with a V6 without a bunch of bull**** replies. "Get a turbo" "Get a V8" "Get a job... The bums lost Lebowski". Who cares what someone else likes. Do what you enjoy.


Thirdgens in general are not the cats meow for easy inexpensive performance.

 

how about the other truth of the matter, thirdgens in all retrospec are slow!!! the rare exception is the 89' TTA, and it was even beaten by the latest T/A's on the market. In terms of modern automotive technology, our cars are out dated, under powered, and out performed, so if it's stock, it makes no deal of difference to the rest of the world. Just have a good time with what you're doing, make some changes, talk about em, have a lil fun, and when the days over don't become over zealous with this thought that you have a fast car, because as soon as you think you do, there'll be a nice guy who'll pull up next to you, and blow your doors off, we're all lacking in some arena.

 

Agreed! Except the ;acking in some area part. not sure what you ment by that.