Ok as a result of my other problem with my timing set part numbers. It raises the question of whether there is a lot of difference between the Camaro 3.1L and the 3.1L used in other models like the Beretta, Cavalier, etc, etc.. Since the timing gear is listed for the Camaro Only versus the other models, that implies a difference in the engines. Can anybody explain the differences if there are any other than the timing set??? If so, how do you tell the difference between the engines?? This was a crate rebuild from GM and not the original engine. Thinking maybe I got screwed over with it... I'll never buy another crate rebuild with what I have seen since I opened this one up....

 

Some of the later FWD 3.1's had roller cam previsions, and holes for crank and cam sensors.

A fwd block will have starter holes on the other side(or both)

Internal, the pistons are different, oil pump may be different.

Timing chain is different because of timing cover. However, I have seen fwd cars put a double roller on, so there should be no need for different chains.

 

Here's the skinny:

The F-body and other RWD vehciles all use what is called a "generation I" 660, The 1987 to (most) '93 and (a few) '94 FWD vehicles used what is called a "generation II" 660. The MAIN difference is the top end. The genII uses aliminium heads, which is teh easiest way to tell the difference.

There are a LOT of differences in blocks. The starter provision is ONLY on what would be the driver side of a RWD vehcile, no FWD block was ever drilled for both leaft and right side starters.

The engine mount bosses are different locations between the two generations. You can however bolt a RWD mount onto the right (passeneger) side of the bloc, it will only be held on by two bolts however due to the position differences.

the left (driver) side will need a custom mount.

The intake can be turned 180* but as it comes out the vehicle it has teh TB over the bellhousing of the tranny.

The GenII uses a narrower timing chanin and also a narrower front cover. Yes guys have put double rollers in, but have had to machine the front cover to do so.

there are other differences, but these are the magor ones, externally anyway.

 

Hmmmm, this sounds like a hybrid... It has steel heads but the narrower chain and gears.. I noticed (only because it looked weird) that the passenger side motor mount only uses the top two bolts and the bottom two are missing (no place for them in the cross member that I can see)... Will check the starter holes tonight... Any idea on part numbers for the narrow or wide timing chain cover... That probably is my biggest issue... Too narrow and I would have to use the narrow gears and chain (would like to stay with the heavier)... So, if I replace the cover, have to make sure I get the wider one (or at least see if the one I have is narrow or wide)... The starter is on the passenger side... The intake has an arrow on it that pointed toward the front (don't know it that is just a coincidence though)....

 

Some RWD 660s used the narrower timing chain, probably a cost cutting deal. Less parts to carry = less overhead = more profit.

The passenger side starter is definiatly longitudily mounted RWD block.

I don't understand the correlation to the crossmember and the block though. From what I have seen, walking through the wreckers there is sometimes only some bolts used, not all, when mounts are attached to the vehicle side.

 

What I meant on the starter holes, is if it was orginally a fwd, and converted to a RWD setup, it would have both sets of holes.

I did not know that about the motor mount holes.


Timing cover, if your using a rwd cover, then you should beable to put the thicker set in it. I dont know if a fwd cover will work on a rwd application.

If you need a part number, call the dealership. Mine here are quite nice about it, but they also know me by face/cars I'm working on.

 

Great suggestion.. My brain must be foggy today... Just called a local Chev dealer and he said that the correct oem part number for the cover is 10049009... Off to check out the one I have after work... New replacement is $277 but with the number I should be able to find a used one if I need to...

 

let me know if you need one, I have almost a whole 3.1 in parts laying around.

 

Ok, thanks...

 

Well, did some more checking last night... The block casting number is 10065457 (2.8L??).. Casting number for 3.1L in a 92 Camaro anybody?? The block is stamped A080113PCL.. Not sure about the L at the end.. The bore is 3 9/16 and the stroke is 3 5/16 so it sounds like a 0.060 overbore and a 3.1L stroke.. Forgot to check the starter last night and was dressed for work so couldn't crawl under it this morning... The timing cover casting number is 14090537 (GM says 10049009 for Camaro)... I mounted the thicker timing gear and it looks like 3/4 inches from timing cover block mounting surface to the face of the camshaft gear.. Add about 0.1 inch for the edge of the chain and it looks way close to the inside front of the timing cover... My guess is that it really needs the 10049009 Camaro cover so need to see if that one is deeper than the 14090537 I have...

 

I dont have much planned this weekend so I will go dig my parts out after work and see what I have.

If nothing else, I was planning on going to the j-yard sat morning, I will look there also.


sixshooter posted in another thread that there is basically no way a rwd pan will go on a fwd block. So you have either a 2.8 or 3.1 block. Then bored over.

 

I'll crawl under and check the driver's side starter area tonight... Parts dealers seem to think the 10049009 and 14090537 timing covers are interchangeable but my guess is that they could be one way interchangeable.. Going to try our local pullapart and see if I can find a 10049009 cover...

 

A little correction to that. The genIII (as I stated) will not accept a genI (RWD) pan, a genII will, though.

ALL FWD timing covers have the h2o pump off to the side, Left side to be exact, so if the h2o pump is ceneterd on the cover it's a RWD cover.

When you're measuring the thickness and cleance for the timing cover remember these points:

The timing set is rcessed below the mating surface between the block and front cover, and the gasket will add thickness as well.

AFAIK, there is only one depth of (RDW) front cover, but I have heard there are other differences between the S-series 2.8 cover and F-body 660 front cover, though I have not been able to verify this.

Also measuring bores, you REALLY need a bore gauge, by the sounds of it, you use a tape measure, which is no where near accurate enough.

 

the cover I have and was pulled off a 200k 91 3.1 engine is 14090537. It fit the thicker chain w/o problems.

 

Don't have a bore gauge so just wanted to get a rough measure. I did run a straight edge across the mounting surface of the front cover at the camshaft. The rear mounting surface of the camshaft gear sits out about 0.1 inches from the straight edge across the cover mounting surface. That's why I mounted it and then measured from the cover surface to the front side edge of the gear itself. Anyway, the good news is that your 14090537 fits the thicker gears. That helps a lot. Mine should then fit even though it looks very close.

 

Had to do a business trip so the project is on hold for two weeks...