With the following mods, would this 3.1 V6 be a 305 TBI/TPI/Monte SS killer?

91 Firebird with Automatic Transmission:

Transgo Shift Kit
Dynomax Catback
Dynomax High Flow Cat
Accel Cap/Rotor/Coil/8.8MM Wires
K&N Cold Air Intake
3.42 Gears with LSD

Maybe also the addition of Headers and Intake Manifold/TB once they become for sale and smog legal.

 

yea, id add a turbo to that setup, then u can beat that v8

 

well now i have raced a 305 bird stock., as am i
with a 3.1 91r/s i took him off the line and was gone he has less then 100k as do i motor wise anyway.,.,.,.,i was so proud when i took him.,,..,so yea i would say depending on the condition of the 305 if its stock or not.,,. you could eatum fer lunch,.

although we did not have enough room to see about top end speed.,,.so ...

but im auto and so was he,.,not sure if he has the same trans as me though!!

I dont know about the 3.4's [i bet there way faster ] but i can only imagin., i mean my 3.1 has lotsa ***** on the frwway she can realy get going on the kick down.,,.if im passing some one or just hittin the express lane and roostin.,.,and especialy from a stop light im compition dude lol any way thats my two cents

 

Not buying it. No thirdgen with a V8 had less power than a V6 stock for stock, not even the lowly 82 LG4. Plus they have plenty more torque than the V6.

I'm calling unless you have mods or it was another V6.

 

With all due respect V Slayer the only V8 you will kill with that will be a sickly TBI. Running on seven cylinders my 88 TPI'd 305 with 3.08 gears still ran a 16 flat, and stock 3.1's will run a high 16 low 17. Those bolt ons are worth a half a second at best.

I know you are hoping for things but post after post you ask "what if I did this" and "could I try that" and the bottom line is all the pulleys and cold air intakes in the world and iginition boxes etc. are not going to gain you they horsepower you are hoping for.

The fast V6 guys here have done lots of internal engine work- Alan's milled down 2.8 pistons in his 3.1 as well as hours of home porting on the heads with tricks learned from years of racing go karts to get the compression up and the air flow, as well as a high stall converter and gear swap.

Others have swapped in 3.4's and done bolt ons.

Doward's spent money on forced induction.

Drew (not around here much) has tossed a hail-mary nitrous shot on.

I am not a V6 hater by ANY means, I own one that's got over 200 thousand on it and is driven hard lately- but I am realistic about what it is and what I can get from it. That is why I am digging out the dough to go turbo on it.

There is nothing wrong with you wanting to do pulleys, etc to your engine but you are getting your hopes up a bit high as to the results.

 

Oh, and a Monte SS in stock form ( the old RWD 80's model) was a bit of a dog- I recall they did low 16's real high 15's back in the day with the 305HO engine. Way too much steet and too little engine.

 

I've done about all the bolt ons you can to a 3.4, and I'm still not beating any v8's unless they are out of tune and dont know how to drive.


And yes, the 305ho mcss were a bit of a dog. However, when your 16 and its the first car your parents let you drive while they arnt around, its still a blast

 

my old 92 5 speed with mods would take 305 TBI's/carbs all the time... they were all mostly stock, and auto's from what I can recall. If I was auto, forget it... that is what saved my ***.

 

You need a stick to even get a fair shake.
NO slush box is gonna do it.

 

well my buddy the one i was racin! he has the carberated 305!!!
And my 3.1 is fuel injected.,.,i wonder if that had somthing to do with beating him? i drove his car and he drove my back to the house,..,and he noticed that my 91 had better throttle response then his 305.,as did i notice his was like driving a lincolin or a caddy,..,.,

who the @#$@# called bull chit on me,.., whats up with ya bro?? im not bullchittin one bit its just how i said it was.,., i dont appritiate you callin me out a lire, dude! so next time just keep it to yer self matter of fact id like to ask you to keep the f@#@ outa my post alright can you do that ???huh? can ya.?

ya maby he has prob's with his engin or the carb couldnot keep up either way you coulda came at me a whole lot differant!!BOTTOM LINE______________________.

 

I've walked 305 TBI's at the track 2-3 times. He ran a 17.4 and I ran a 17.14(or something like that, don't have slip in front of me). He was an auto as well.

