ploegi

I don't have the info on the Ford injectors, but, someone else may chime in on that......

I HIGHLY recommend getting the cable then, since you already have the laptop. You can order them online, probably from some of the sponsors of this site...... You can also get the software from some of the sponsors of this site.... the free versions don't do all the neat tricks, but, they do enough of them to make your life a LOT easier. Being able to do datalogging, and posting it here, or even, reading thru yourself, will make your life So much easier..... You will wonder how you ever got along without it. Check the DIY Prom board for links.

Also, if you play your cards right, you may be able to get your dad to learn along with you, and introduce him to the wonderful (sucky) world of computers.....

IROCmonkey

EVE or EFE stands for early vapor or fuel evaporation. It consists of a vacuum actuated switch on one of the exhaust manifold down tubes. Most carbed cars had them, I am not sure if the MPFI cars did...someone may be able to tell for sure...if you do have one and its stuck, it would be like a banana in the tailpipe

ploegi..thanks for clearing that up about oil pressure switch...I just started back into the boards and my recall is a bit dim sometimes on the old wives tales.

crux i know this may sound dumb...but did you check your air intake? lift it off, look under the filters...is it clogged with leaves or debris or any thing?

i do think you are on the right track with fuel pressure being a problem.

another option for injectors is to pull a set from the junkyard and send them off to cruzin performance to have them cleaned, flowtested and matched its about $20 per injector plus shipping. do a search on line or on the boards on cruzin performance.

BluFBdy

iTrader: (1)

well its good that you've actually found something to follow with your injectors, if your dads really gonna be that sour about your input tell him you stopped by the guy down the street with the camaro, maybe that'll change his mind. Outside support is the best ever lol. My dad was the same way when i told him my map sensor was on its way out, he was dead set it was my cap and rotor (why i couldnt tell you) but i kinda bs-ed him and said an ase tech down the road told me and he totally went for it. Turned out i was right and he's still convinced it was the techs idea

The insurance thing might be a good idea, or put it under garaged status at the very least, then IF you really wanted too you could keep throwing parts at it, not that i support that but sometimes it comes down to it.

Keep it up, by the time you're finished you should have a new engine

fignewton

iTrader: (1)

Crux, I haven't mailed that stuff yet, It seems we always have plenty of boxes around the shop until I need one. If the UPS store is open today I will try to get it mailed out. Then you will have a set of 3.4L injectors and the rail.

Crux

Thanks for all of the replies!

I'll definitely look into that cable, then. It sounds really cool.
I read about the ford injetors and that they were 15# while the stock for my car is 13#. The 3.4l injectors are also 15#..
So if this is right..both the 2.9l Ford and 3.4l camaro use 15#?
And I can use the 3.4l on my 2.8l?

I did check the intake and I had a little dead grass and a leaf or two but I removed them. The filters were looking a little dirty though. They're K&N I wonder if I can simply hose them off and recharge them(or if I would have to)

lol thanks M_d

Thanks fignewton
I appreciate it and I'll return the shipping cost as soon as I get them ^_^

EDIT: also..a symptom that's been kinda consistant lately is that when I start it I have to give it gas or it'll kill
if I don't give it gas it takes around three times starting it and shutting it off for it to run by itself.
I'm hoping this leads back to the timing but right now I think that all of the simpler things have been ruled out.
EDIT AGAIN:
P.S. The car acts up more and more the longer I drive it..I just went to put some gas and it's at 3/4tank now I believe.
EDIT YET AGAIN:
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...10002_88326_-1
well..this seems good..
they don't really go into detail about the car model, etc..so can I assume that this'll fit?

irocz28boy

iTrader: (2)

Hey, any luck with this problem? I'm having very similar problems in my '88 IROC 305 TPI. My problem has gradually become worse. I've been trying to get it to run properly for over a year now. Changed the plugs, wires, distributor, cap, rotor, replaced and adjusted the tps and IAC, replaced EGR valve, cleaned it out even though there was no visual carbon build-up, replaced FPR and 02 sensor, removed the cat and I am currently putting in new injectors. I've already replaced the pump and filter, and it primes up every time. At this point the car starts if I have the pedal to the floor and as soon as I let off, it dies. Vacuum is good as well. Also, if I unplug the vacuum from the FPR to the plenum, it seems to run better, but still not perfect.

