Finally got some data log files. If you know anything about reviewing these files, please do and let me know if any sensor is outta wack besides my o2 reading rich.

I am praying I just have bad gas.

http://www.daleimages.net/images/12-7-05-t1.adl
http://www.daleimages.net/images/12-7-05-t2.adl

First one, somewhere my check engine light came on, and I knocked the cables out from under the dash(dunno when).

Second one, check engine light came on, cables stayed in.

 

Dale, I looked at these files and found that they are binary. I am thinking that I need to play them back through TunerPro? If so, do you have a link to the definition file that you are using?

Otherwise, can you post a tabular text file?

RBob.

 

Might want to replace that theoretically bad gas before trying to datalog the problem out... honestly I don't see anything besides it running rich though.

 

And here are the datalogs in CSV format... for the rest of us

http://members.***.net/techsmurf/12-7-05-t1.csv
http://members.***.net/techsmurf/12-7-05-t2.csv


I must admit I'm not particularly happy with the data stream definition. Things like MALF flags would have been *REALLY* nice if the SES has been toggling.

 

http://www.daleimages.net/images/1227730_V6_90-92.ads

As for the bad gas, I am not 100% sure of that, and thus the reason for me going thru the effort to find a laptop, my cable, and dl the program and all files.

The ses light is 99.9% sure my egr kicking on because I dont have one. Guess I should have said that.

What are MALF flags, what do I need to do so you can view that?

 

The MALF flags are the diagnostic errors, such as when the SES lights up. You should do the paper clip on A & B and key-on. The SES will blink out the malfunctions.

Good possibility code 45 will come up: O2 rich.

I looked at the logs. Wanted to change the .ads a little but I don't have the RT version of TP installed. I'll do that later.

In the logs the O2 is definitely showing rich. When it does manage to go closed loop the INT and BLM drop to the low 100 range (102, 105). The coolant barely gets to 165°F, the first log shows 154°F and never goes into learn mode. Need a thermostat that gets the engine temperature higher. This is part of the reason it is running rich.

As for injectors, they should be around 17 #/hr. This is to match the engine displacement ratio between the 3.1l and 3.4l: 15.5 #/hr * (3.4 / 3.1) = 17 #hr.

If you go larger then that the bin will need to be tweaked.

RBob.

 

SES light is my egr. Not the 02 reading rich.

I do have 17lb injectors in the car at the moment/readings.

Engine temp, I have a 185t-stat, and while recording it was below freezing that night. I didnt drive the car but a few miles because I didnt want to get stuck somewhere and have to walk home. So while its cold out, I need to block the rad off some?

 

Ok, I'm out gutting the inside and letting the car idle to kill the gas thats in it. Car keeps dying.

Before I started I got codes 12,32

now its giving me 12,32,33,45.

12 I know it
32 I know it
45 I know it

33. I'm trying to find ckt470 to probe and check my voltage. Where is this?

 

Code 33 is MAP Sensor High. The signal is the center pin on the sensor. Double check that the vacuum line to it is OK. No splits, cranks, or a loose fitting.

When the car dies, is it shutting off clean? Or chugging, then dying? IIRC you checked the plugs and they were sooty, correct? Just making sure that it is excess fuel, not a bad O2 reporting a rich mixture, which would lean it out causing the engine to die.

You mentioned 17 #/hr injectors, what are they from? And what manufactuer.

RBob.

 

Ok, I went n got a new map after checking the lines and ports, and half the Helms manual on the electronics side.

Didnt fix it.

Finally ran it out of gas, new gas in and seems to be running ALOT better. Not going to say "that was it" tell I do few more things to it and actually drive it around.

When it was dying, it would chug n sputter and irratic idle. I had changed the plugs when all this started. Tommorow I am going to pull them out and clean them up. Install new fuel filter as well.


17lb GM injectors from someone who did a TBI 3.4 swap.

Will a 2bar or 3bar map sensor work on an n/a engine just fine w/o reprograming the ecm? Like maybe planning for the future or using a 2bar off another gm ride (like a gtp).