 

Aggp18, when you are comparing 13+ year old cars in various states of tune anything is possible, I believe that you beat your friend. I also believe with some tuning he'd have turned the tables.

There was a big pissing contest on this board last winter over this that got over to the TBI board and ended up with some people getting "warned" by the mods.

Yes a well tuned 3.1 with bolt ons will hand many a carbed 305 car, especially an 82-84 LG4, their backside as well as giving many a TBI'd 305 a fair shake. In fact, AIM91RS has a 3.1 that would take my TPI305 by a couple tenths in the quarter. But AIM's 3.1 is a lot warmer than what V8 Slayer has.

BUT the original poster asked if his bolt on 3.1 without even headers would be a "TPI" killer and I assured him that it will not "KILL" any TPI's unless they are sick, and tried to give him the advice of a 38 year old guy who has played with everything that had an engine since I was twelve, owns both a 3.1 car and a 305TPI car, and has a pretty good idea of where NOT to waste money. And believing some pulleys, a TB bypass, cold air intake etc etc is going to give him 50 horses is unrealistic.

We can sit here and bench race this tired topic to death but all that will result is a bunch of posts about how I beat so and so's (TBI, TPI, etc) that really belong on the thoretical and street racing board.

 

Just throwing in my 2 cents. I don't know what his tuning condition was. If you're expecting miracles out of this engine without some major internals and/or forced induction, Nitrous, it just isn't gonna happen. I'm just responding to a previous post that said beating V8's with our 3.1/2.8 isn't gonna happen. Yes tuning and driver experience does play a large role, but, a win is a win. Please note that I am speaking strictly on TBI, not TPI.

 

The bottom line is this: if both your cars were stock, and they were both in good tune, you would have lost severely. The only reason you won is probably because your buddy's car is a peice.

Bring your fuel injected 3.1 down here and race my carb'd 305. My car is stock and I'll still own ya.

 

take the attitude elsewhere...
and also reported as such.

 

Severely? You've gotta be kidding me right? What kind of times do run with your superior stock carbed 305. You have of course run the car before, and now know that you are deep into the 15's. Because I condsider severly beating somebody is at least 1.5-2.0 seconds. And just FYI, he was not my buddy, he was just another guy at the track trying to find out what kind of times his 305 was running. And wasn't he dissappointed. I guess all that prep time he talked about was for naught. I'd love to see your slips. Most 305 guys run low 16's to high 15's with a good tune. Do some research on your car before you post assanine remarks.

 

Bottom line is you could beat your friend in a 305TBI but you will never beat them all. to be a true TPI killer you need NOS or boost to take on random cars. But even then allot comes down to the driver and car condition.


If your buddy can't drive you could take him in a Lambo.
But that will never make you a Lambo killer.

 

Again, I agree. But, you CAN do it. As I said before, these engines need MAJOR work before they'll be able to hang with any decent running TPI, but TBI's take less work. I just don't appreciate some of these guys coming onto this board and completely bashing the V6.

 

yea im with ya aggp18 i dont like to hear the negative stuff.... keeping positive helps with motivation for me any way.,., motivation to build up., save up.,.,modify.,., and thats what its all about., [for me any way]

im fully aware of the stock horse power that these cars have [v6's] and thats why i have v6's i want to own as many as i can.. im realy into these cars as a hobby and as an entusiest [i know prob dint spell it right]., but its still all Camaro to me,.

I am lookin into buying a [v8 it a sure thing] perferably a 5.7liter
i realy like that motor alot., not sure if it tbi.,,.or.,tpi,.,.or what its gonna be called.,.,but thats what im doing learnin,lol. and coming here on this 3rd gen forum will teach me alot.,,. and i know there is so much to learn.,.,



"my wife gets scared when i say , Im going shoppin at auto zone"
I could spend hours there lookin for stuff to add to my 3rd gen.,,. its just to bad i cant get leagl headers here in cali

 

Yes, you are right. Severely is not the word I should have used. I don't have any slips for my car sadly... every time I have a chance to go to my local track (Holt, FL--1/8th mile) it seems like T&T gets cancelled because of rain. I'm going to try to get some times this Friday... hopefully the weather will hold out long enough to at least get one run in.

