Top Down Solutions sells a 36MM sway bar. since a v6 is so much lighter then a v8 would this be a bad idea? i was going to replace my bushings, saw the 36mm size and said WTF? i thought my 34MM sway bar was the bigest one made?

any thoughts would be helpfull.

 

bump, please need answers

 

i don't know if it'd be a bad idea but it'd make the front pretty solid. i think that'd make it want to push (not turn good) if anything. dean, am i right or wrong?

 

i think as long as you combine it with a descent rear sway bar and some wide tires front and back it cant hurt you. its just to stop bodyroll.

 

i have 215s on 15 inch rims all around (if i go any wider they scrape in turns, used to have 14s with 235s)

i was thinking it might be a V8 only aplication. i would hate for it to.. like, wear down my tires quicker or somthing.

you know what i ought to do, email lon (the owner of TDS) and ask him, since he is the one selling the product he would know.

 

He could probably help you out. Its not going to wear out your tires more, or anything; it'll just change the handling of the car more. I'd say if you had about a 24-25mm rear bar, the handling would probably be fine and you would have very little body roll. I said it might make the front of the car "push" but I was thinking about it later and I think I got it backwards, it might make the rear end "lose".

 

What else can ya spend the same money on to get any more performance?
I don't see it making a "big enough" difference.
NOT SAYING IT CANNOT (depends on how is the current set up).
If ya can't use it (you say your limitation is tire size), what good is it?
Spend it on a wheel/tire solution, my choice.
Those inner fender wells are easy enough to chop up (they're only flimsy plastic) to experiment.

 

why have i never thought of that?

the main reason i am looking to get a bigger sway bar is because i have a suspicion my current 34MM is bent. and i figured, if your droping money, get a better one.besides, it's RED

question, arent the plastic fender liners just lining the steel of the car. dont they but right up? i'll have a look before i head to work.

 

Unless ya really remove them, ya can't tell to much about them.
Believe me when I say they are flimsy & easy to procure at yards for experimenting with.
AND IT SEEMS THAT ANY model of SAME CAR (Camaro or Firebird) FITS FINE!
THAT SAID,
I've never bought a Camaro inner fender well one for my Firebird due to plenty of Firebirds ones for me to score.

 

You want balanced bars for neutral feeling in stadystate turning. Meaning you don't want either the front or the rear sliding out first, best to have a steady 4wheel drift when pressing a car too hard through a corner.

Too big of a front bar in comparison to the rear will cause the car to push or plow and not want to turn.

too big a rear bar will make the inside rear tire lift and cause the car to spin (loose)

entry and exit have everything to do with coil spring rates and shock dampers (aka: rebound and compression settings individually) You need to control rear to front weight transfer and nose dive going into a corner to get the car to turn. And visa versa, you need to mostly promote front to rear weight transfer out of a corner to get a car to hook evenly and drift out steady. Whe do not have and exit problem so generally we can get away with a larger rear bar than the V8 cars can due to less power and less nose weight rotating the inside wheel off the ground like the V8s do.

All of this cornering state has many affects that can be changed by a simple example of a shorter Tq arm "can" help you get off the corner better while with other adjustment done not hamper entry and steadystate.

Stock, our cars do not want to turn into a corner. Solid strutmounts, and better shocks will help this dramatically.

By having very good adjustable shocks, the ability to raise the rear shock rebound settings and raise the front struts compression settings will hekp reduce weight transfer forward entering a corner and get the car to turn much easier. If it turns too easy, the do the opposite.

The 36/24 factory bars that came on the V8's is actually a better setup for our lighter weight V6 cars. The rear bars actually cause the V8's to be loose around and out of the corners under power. Our V6's will balance more evenly through a corner that they do with the same 36/24 combo FOR THE MOST PART when everything else is in decent working order. In most cases this is not the circumstance because our cars are now about 20years old and hardly in perfect working order (I will arrogantly say- except for mine )

 

Ps- sorry to any that disagree, but I hate red flashing looking parts under my car. It looks touristy. Most of my car is black and hidden underneath. I don't rely on bright colors to show off any aftermarket parts, the car speaks for itself when you look under it. No red needed.

 

The later-model WS6 cars got the 36mm hollow bars from the factory; I think the earlier WS6 cars (like, 82-84ish) got a solid 34mm bar.

I wouldn't worry about the weight; how much more could it be? 10 pounds? To a 3100 pound car, that's not much.

Have you upgraded the mounting bushings and end links yet? That'll help you out in the twists, too.

If both your bars are stock, it's better to upgrade the front bar first than to upgrade the rear bar first. Like RTFC said, go too wild with the rear bar, and you might lose the back of the car unexpectedly in a quick maneuver (unless you're used to it).

