i have a 1987 firebird with a 2.8L V6. i want to drop a V8 in it. i want preferably a carbed engine instead of FI because i really dont feel up to doing all that wiring. im thinking something like this:
http://www.greenwoodchevy.com/engine11.htm

would i have any trouble fitting a motor like that in there? are there any mounts i can get that will fit it?
and what about the trans? i have a 700r4 in it now but i doubt it would bolt to it.
any help would be appreciated. ive never done this before so i have a ton of questions.

Matt.

 

That is your standard Small Block Chevy (SBC) and will use regular thirdgen V8 mounts and clamshells. Fitment on that motor will be easy. Im not sure about accessory routing however, but I bet you could use the stock v8 thirdgen routing. That would actually be a pretty easy swap.

 

what do you mean by routing?

 

As far as crate engines go, you may want to look into this one: GM part # 24502609

Go to www.gmpartsdirect.com or www.newgmparts.com and search that part number. I've seen a couple of people on here running the ZZ4 with good results.

 

As far as how your going to set up your serpantine belt for accessories or where you want to mount your accessories.

 

what about my trans?

 

Its obvious you can't use the v6 tranny, you can use the v6 t-5 if you go with a smaller clutch setup but its not worth it, it will grenade behind either of those engines you'd have to baby it considerably. The cheap route is to get a v8 700R4 and beef it up or baby it, or TREMEC TKO or T-56 six speed. If you have a T-5 THe tremec TKO is a direct bolt in, uses the same hydraulics and everything (Except you'll need a v8 bellhousing), the T-56 requires new hydraulics and cutting of the shifter hole about 2 inches. BOth good choices. Do a search and you'll find many of your answers.

 

YUPYUP, im going v6 to v8 myself once i get rid of this tpi stuff!! Damn window shoppers!!!!

Its not a hard swap. Just about the hardest part will probably be the motor mount bolts.

And obviously the exhaust will need work.

 

hey brobert, thought the v6 frame is pre-drilled for v8 motor moutns? Either way, you can pick up a new set at autozone pretty cheap, and making that change should be cake w/ the engine out!!! Also, you should be able to come across a v8 700r4 tranny from a bone yard w/o any major trouble (they're everywhere) i'd highly recommend a rebuild, and if you're putting that type of cash in the motor, the transmission MUST be made to sustain it, in other words, have it filled w/ corvette internals, possibly change ur stall convertor, better boost valve, lil shift kit, and you'll have it shifting like a champ, and hopefully for a long time. but a junkyard tranny w/ a new engine = a blown up tranny, rebuild it....driveshafts are the same, think tranny mount location, might be the same, if it's different score it from a v8 donor car at a bone yard (once again they're everywhere) rear ends are the same, however you'll definately be wanting a posi-traction setup given that you'll be running a 330hp engine, good luck.

 

yeah the holes are pre drilled already, its just getting the v6 mounts off thats all.

 

Just throwin' somethin' out there, but if you ever want to run poly motor mounts, now would be the chance. I hear those motor mount mounting-bolts are a bitch to get to. http://www.energysuspension.com

 

I never thought of the poly mounts, whats the diff, besides the obvious.

 

Yes they are, if you run poly mounts expect a noiser/rougher ride, I used the stock rubber mounts.

 

would you still pass your emissions if you have a different engine in the car? , just curious, in the near future i want to beef up my firebird , its also my daily driver

 

If you keep all the emissions equipment from the old vehicle, why not? Can also use that additive I hear about. Me personally, I got a guy at the inspection station who owes me a favor. So im good to go.

 

what about my fuel pump? can i use the one in the gas tank to pump fuel to the carbs? do they make some kind of adapting kit for that?

 

You'll need a 3 port adjustable fuel pressure regulator, summit and jegs sells a mallory one for around $75. It adjusts pressure for the carb and send all the extra fuel back to the tank.

 

cool, how would you go about parts, you wouldnt say you got a 3.1 v6 ne more, would it be hard to get parts for a crate engine? , i guess its all about the engine size and not the make of the car..?

 

Finding parts is just as easy as it would be for any gm small block. Im sure some of the parts counter people at pepboys etc would be confused but thats nothing new.

 

br()bert i noticed you have a 350 tpi engine with a 700r4 trans right? i have the same trans. if i wanted to keep that trans what all engines would be able to fit it? i dont know if i will be able to spend $3k on a crate motor, i might just buy one off someone else. would 350 tpi like you have work?

 

If you have the trans with a v8 bolt pattern yes. If its a v6 bolt pattern no it wont work with a v8. The v6 trans works with all the 60* v6's (if im correct guys?) It wont work with the v8's.
When i got the motor i also got the trans with it, in fact they are still bolted together, my v6 is going to be pulled with the v6 trans still on it and the v8 with its trans will go into place.