I am not sure what you are talking about as far as "he was not my buddy" thing. My posts were directed at gottfuel the entire time.

Anyway, I wasn't trying to disrespect anyone, and I certainly wasn't getting an attitude. I was just trying to explain that under any normal circumstances, any stock V6 that came in these cars will not take any stock V8 that came in them. Sorry, but it's the truth. When you start adding mods to either platform, the story definately changes, but stock for stock the V6 will lose.

It just annoys me when people post stuff like "Yeah, my 3.1 hangs with any carb'd or TBI 305 out there, it's stock." It's just not going to happen unless something is out of wack with the V8.

gottfuel, I think you need to just chill out man. I know something gets "lost in translation" over the internet, but I wasn't trying to be rude or anything. The only reason I called BS on you was because you didn't clarify that your pal's V8 was out of tune in your first post which I quote:

 

BTW, you reported me for having an "attitude," yet I guess you think it's ok for your fellow V6'er to say "who the @#$@# called bull chit on me" and "keep the f@#@ outa my post". If anyone is getting an attitude, it's him.

Ok, I'm done with this thread... not going to post again.

 

Your the one that instigated that remark. Period.
So yes, your the one that came in here with an attitude and provoked the situation. So yes, I had every reason to report it as such. Don't like it? stay outta the V6 boards.

Now that being said...
As I said before, I had a 92 3.1 and a 5 speed. It had a little work done to it, maybe 1K in parts at the most. And that is including cost for tools.
I took money from 305 Carb's and TBI's AT THE TRACK all the time.
I do not care if they were "in tune", "falling apart" or "had a shnity driver". The fact remains that I beat them. Period. I do not take excuses. I perfer people that will nut up and accept facts. Did I beat all of them? no. But I did beat 90% of them.

 

all I want to add to the current arguement is all he did was say he didn't belive it. that shouldn't require a grown up response of swearing and telling the dude to get out of his post.
and you telling him that if he doesn't like it to leave? who are you to judge weather or not he should be here? as far as I knew mod or admin chose who had a right to be where on the board if at all.

he called bull as in he didn't believe it. and with the limited information I'm sorry but I would call the same. good tune on a V6 vs a V8 v8 should win.

but stuff happens


btw v6sucker I would like to tell you my rx7 which has run mostly 16's at the track has beat a ls1 vette.

 

now to get the real point of my post. as far as the original thread starter most of his mods aren't even really mods.
the rear end gears sure they will prolly help. but being it is an auto chances are he is still going to be slower then a 5spd v6 with just that mod alone

K&N cold air? are we talking a true cold air with the filter outside of the engine bay or surrounded by a box with an air feed from outside the engine bay? or are we tlaking about just a K&N filter that is put on the end of the TB? if the second one is the case I Doubt he gained much. the difference between air filters is very negligable all by itself. more difference would be had because he got rid of the stock ducting and airbox setup then the filter itself made and even then the difference wouldn't be that much


cap/rotor/coil/wires prolly isn't going to do a whole lot either if the stock setup was doing alright.
the difference in cap shoudl help with things like a busted cap, or if you are getting flash over but not much in performance.rotor same thing not going to do a whole lot unless the stock was going out. the coil? ok so the ignition might be able to give more voltage to the plugs. again that doesn't do a whole lot on a very mild (read basicly stock) car where the cylinder pressure isn't that high nor running that high of rpms and with an already decent EFI and stock spark setup. wires fall under the same boat. great if you have something wrong but going stock isn't going to help you much. now if you had more going this might be good but at least it paves the way.

high flow cat and catback. some mods that actually would prolly help out. we all know how they should be of some assistance already so I'm not going into detail. will say though that they wouldn't add that much. good start and easily make it sound better.

and the shift kit? ok so you get a little faster shift. still don't see this being a massive mod either but is at least a start.



and v8 eater don't get me wrong I'm not trying to rain on your parade. we all have to start somewhere and I give you congrats for doing some work and getting this v6 going. but don't get your hopes up on being able to beat a tpi unless the car doesn't run right. as far as a tbi I would say the same for the most part.

either way I wish you the best of luck man. and do some more to that car. pleanty of cheap tricks around here to gain a little more oomph to get that thing rolling