Crux

Nope..no real luck other than the fact that it's semi-driveable.
Ah..and now I'm a little worried for it now because of your problem O_O

Mine doesn't kill that easily. Right after I start it I have to give it a little gas after to keep it on and then it idles alright.

I was considering replacing the TPS and IAC but now I'm waiting for an ALDL cable. I can't order until Thursday.

Good luck with your problem..I hope to eventually figure this one out because while I've been searching I've found mannnyy with the same problems and no solutions like "yeah! that was the prob!"
I hope to actually help others with this lol

later

irocz28boy

iTrader: (2)

Yeah actually mine used to be like that. I mean it used to be like where I would have to push the pedal and then it would idle alright, but as soon as I started driving it, it would go to crap again. I'm looking into an ALDL cable as well and I downloaded TunerPro RT software. I hope I can do something with that. Good luck with yours.

BluFBdy

iTrader: (1)

i hate to be the pessimest(screw the spelling) but somehow i dont think timing could screw your car that bad, just make a list of possible problems, even ones people on here have suggested and then logically cross them out either as you do them or as you FULLY rule them out. As long as you fix this now your problems shouldnt get as bad as irocz28boy

Crux

Well..the next part to change is the fuel pressure regulator...

so..we'll see.

I've basically been doing that, Master_d...just not on a physical list.

..well..I'm still hoping it's nothing too serious.

A friend of mine had a corolla and it was messing up and when he took it to the mechanic he was told the engine was warped O_O ..I guess..like it melted a little..
Yeah..

Thanks again.

irocz28boy

iTrader: (2)

I've been doing that as well, but nothing ever seems to help. It just started becoming this bad right before I put my headers in, and as soon as I got it back it was still doing it so I haven't really driven it in almost 2 months. I really would like to figure this problem out and have a car again. Hopefully when I finish with the injectors everything will be good. And I'd have to agree with master_disaster. I don't think the timing could screw it up that badly. I'm sure it has something to do with the fuel so hopefully that regulator will work for you.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I realize it's been almost a month now (4 weeks, actually), but maybe this should be on the V6 forum.

Crux

You're free to move it
..won't bother me any and might get more people's attention.

Thanks

BluFBdy

iTrader: (1)

hold on, on a random note, today we went over exhaust systems in my vocational school, we got on the subject of cats and mufflers, then my teacher brought up a common problem that CAN be related to your exhaust system, the car "seems like it has no power, it will idle fine but once you give it some gas its like it has no power" instantly i thought of your situation, we tested a "bugged problem" car with a backpressure gauge but i think you can do it in an easier way by just unbolting your cat, looking it over seeing if its broken at ALL, etc, try running the car without your muffler and see if it helps. Hopefully that will work, just start by trying to run it without the muffler, if that doesnt work try it without the muffler and cat. it MAY work, if not keep trying lol.

Oh and my teacher also mentioned that when you rev the engine and it has the above condition, it sounds like a swooshing kind of noise in the pipe? dont know if that helps

Good luck

Crux

Actually we already tried something like that.
My dad was cutting off the cat to replace it with pipe and found out that the cat was already hollowed out.
He cut it towards the front first so the cat and the muffler was away from the car.
It sounded awesome but I couldn't stay in the car long because of the exhaust under the passenger side.
..and I couldn't drive it because it was so loud but my dad said that he drove it down the road that way.

He just kept the cat and repaired the cut with pipe.
We ran it a bit w/o the muffler&cat and my dad thinks that it helped but I think it was just in my dad's head lol

Swooshing noise?...nah..I don't think I heard that.

I wonder if the ALDL cable, etc. will help me solve this problem?
I'm getting it anyway but it'll be cool if it can. I don't know how much info it'll give me but I'm looking forward to it. I'm ordering it tomorrow.

