V6 Discussion and questions about the base carbureted or MPFI V6's and the rare SFI Turbo V6.

Carbon Plugs 3.1 v6

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Old Oct 17, 2006 | 08:50 AM
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camaro91-3.1's Avatar
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Carbon Plugs 3.1 v6

First let me start by telling you what has been replaced and why.

The car was hesitaing and missing during all ranges.
New: Coil, I.C.M, O2, Wires, Cap, Rotor, Reman ECM and prom out of identical car, Plugs (4 different sets in the last 2 months)

Car runs fine when new plugs are first put in starts excellent and runs smooth.

After running for approx 20 minutes its starts to hesitate, then miss, then shut off,
All plugs are being equally fouled.
Black carbon (No oil, or fuel appears on the tip just dry carbon)

Garage checked fuel pressure and they indicated to me that it was fine.

Any suggestion ??
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Old Oct 17, 2006 | 09:13 AM
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From: lakewood colorado
Car: 84-92 firebirds
Engine: 2.8/3.1
Transmission: auto
Car is running rich. Are you sure it's going into closed loop?
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Old Oct 17, 2006 | 10:20 AM
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I am not sure and unfortunately the Engine light bulb is burned out and I have no means of testing. Also I checked the timing and it is ok. I am thinging of changing the M.A.P next

Does the engine light come on when you first turn the key, because I never see an engine light lit up.
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Old Oct 17, 2006 | 10:29 AM
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From: lakewood colorado
Car: 84-92 firebirds
Engine: 2.8/3.1
Transmission: auto
Yes the SES light should come on when you first turn the key (all of the warning lights should for a couple of seconds - I think it's a system test). Double check the ECM connections and if you can get a code reader, check for any stored codes at the ALDL.
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Old Oct 17, 2006 | 11:25 AM
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I had the garage pull the codes and the only one was a est code and that was because I had the single wire unplugged when we set the timing.

I have the ecm out on the floor and have tried both.

What could cause excess fuel to enter cylinders (sensors).
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Old Oct 17, 2006 | 11:31 AM
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From: lakewood colorado
Car: 84-92 firebirds
Engine: 2.8/3.1
Transmission: auto
In open loop the ECM controls the injectors to a rich condition. The sensors involved in closed loop, are intake air temp (IAT), coolant temp (CTS), MAP, and O2 (I probably forgot one or two). Check your IAT and CTS sensors first - do a search, there's a list of sensor resistance vs. temperature values posted on the boards several times. If the IAT or CTS are reading low compared to actual temps, you'll run rich.
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Old Oct 17, 2006 | 01:08 PM
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Unfortunately I do not have anything to test the readings, So I have been just replacing sensors, If you had to guess or the most comin cause of rich would what senser would you replace next ? MAP, IAT or CTS..
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Old Oct 17, 2006 | 01:23 PM
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From: Castaic, CA
Car: 1988 Camaro RS
Engine: 2.8L of Raw POWER!!!
Transmission: Stick Shift
Axle/Gears: 3.42's
Originally Posted by camaro91-3.1
Unfortunately I do not have anything to test the readings, So I have been just replacing sensors, If you had to guess or the most comin cause of rich would what senser would you replace next ? MAP, IAT or CTS..
Guessing like that is BAD. Spend the $40, go out and buy yourself a Digital Multimeter, you'll use it enough that it'll be worth it. IAT is least likely to cause you to run constantly rich. CTS and MAP are equally likely to cause that problem, but the CTS can be fooled more easily, so you might have a good CTS, but still not entering closed loop because of it.

Whast's the temp of the T-Stat that's in the car. Is it operating properly? Is it sticking open just a little? See what I mean?

Don't just replace sensors because you're guessing, it's a waste of time and money.
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Old Oct 17, 2006 | 01:29 PM
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I will go out and buy one but I am going to change the Thermostat, Because I just changed the antifreeze a couple of weeks ago, My guess is the thermostat is original and with 220km on it probable needs it.
If I fix the problem will it clean the carbon plugs or will I have to replace them.
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Old Oct 17, 2006 | 01:34 PM
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From: lakewood colorado
Car: 84-92 firebirds
Engine: 2.8/3.1
Transmission: auto
The plugs are'nt that old - take a wire brush to them and reinstall. The carbon may just wipe off.
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Old Oct 22, 2006 | 12:15 PM
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From: Elgin, IL
Car: 1997 Corvette
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Transmission: 4L60E
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Check your fuel pressure. If it bleeds pressure quickly, then you have a leak somewhere, either a bad regulator that is dumping fuel through the vacuum line, or leaky fuel injectors which aren't closing properly to let metered amounts of fuel in.

My LB9 had leaky injectors when I got it. Fixed that and my mileage and emissions went way up (and plugs looked nicer obviously).
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Old Oct 23, 2006 | 03:42 PM
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Update: I replaced the fuel filter and map sensor
so know I have new
Plugs,wires,o2,map,fuel filter,coil,icm,and spare ecm. It ran fine for a little bitat idol but was still missing under load. I started it today and it run ruff and then fired a white mist out of the throttle body bypass and then shut off, I restarted it and it ran for a couple of seconds and did the same thing with the mist. Know it will not start just cranks and pops once every cycle.
I am about ready to scrap it... frustrated

I know nothin about fuel, I could only think that spark is good with all th items that have been replaced. What is simple ways of testing fuel or injectors.

I have not pulled the plugs but my guess is they are all carboned up again and if I put new ones in it would start again

Last edited by camaro91-3.1; Oct 23, 2006 at 03:47 PM.
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