I recently got a 91 Camaro RS from a friend, and so far its been problems, but first I’ll give you a little background. This is not the first thirdgen I have, I have a 1986 Firebird (well technically my dad’s, but I love it) and I ran across this through a friend and picked it up mainly for spare parts for the firebird. As I talked to the owner about it and went and looked at the car and realized it wouldn’t take that much work to fix her up and drive it. The body overall is in relatively good shape, almost no rust, the previous owner hit it with some primer where the clear started to go. It was only in two accidents; once last winter a snow plow hit it 3am in the morning and messed up the fender a little bit and bent the passenger side mirror and dented the door a bit, no major damage though. The second time his girlfriend was driving the car and decided she wanted to commit suicide and drove the car into a island, essentially a curb going 35mph and messed up the front end. It will at least take a front end rebuild which is nothing serious and I have the resources and the expertise to help me get it done so I would just have to buy the parts. The windshield is cracked, which is nothing and it may need a rim or two replaced. I threw a battery in it and it started right up with no problem after six months. I drove it a little bit on the road and even with the front end messed up it still drove great. My dad took it to a body shop and had them asses the damage and they claim it has a bent frame! I don’t see how hitting a curb could bend the frame, and the guy basically tried to snowball my dad. I found a better place to take it to that will actually look at it for free, So I towed it home to my house to park it until the next day. I tried to start it up and it turns over and fires like its going to start but then just turns over again and fires. The engine has had a history of burning a spark plug wire every now and then, but nothing has been changed since when it was running the last time. I found a set of wires that I previously had on my firebird that are know good wires and put them on the Camaro and it still doesn’t want to fire. Since it has been sitting a few months and had ¾ of a tank of gas in it I am thinking the fuel filter / fuel pump. When you turn the key you can hear the fuel pump running but that doesn’t mean its necessarily working properly. I’m relatively new to the whole car scene but I have good resources for help and so I’m still learning a lot but I figured I would run it past you guys and see if you would have any other insights as to what the problem could be. Ive been watching this website for a few weeks now and decided to join up. Heres some pictures






I know it looks stupid on the tow dolley but if I take it off its not going to be easy to get it back on with it not running....

 

I like the green rims

(not being a smartass)

 

He Stole My Car

 

Yeah I like the car a lot, especially how its got the P255/60R15's in the back and the P195/65R15 in the front, and with a v6 i can save gas millage but its still got potential. Once i get it running again, Im going to tow it to the body shop and have them evaulate the dammage and if it does indeed have a bent frame rail then I will probably just part it out. If it doesn't and its fixable and nothing serious like that then I will definitely fix it up. See I got into all of this by fixing up a 86 firebird that my grandma gave to my dad and then he "gave" it to me on the condition I would fix it up, and I fixed it up and everything now works and he turns around and is always driving it and leaves me with his 72 chevy pickup, its a nice truck but i want my thirdgen! If i can get this camaro running that would be great becuase I can get the car in my name and it will be mine, if not ill look for something else.

 

It's pretty simple to figure out.
No starts are several "things" and here's what to check.
Pull any plug wire.
Stick in a paperclip and place said plug wire at a piece of metal.
Go inside car, make sure you can see the plug wire & paperclip, well.
IF YOU SEE ANY SPARK, you have a "good" ICM.
Next is degree/intensity of spark.
The color of that seen spark MUST BE LIGHTENING BOLT WHITE!
ANY Deviation from that color & all ya need do is replace the coil.
A coil is only $30-ish and you can "wire in" to check for engine starting, very easily.
Vehicle should start then, with these two tips.
BUT YOU MAY HAVE one more problem.
I understand your "vintage vehicle" has that "VATS" stuff and an upset "VATS" system will disable starting. VATS is anti theft set up from factory.

I have very many fond memories of Maryland Women. Many smiles.

It looks like a decent ride & yep, front end work is necessary after hitting the curb. Price it out, and weigh the decision based upon purchase price of the car.

 

I hope you get it running for your sake. From the little damage I see, I dont see where the "frame" would be bent.

But if you go to part it out, I want dibs on the hood n dash if their in good shape.

 

Today I worked on it some and I found a spark plug tester that goes inbetween the connector and the plug and you adjust it to the same gap of the plug and you test for spark. I found that all of the wires at spark except one wire and replaced the wire and still nothing. I took the dstributor cap off and found some corrosion on the termnal for the corresponding wire. In fact all of them were corroded so I'm supprised it even started before. I also checked the rotor and replaced it as well. I had to stop becuase I had to goto Votech but around 2pm I will resume work hopefully if it doesn't decide to rain...

 

Your coil is dead.
Go get another coil, connect the wires from old coil, place on engine so it doesn't fall.
Go start engine.
It will.
NO need to instantly worry about the cap. IT's ok and car will start.
IF it doesn't start then it's VATS system.
IF vehicle doesn't start after using the new coil, then look deeper.
But car will start with the new coil attached to the car wiring.