Thanks for sticking with me on this problem, man.

Later.

For the hell of it..my local classifieds:
1. 1979 CAMARO STREET stock dirt track car, good shape, new engine, automatic, new seat, two new tires, Asking $2500.

2. 1982 CAMARO Z-28 Pace Car (V8) 75,000 original miles, excellent condition, Runs perfect. T-tops and automatic transmission. $6500 negotiable Call Kurt

there's also a 1997 camaro..man..I wouldn't mind the '79 or '82..
anyway lol just thought I'd post that..
let's not forget my dream car:
1979 CORVETTE, $8000 firm. Call
All corvettes, really..but the 77-79s especially.

Sorry..off-topic again.

BluFBdy

iTrader: (1)

ha no problem. If your cat has been hallowed its possible the previous owner didnt get ALL of the cat ceramic out and its in your muffler, try running w/o the muffler ONLY, if it helps then you may want to keep looking down that avenue. PLus with the muffler undolted that should still direct the gas away from the inside of the car drive it yourself and see if it helps

Crux

Car threw code 44 on the way to work today(while I was driving..didn't stall)
Oxygen Sensor (lean)
It didn't on the way home, though..

I wish I'd know if it was the oxygen sensor in the intake..or the exhaust..

fignewton

iTrader: (1)

Chart - Code 44 Oxygen Sensor Circuit, Lean Exhaust Indication
Wiring Diagram for Oxygen Sensor Circuit

CODE 44 - OXYGEN SENSOR CIRCUIT (LEAN EXHAUST INDICATED)

Circuit Description:
The Electronic Control Module (ECM) supplies a voltage of about .45 volt between terminals "D6" and "D7". (If measured with a 10 megohm digital voltmeter, this may read as low as .32 volt.) The O2 sensor varies the voltage within a range of about 1 volt if the exhaust is rich, down through about .10 volt if exhaust is lean. The sensor is like an open circuit and produces no voltage when it is below about 360 degrees C (600 degrees F). An open sensor circuit or cold sensor causes open loop operation.

Test Description: Numbers below refer to circled numbers on the diagnostic chart.

1. Code 44 is set when the O2 sensor signal voltage on CKT 412 remains below .2 volt for 6O seconds or more and the system is operating in "Closed Loop"

Diagnostic Aids:

Using the "Scan", observe the block learn values at different rpm and air flow conditions. If the conditions for Code 44 exists the block learn values will be around 150.

02 Sensor Wire may be mispositioned and contacting the exhaust manifold.

Check for intermittent ground in wire between connector and sensor.

A Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor output that causes the ECM to sense a lower than normal air flow will cause the system to go lean. Disconnect the MAF sensor and if the lean condition is gone, replace the MAF sensor or use MAF tester J-36101.

Perform injector balance test CHART C-2A.

Fuel Contamination Water, even in small amounts, near the in-tank fuel pump inlet can be delivered to the injectors. The water causes a lean exhaust and can set a Code 44.

Fuel Pressure System will be lean if pressure is too low. It may be necessary to monitor fuel pressure while driving the car at various road speeds and/or loads to confirm. See CHART A-7 "Fuel System Diagnosis"

If there is an exhaust leak, the engine can cause outside air to be pulled into the exhaust and past the sensor. Vacuum or crankcase leaks can cause a lean condition.

Air System (manual trans only) Be sure air is not being directed to the exhaust ports while in "Closed Loop". If the block learn value goes down while squeezing air hose to exhaust ports, refer to CHART C-6.

If the above are OK, it is a faulty oxygen sensor.

Crux

Thanks alot..that's really, really informative.
I'm heading to the parts store tomorrow so I'll check that all out(or try).

On a side note, I hear from the previous owner that he changed the fuel pump before, too. So..apparently I have a car that eats fuel pumps.
I'll see about an AFPR.

Thanks fignewton. I'm not exactly sure what open and closed loop means yet but I think I should just search it.