 

The MAP has to be a 1 bar, same as the original. As for the future I've been able to get 2 bar MAPs from a variety of cars: turbo sunbird, grand am, pentastar mini vans. . .

Only place that GM used a 3 bar is the '89 TTA (that I know of).

I'm not too keen on GM Multec's, let's hope the new fuel does the trick. Makes one wonder what they had in those tanks.

RBob.

 

SU129 @ Autozone! Wells 2 bar MAP sensor, working great over here...

I thought the '89 TTA was still MAF based? That's what AZ is showing, anyway... no MAP req'd.

Dale, I'm gonna go over your datalog here in just a second

 

Boost gauge, gets 'em every time

The engine does use a MAF along with the SFI '148 ECM.

Dale, with the way the engine dies during idle, that may be causing the MAP high error. What the ECM sees is a high MAP and a low TPS, so it thinks the MAP sensor is bad.

RBob.

 

Yep.. the TTA uses a 3-bar map sensor for the boost gauge... what a waste, eh?

 

Ok, so I would have to reprogram the ecm to accept a 2 or 3 bar.

New gas did NOT fix it, problem still exist. I did not get a chance to clean the plugs or install new fuel filter today.

All sensors on my data logs checked ok correct? Other then it reading rich (duh). sensors include TPS, IAC, MAP, Knock, o2... what else?

My friend noticed my tach bouncing all over the place. I belive the tach runs off the coil correct? Coil is new. But how would the coil know what the rpms of the car are? Pickup coil checked ok. ICM checked ok. So could a bad tach feed "noise" back into the ignition system causing problems? If so, any easy way to disconnect the tach to test this?

Man this is starting to annoy me.

 

The tach just reads the pulses sent to th coil.

 

A bouncing tach is typically a sign of something wrong in the ignition system. Arcing wire, bad cap or rotor, etc.

To disconnect the tach there is a white wire with a spade lug connection. Go to the coil and note that one of the connectors has a heavy pink wire to it. The white wire that is paired with it is the tach lead (the other connector has the wires going to the distributor).

Someplace along that white wire, usually within a foot or so of the coil is the connector. Just unplug it.

One thing to do is to pull a spark plug or two. This is to make sure that the engine really is running rich, and not lean. The reason I say this is that a silicone poisoned O2 sensor will report rich. This drives the INT & BLM down and the engine starves for fuel and dies.

If the plug(s) is showing rich, there isn't too many places the excess fuel can be coming from.

RBob.

 

Alright folks, heres my plugs. "plugs dont lie". This is after 1 tank of gas. Full to bone dry.

plugx is actually what cylinder they came out of, I did keep them in order.

May give a 56k warning, big files, but not huge.

http://www.daleimages.net/images/plug1.jpg
http://www.daleimages.net/images/plug2.jpg
http://www.daleimages.net/images/plug3.jpg
http://www.daleimages.net/images/plug4.jpg
http://www.daleimages.net/images/plug5.jpg
http://www.daleimages.net/images/plug6.jpg

 

the map thing is why i asked you about the voltage with the engine off... making a guesstimate on "key on, engine off" voltage at the map...i figure the computer see about a 120kpa reading from the map sensor (when you were idling, part of the time)...not a good thing! i would "T" into a vacuum line and check your vacuum pressure.

 

Vac I recall being around 18. I tapped into it this weekend while I was waiting on it to run out of gas.

I also replaced the map sensor this weekend. I drove it tonight after cleaning plugs and its still running like ***.

 

To be honest, I wouldn't put those plugs back in the engine. The entire insulator should be bone white. I wonder if that last tank was diesel. I think that has been mentioned.

At this point you have fresh gas in the tank. Put a new set of plugs in and drive it a little. Between how it drives and what the plugs then look like, go from there.

RBob.

 

Tach wire disconnected, no effect.

Key on, engine off
This is my new map
Voltage to map, 4.85
Voltage from map, 4.60

Car will hardly stay running at idle anymore, so its actually getting worse.


:edit: I called it maf rather then map, OPS