 

Thats a good idea and it can't hurt, in fact that could explain why the car had a history of frying wires. Also I happend to have a new distributor cap and rotor lying around so I threw that on for good measure. When I go home I will pick up a new coil and throw that in and see what happens. The biggest problem I have while working on it is right now its parked at my dads house and he messes with it. Hes an old time "hot rodder" like back in the studibaker days and in the 40's and things have changed since then, he has some psyc problems and gets the information jumbled up and then gets funny ideas in his head and starts changing stuff. Don't get me wrong I like my dad but hes a little screwy and that makes it hard to logically work on the car. Like for example he wants to mess with the fuel injectors and tear them out and test them and check the engine for compression and who knows what else--granted that might be a good thing to test anyways but to just get it running its just making more work then what is needed.

Thanks for the advice everyone hopfully today I will get beast kicking again then its off to the body shop.

 

If hes doing comp. check thru the sparkplug hole, thats not a problem, and would be fine to do.

Now pulling out the injectors is a job, and 25bux gasket set for me. Along with new o-rings for the injectors. Some 14yo injectors I'm sure are dirty, but you have to have them sent off to get cleaned, not something a DIY person can do.

New cap, rotor, coil. Sounds like your on the right way to getting her checked.

 

Yea through the spark plug hole is the best way and ive got a compression checker that screws into the hole. But Im about to go home so ill grab that coil and throw it in and ill see what happens, afterwards ill update, unless when I get to my house its raining....

 

IF car ran before ya started touching things, it'll run again with the new coil, just clip/click wired in.
Don't bother doing much else until ya try the coil swap. No matter how dirty are injectors, compression etc, the car will start with the other coil. Run smooth is another point. But it will start.
Your Dad is VERY correct in his theorys
As I DID all that searching before I swapped on another coil and my Firebird fired right up! INSTANTLY!
Studebaker, manufacturer of Avanti, which held the production vehicle land speed record back in, I believe 1963. A Paxton supercharged 1963 R-3 version. Studebaker also paced the 1963 Indy 500, a LARK convertible, supercharged mill.

 

Well I went home and fiddled with the camaro some more. My dad hadn't messed with it any so it was pritty much how I left it. I finished installing the distributor cap and rotor and double checked all the plug wires and tried to start it and nothing. My dad then decided that the he could test the coil by doing some test in his haynes manual. The test is where you hook up certain terminals and if it has a certain amount of resistance then its ok. Personally I think that test would not really test the coil. He doesn't want to buy a new coil at all, but he found another coil that he had gotten for his 86 firebird and swaped that in and still nothing. As for the security system it did have one at one time but its been defeated, the previous owner poped out the whole in the key and wired in 3 resisters in place of it. It could possibly be related to that but it doesn't explain why it would suddenly stop running when it was running fine. Do you think I should just bite the bullet and buy a brand new coil for it, the reason I am hessitant to do so is because my dad insits it can't be the problem so I would have to buy it myself and I don't want to spend as little money as I have on something that may have a bent frame rail and end up not even seing the road again.

 

Do this test at night time.
Do the spark plug wire test again. See what is the color of the spark. Spark must be lightening bolt white to start car. A coil can be click/clip wired in, on this car. That way you can also return it if the coil presents a non start.
Yes it could be the anti theft issue, too. Why not? Previous owners do lots of strange things!
Color of spark is key to the car starting.
Coil is only $30 & I promise the front suspension issue will be much more! I recently spent $85 on just the center link, idler arm (parts). I still need alignment, too.

 

Do you still have this firebird that you pulled these parts from? Try installing either coil on it and see if it runs.

 

Thats a good idea, I will go pull the coil from the firebird and try it in the camaro. As far as the anti-theft issue is concerned all I know about it is its designed so you can only start the car with that key and no other keys so i figured when it was enabled any other key would not even let it turn over. Anyone have the anti-theft on thier car and its not disabled what does it do if you try to use another key.

 

when chip goes bad, it doesnt crank like a dead battery(actually, no crank), but you still get all the dash lights.

 

Worked on the camaro today, that thing is full of problems. Fist off the coil is giving a blue spark instead of a white one, so theres deffinitly something wrong with that, but try telling that to my dad. I don't have access to any of my own money because my mom went out of town because her aunt is dying. I checked the VATS and when you put the key in the security light comes on sometimes and then turns on. it doesn't stay on so that means its reading the proper resistance in the line so it deff shouldn't keep it from running. Now bot the locks on the camaro don't seem to work but I happend to open the pass side today and closed it and couldn't open it again! The slider for the lock inside is orange like it is unlocked but it slides freely and when you put the key in the lock it turns freely and somehow its stuck. WTF this car is possesed im beginning to beleve. I don't think I mentioned this before but right before it was giving me problems starting I had started it up and it ran for probably 20 seconds and then stalled, then i started it again and it started right up, but then cut out again and I couldn't start it ever again. Im really starting to suspect the fuel pump more that anything. Although I don't know how good a blue spark is but at least its not yellow.....