I just ordered the ALDL cable. It was $34..plus around $11 shipping *sigh* ah well.
It looks like I'll end up having to get the fuel pressure tester after all...$32 but it's a tool so it's not a waste.

Thanks again.

EDIT: The "oxygen sensor" in the air intake is the air intake temp. sensor.
Sorry about this..I'll start reading more before replying....

Crux

Time for an update.
The ALDL cable should be coming in today..*should*.
I'm pretty excited about that.

I've been driving around for a bit now and it's getting me around but it's still not completely reliable.
I can't floor it..the last time I tried doing that the car bogged down so badly it was like hitting the brakes hard.

I'll try and start scouting junkyards for that 3.4l and get some prices. Until then I started a notebook to keep notes and lists, etc.


My car is running as long as I let it speed up at it's own pace. I haven't gotten the compression gauge yet and same for the fuel pressure gauge. We got the FPR but haven't changed it yet.
I also got 5qt. of Royal purple 5w30 and an AC Delco filter as well as some compression restoring additive and we're changing the oil soon. I don't think it'll help much but it's needed. I was told that the previous owner put several different oils in the car. SAE 30, 10w30, and 5w30. ...I doubt that's good.

I haven't taken the car over 55 lately and I think it's the only reason the thing is still going.
I almost got my own V/OMeter for $20 but it would've been a waste...my dad has one, I'll use it and test that TPS finally.

I had the battery tested and the guy at Advance Auto said it's fine..so my alternator might not be in good shape. If I don't run the car for two days straight the battery goes under 12

It only threw the code for the O2 sensor once sense the last time I posted about it and it only stayed on for a little while when I was stuck waiting for a train to finish passing.

Is there any way it could be my tranny?

ETA: oh..and something you may find a little funny..
when I asked the guy at Autozone to test my battery, he came outside with a VOM meter O_O

Also..this sucks..apparently the cigarette lighter well for our cars is just a bit unique... and I'll have to get one from a junkyard if I can find one..

Well I got a price for a 3.4 from a local salvage yard.
I think it's from a '93 camaro.
$550 for whole engine w/o accessories
$50 core charge(wtf?)
and a 1year(I think it's 1yr.) warranty
What do you all think?

Kevman

This is gonna sound stupid, but take off the shielding for the fuel tank, and look at your neoprene line, if it's twisted, thats your problem.

Crux

damnit..
I can't find the right socket..this is rediculus.
I'll check it when I find it.
Apparently what I need is bigger than 1/4 and smaller than 5/16.

So..Kevman, can you tell me what this hose does?

EDIT: AWESOME! my cable came in..I have to wait 1.5hours though for my mom to bring me the serial adapter for my laptop.

enswrob

Apparently what I need is bigger than 1/4 and smaller than 5/16.

^^ its metric

Kevman

This hose goes from your fuel filter to your Fuel tank, it's a black neoprene hose. If it's twisted, it's most likely your problem. I had the same thing happen, ran for a short amount of time, and sounded like bad timing, I had to rev the **** out of it to get home. I changed the cat, plugs, wires, coil, and a bunch of other crap. Got it pressure tested, it was getting 50 PSI, then dropping to 19PSI. Mechanic (Who ripped me off BTW for a 400$ cat.) had taken off the heat shielding and shown me that the hose had been twisted 3 times, limiting fuel going through, causing it to do funky things.

BluFBdy

iTrader: (1)

could always use a virginia socket set....aka pliers lol

Crux

Haha..for the record, enswrob, I couldn't find it because I couldn't find the socket set..I would've realized it was metric..eventually

Thanks Kevman..it sounds weird that it would've twisted but I'll definitely check.

Lol master_disaster..these are kinda small it was get really annoying with pliers. Vice grips? :P

By the way..apparently the ALDL cable I got from JEGS wasn't a serial connection. It's 15pin..so..crap, now I have to get an adapter online(radioshack didn't have) and do some more waiting. Then, hope that it works afterward.
Did everyone else's ALDL cable come with the serial connection?

Thanks all...

I'm starting to have to push the pedal really far to get past 50mph..but not all the way to the floor or it'll not go. Pretty..weird.