Also you dont have to spend money on a create motor if you dont have it or dont want to, Sure it would be awesome to have a create motor but if you cant you cant. Try looking around on this site and others, People have motors for sale alot, just be aware that most of the time when someone has a 305 for sale it becomes a 350 right away! Check any motor you are thinking of buying out. I got VERY lucky with the trans/motor i got.
http://www.godragracing.com/

Is a good site to find stuff

 

my firebird is a 1987 model with a 2.8L V6 anybody know if the trans would have a V8 bolt pattern?

 

No it doenst

 

the 700r4 came in two differenct configureatoins, one was used on v8 cars, the other was used on v6 cars. they have the same name cause internally they're nearly identical, the difference is in the casing. The bellhousings are completly different from a v6 car to the v8 car. On the contrary, there is a v6 w/ a v8 bellhousing, it's the transmissions found in S10's with 4.3L v6's, those engines are 90* v6's and because of that they share their bolt patern with the v8's. Our v6's are 60* and have their own pattern, which is very common to FWD cars, and a few others.

 

Tpi stuff is sold, :hail: as soon as i get the $ from the stuff ill be oredering the afpr from summit. If all goes well i should have the v8 in withing a week or two.


Main pita now is finding a engine hoist. I need to find a place that rents them , i dont wanna buy one because id probably never use it again. And i dont have a garage so i cant do what project did.

 

yeah, the first place I did the swap I was able to borrow a cherry picker, no room at my current abode.

Justr remember to sell all teh V6 stuff you get rid of, recoupe the cost of the swap

 

thats another thing. i dont have an engine hoist or the stuff needed to do this job with really. if you have all the needed parts you can get a garage to do it right? or i could just rent an engine hoist from a tool rental store.

 

[

Justr remember to sell all teh V6 stuff you get rid of, recoupe the cost of the swap [/B][/QUOTE]

Once i get the money order from the guy buying the TPI stuff i would have all the money i spent buying the motor and trans back
cool huh?

Pyro im in the same situation, im looking for a place to rent a lift from. Im gonna call autozone tomorrow and see if they rent them

I have an offer from someone on another site that i can rent theirs for $20 but they are not exactly close by.

 

call up some heavy/equipment rental places, they usually have them available

 

another thing i was wondering about...
are the speedometers on an '87 cable-driven or are they electronic? im pretty sure they are cable driven....that wouldnt be a problem.

 

I think 87 was the VSS year for the birds and the camaro's were still cable driven.

 

As far as emissions, you need to check with a shop in your area.

Some states don't care as long as your tailpipe passes the sniff test.

Other states require some completely stupid crap:

1. Engine size must have been available in the year of your car. Say you've got a 1990 Camaro. If you want to put a 3.8 turbo v6 in it from a 1989 TTA Firebird, you won't pass emissions.

2. Engine block must not be older than your car. Say you've got a 1990 Firebird. If you're putting a 350 in that's got a casting number saying it's a 1989 block, you won't pass emissions.

3. Engine intake must not be older than your car. Say you've got a 1990 Firebird with a 350. If you change it from TPI to a 4bbl carburetor, you won't pass emissions.

#1, 2, and 3 have NOTHING to do with how the car pollutes! You could do any one of those and have the car run cleaner than stock spec, but some states won't hear it. It's completely stupid & ridiculous. Think about #2... how the hell would it matter if the 350 was made in 1989 or 1990 as far as emissions goes?!? It doesn't!!

So check with your local laws... a regular shop that does inspections might be more helpful than calling the state up.

As far as an engine hoist... it might wind up to be cheaper (or same price) to buy a hoist. If it's $15/day and you need it for a week, that's $100 that you could've bought a hoist with. If you never need the hoist again, you could probably sell it for $50 to make the cash back. But they are a pain in the butt as far as storage goes! At least an engine stand is smaller. I was able to completely unbolt mine (see http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/OTC-2012.html ), now it's just a pile of steel tubing that's leaning against my workbench.

 

Emission laws are pretty stupid.Im glad I dont have to worry about that.

Tom i see what your saying about the lift but how is a stand gonna help with the swap?


Also autozone and pepboys sells lifts for $200. I looked online to try to find somplace cheaper but seems like everyplace sells them for the same price or rape you on shipping. Anyone know of a place online that sells them?

 

Do what I do, buy one and return it when your done. Only takes 1 day to lift in and put it in the car. I do it with sears tools all the time :P.

 

what do you tell them when you return it? Im just wondering.

 

What about the speedometer? would i have to replace them in my 85 firebird?how do i find out what size the rear end is to change the gears?