GM set their cars up with a bit of understeer (car pushes/plows thru a turn) because that's how 99.9% of people expect cars to act. They don't expect the back of the car to come swinging around all of a sudden!

 

THEY SET THEM UP TO PREFER UNDERSTEER? understeer if freaking dangerous. oversteer i can cope with (hell, it's actually fun!)

also, about the bolts, i always buy bolts for a v8 w/ws6 package (since i have a 36MM bar) and i always bend them. they bent after i drive. this has led me to believe that my sway bar is bent.

i dont know if y'all remember my suspension rebuild (the one i had to do since i hit a curb) but i posted some pics of the strut tower with a scratch on it from my sway bar bolt scraping it when everything got compressed, the only component i have not replaced since then was the sway bar. (and the shocks)

i should check what rear bar i have. i dont think its 24MM

 

well, i mesured it with a cresent wrench, it is between 18.5-20.5 MM (not that acurate) it should be 24 MM if i have a 34 in the front yeah?

this means my car is even more prone to understeer

no wonder i hit all those curbs in the snow!!!!

 

Understeer is less dangerous than oversteer to a normal driver.

Think of how a soccer mom would react if her car was set up for oversteer, and she takes a tight turn, and suddenly the rear of the car swings around on her.

People expect their car to not turn all the way in a "danger" situation- as opposed to turning on a dime and flipping them around the opposite way.

And if you're hitting curbs in the snow now, be very careful if you set your car up for oversteer.

 

Do you drive your car like a maniac? The reason i ask will answer your question. I dont advocate doing this but if you have already experimented with it then you will know what to do. If and when you drive crazy into a corner which end does your car tend to lose traction. If its in the front thats push and in the back is loose...I think i got the terms right?
If your front tires are losing traction first and you are getting push then put a larger rear sway bar on your car. If your rear is going first then put a larger sway bar on the front. All things being constant this is a good way to tell. If you change tires, wheels, shocks, springs or alignment then everything could change and you would need to re look at your combo.

 

it understeers (pushes/plows)

 

I willdare to say that I would put money on any of you jumping out of your cars and into mine driving very agresively without knowing the car well enough- would certinly be very surprised how fast the *** end would spin you in a panic situation. My wife does not drive this car on the freeways so I do not worry about her danger behind the whell of this car at speed without the skill level to handle it.

The car can handle great, but you'd better know it and know what it can do before it takes you were you might not want to go. Oversteer can be fast, but also very dangerous.

 

well. i am going to agree with you. any loss of traction can be dangerous. i went out driving tonight to see if my car would understeer before oversteer. it is odd; despite the apperent mismatch in swaybars it is almost a perfect balance. it would untdersteer just a bit then the back would come out. granted i was on a wet road, i gotta try it dry sometime. also let me say, it is HARD to override my inner deffensive driver and take a corner at a speed i know will put my in the oncoming lane. even at 1am.

 

You are not even close to perfect balance. If you think you are with that description then you have much to learn.

If the car is not turning at first, you are cranking the wheel too much to get it to bite (Classic understeer). Then once the tires scrub angle sets enough to finally scrub speed and promote front bite, the massive weight transfer you are getting from rear to front is "snapping" the assend of the car out creating massive Oversteer. You aren't even close to a balanced suspension.

Swaybars are merely a TOOL to FINE TUNE the balance of a suspension. You need to drastically work on you cars weight tranfer via shock/struts, springs, chassis strength, tires, roll centers and roll axis, etc... any one of these being changed further from that point can easily again require a swaybar adjustment to balance the suspension.

You are only keeping the body from rollingby adding a heavy swaybar to the current suspension you have and are probably actually hurting your traction.However it will of course "feel" more predictable because the nose of the car is more rigid, but not balanced for performance.

 

yeah. it's a daily driver and not quite up to RFTC's standard of callibration. and when i said a "perfect ballance" i ment sway bar ballance. not total suspension ballance. i do know a little about suspension. however, clearly not as much as you seem to.

though i may get nice shocks one day the car will probably never know a new set of springs again (on new stock springs now with one coil cut off the front) and as for tires, well they are brand new and NICE for the grip on the dry road. seem to work well in rain too. never lost traction without wanting to. but they are not on there for any suspension tuning purpose. just for rolling on.

RFTC:"once the tires scrub angle sets enough to finally scrub speed and promote front bite, the massive weight transfer you are getting from rear to front is "snapping" the assend of the car out creating massive Oversteer."

that is commonly called "snap oversteer". at least by my brothers import drift crowd. and you are right RFTC that is deffinatly what was happening. i got to take the car out on DRY road today and i am not getting the snap overtsteer anymore. now i am just getting understeer. no matter how slow or fast i crank the wheel. however i do find that i get understeer more toward the miidle of the turn and more evenly and predictably if i ease into the turn as aposded to choping the wheel drasticly in the direction i want to go.

however, in the 10 or so turns i did tonight at high speed never once did the rear of the car break loose. (except for my e-brake 180* )

 

you're talking about the end link bolts,right?