 

Coil.

 

a blue spark is normal, and just fine... it doesn't have to be a "lightning white"... it actually varies from white to light blue.

you're probably not getting fuel... how much gas have you run in it? My 88 Regal was running like crap after a 5 month stint in the driveway... I drove a tank of 91 octane with some injector cleaner in it and it stopped stalling. started right up everytime, cleaned up the idle.

I just put a fuel filter in my 92 RS (I hate gettin on the ground for a stupid filter) yesterday because it seemed to bog a little when I romped on it. It helped, but still wasn't great. Did a full oil change today and it opened RIGHT up. It feels great, way more peppy.

If you're just using it as a daily driver I wouldn't even worry about the bent frame rail if it's not noticeable to the naked eye above or below the car, replace any damaged front end parts, give it all a good run around with a grease gun and torque wrench.

if you notice some funny wear on your tires after a couple weeks then get it aligned... if it happens even faster then get it aligned QUICKLY... lol

 

I would really like to know why the previous owner felt it necessary to spray grey primer all over the car in the areas where the clear coat was coming off...

Was this an attempt at "saving" the clear coat by covering it in cheap Krylon grey semi-gloss primer... which no doubt, was probably applied without any preperation.

I get soo upset about this... that clear coat probably could have been repaired... most shops can do this for a couple hundred bucks.. what exactly did he hope to accomplish by doing this?

Damn, he could have at least used green primer...



I get soo upset when I see this stuff... unless there's significant rust, or you're ready to do the ENTIRE car.. then don't touch the paint on the outside.. there is no point. If you're not doing body work.. then don't paint a car.


I can't tell you how many times I've seen cars in the lower income areas of town where a person figured.. hey... the paint is starting to fade on my car... lets BOMB the entire car with grey primer. NOW it looks nice..

What exactly is the point of that... do they think that... sometime 10 years down the line when they actually get the money to do the paintjob... that the people in the paint shop are going to be like... "Damn, you did a really good job with those cans of spray paint primer... so good in fact that we now don't have to do any prep work and can go STRAIGHT to the final coat. Good job!!!"











Anyway, back to your point.

The car looks like a VERY salvagable car. Remember one important thing... the REAR of the car looks totally undamaged. Whatever happens, you can always replace EVERYTHING forward of the cowl.... you basically don't have to do any body work. I wouldn't repair that fender either... you're better off just trying to find one on eBay, or one of these F-body used parts dealers. You can probably even get it in the same color.

Use some gasoline or some rubbing compound to get that crappy primer off, and then have a paint shop repair the clearcoat, buff the car, and detail it. Good as new.

As for the motor... first thing that I would do (if you're planning on keeping it) is to make sure that everything with regards to tune-up items are taken care of first. Everything, plugs, wires, fuel filter, oil and filter. I'd even flush the radiator.

Once that's taken care of, I would then try to diagnose the engine problems. An engine either works, or it doesn't... if it has timing, spark, air and fuel... it will run.

I've torn apart of a few of those motors, so if you have any questions feel free to e-mail me directly.


It's been a really long time since I've owned my 82 TransAm, so I cannot say for sure.. but as far as the bent frame is concerned.. it might just be a seriously screwed up control arm... those are pretty easy to replace. If it's worse then that... you can always replace the sub frame. You can get one from a junkyard for probably 100 bucks.


By the way, I take it from the damage to the car that the girl did NOT succeed?

 

Sorry Guys I haven't been on this in a while, I’ve been really busy with school, I got an interview with a ISP for a job and got the job and started training and such so I haven't had time it mess with it.

Here is what’s happened so far, basically its at my dads house sitting in front and my dad has taken over working on it because he doesn't agree with anything I say and now he wants to tear apart the whole fuel injection system and do all this **** instead of replacing the coil. Replacing the coil and a basic tune-up, it would have no problem starting up. He did run a test on the fuel system and it does seem to be pumping gas. The plugs that were in it were fubar'ed also. Now he’s got other projects he’s working on like an 84 mustang and his truck has problems so he’s not even working on it; but when I try to work on it he drops everything hes doing to come out and harass me. It got so crazy I told him to take the car and shove it up his ***. I do have a plan, one of is friends who I’ve gotten to know well is going to help me. Im going to tow it down to his house so I can work on it there without the hassle of my dad. Then once down there I will use my own funds and fix it up. As for the front end, it needs a complete front end rebuild.

Now since I haven't worked on it I have another thirdgen an 86 firebird which I have been working on for about a year now, it was actually my grandmother’s car. She was 85 when she bought the car! But it runs great and is tagged and everything so when I need to do work I just drive elsewhere away from my dad to work on it where the Camaro is in front of his house I can’t just move it to work on it.

Also as for the security system that has been defeated properly so that is definitely not an issue.