 

yes. they bend. the endlink bolts

 

they come in different lengths, buy shorter ones.

 

youve probably seen this pic but here are mine

they looked the same as the ones i had to cut off with the hacksaw

 

thanks. what lenght do i want? they always just ask me what car they are for.

 

Another option might be to go to a hardware store and buy the bolts that you need. You can get grade 8 or 10 or whatever the highest grade they have. I was always thrashing the washers on mine when i went to polyurethane bushings. I just upgraded everything and its worked great. Just bring in your old bolts to compare them. If your bushings are badly worn you might even be able to upgrade to a thicker bold diameter but that is probably excessive.

 

Wasn't your car worked on at a frame shop?
If so what can they offer to your questions?

 

I have this problem below about every six months on my truck. The swaybar mounts actually tear out of the frame under extreme force. It is only because I run a very stiff suspension on a truck that takes very heavy loads. The payload weight will break the mounts when the heaviness of the truck will cause that 1 3/8" swarbar to still bend radiacally over dips and bumps going into driveways and such. One front wheel is up and the other is forced down. When the truck is empty, one wheel would almost just come off the ground instead of dropping down to the dip in the road on that side pullling into a driveway- but with a load it wll force these things to tear.

Your end links however should not be bending especially if you have a smaller bar and rubber gromets on them. You must be getting excessive wheel travel over bumps that is causing maybe that bolt head on the other side to ground out against the chassis. By-the-way, the end link bolts are in backwards. They should alway go down trough from the top. This is probably why they are bending, the excess threaded section on the top side must be hitting something. Just go to Pepboys or Autozone and by some off-the-shelf from Energy Suspension. Both stores stock them. By a set with the center spacer between the groumets being about 2-3" long and you'll be fine. But instert the bolt from the top.

 

Wow, the end links are bending?? Yikes. Hey you could tell if your bar was bent by taking it off the car and laying it on the ground by itself; both ends should touch the ground at the same time.

Stock sleeve length is 2 5/8 inch; but it depends really on the car; you want the sway bar ends to be parallel with their mounting point when the weight of the car is on the suspension.

Remember when your suspension is in the air and hanging, the sway bar end won't be parallel with the mounting point, just like in 85berlinetta's pic. What matters is when the weight of the car's on the ground.

Which reminds me, I never tweaked my end links after I lowered the car. Sounds like a good project for the weekend

 

thanks rtfc, i will flip those around. that picture above is not my car but mine are like that too.

KED85. every frame/alinement shop i take it to thinks that just because it is within alignable limits that nothing is bent. those guys watch 30min video, so the know what they are talking about

Tomp. i will remove it when i get my new greasable mounts. thanks for the tip.

 

No Do not remove it YET
Go to the yards and find another example with access to a sway bar.
Take some judgement measurements to see any bends, then compare to yours.
Perhaps because you lowered the car the end links are bearing the brunt of the problem.
The solution may be shorter end links.

 

what measure of sway bars should u use for a car that is a daily driver and 2 times a month goes to the track and drag races? i just want a nice handling car but i dont wanna sacrifice anything that will damage my drag racing

 

removing the sway bar to see if it is bent will take thirty minutes. the junkyard is a fourty minute drive. guess witch one i am going to do?

 

well i have the hollow 36mm front and 24mm soild rear bars
if you have the stock 215 tires the sway bars dont help
i dont see why haveing a wider tire rubs
being that these cars can fit 235 and 245 size
just get a lower profile tire

now upgradeing your rims and tires you wil see a very large improvement with the larger bars
i know this from experiance

when i upgraded to 16inch rims i also added the sway bars talk about a car that couldnt take a corner turning
and now it can breeze around just about any corner
also lowering your car will make it handle worse unless its done correctly

 

car is lowered for looks mostly. also i am planning on getting a set of "knight rider' style 84 15s soon. but the next time i get tires i will look into a lower profile. that is a sound idea.

 

i have seen 245 50 15s on some of the crosslace rims
and ive seen 245 50 15s on on older z28 15 inch rims

so i know wider tires fit
you just need lower profile

for example 245-50-16 fit on my front rims with out rubbing
as dose 235-55-16 but when i was in a bind i put 225-60-16 on
and all they do is rub all the time
so i removed them and put my stock 215-65-15s on the front

pick your tire size wisely
profile of the tires is all important on these cars
65 series is the largest on 15" rims
55 series is the largest on 16"rims

i know this is true on front rims atlest
but not on the rear
i know you can put 17s with a 45 profile