Crux

I'm guessing these are the lines you mentioned?:
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...neoprlines.jpg
I didn't have to take the plate off but they connect to the hardlines that go to the fuel pump..and one connects to the hardline going to the fuel filter.

Now..there was one that was connected to this:
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...estionmark.jpg

Can you tell me what that is?
It's just hanging there..

BluFBdy

iTrader: (1)

its a breather valve for you gas tank, releases pressure so your tank doesnt go boom on ya

fignewton

iTrader: (1)

Hi, Crux. I haven't forgot about you it's just that my shop has to come first. I had to fire one guy and another decided to move to a different town when his girlfriend kicked him out. Go figure. So I have been tied up the last couple of weeks. The socket size you were looking for is a 9/32 or you can use a 7 mm they are both the same size. Any progress on your car? Hopefully I can get that boxed up and sent this week. That is as long as I can get to do my job (running the business) and not work on cars .

coolrimsatleast

I was just wondering after reading this thread... What ECM do you have? I have an 89 V6 with the 302 computer, and there wasn't any software at all that I could find that would work with it. I have a 3.4 with headers and whatnot, and need to tune the ECM a bit, but as far as I know I'd have to get megasquirt or something.

Anyway, as for the pressure regulator and the gas smell, have you tried priming the fuel system and pulling the hose going from the regulator to the TB? I guess if you smell or see fuel come out of the hose, then the diaphram in the regulator is bad, which would cause all sorts of problems. I didn't see anyone mention that.... unless I missed it.

To pull the regulator off (yes it can be serviced seperately from the rail, I think the 'man' is just trying to milk us for more money) you'll need the 'security' torque bit set just in case you didn't know.

I was losing fuel pressure one time and the only way to stop it was to pinch off the return hose. After trying a couple spare regulators, I finally got a rail from the junkyard and it fixed the problem. Somehow the sealing surface in the rail was bad.

Crux

Thanks, fignewton.
I'm looking forward to it.

The progress is this:
I haven't gotten the ALDL adapter. I'm stuck on whether I should send the one with 15pin female end I got from JEGS back to them and get the one for $60 where it's already serial or USB.
OR..get the adapter or try to convert it myself.
The time I'm taking to decide is making it pointless to waste time deciding.

I've been driving the car around for about a week or two. Only since maybe two days ago did the car start getting undrivable again.
Before, I couldn't floor it..
now, I have to pretty much floor it just to get up to speed
I'm leaning towards the TPS but our VOMeter has gone missing for the time being. I'm considering getting one anyway.
I'm getting really bad noise from where the catalytic converter is(remember though, it's hollowed out) and the car starts shaking when I give it enough gas to go.
Sometimes the car works fine for a little while after I start it.
Others, it's bad from the get-go.

My funds for the 2.8-3.4 swap are changing often but slowly rising, I think.
I decided to get the engine before I get the tools I'll need.
I want this thing in my hands soon...it's $550 plus tax.

Tomorrow I'm getting(probably unless I don't make it to the store) a new muffler, maybe a compression gauge, and a TPS.

I'm about to be getting another job that should pay more..so it should help alot.

--------

Coolrimsatleast:

I don't know what ECM I've got...
No one's mentioned the diaphram in the regulator..but it should be fixed once we get to changing the FPR I bought..
And..I didn't know about the torque set..I'm assuming it's different that a normal torque wrench(which we have)? I'll have to look it up, I suppose.

hmm..bad fuel rail? That's a dealer item(or junkyard)..or so I was told from the last time I called about one..
No local junkyards with 3rd gens lying around

Thanks for the help
It started stalling really bad suddenly. Parking lots are horrible..right when I get in gear it kills unless I keep my foot on the gas. It'll run alright until I make a stop and after that first stop it just goes to hell.

I really need my own tools..I'm trying to get things that I'll still use after the swap...without taking too much money out of the 3.4l fund.
And then there's the fact that I want to do a couple of performance mods on the 3.4 before I put it in. It's hard not to get overwhelmed.
I started a notebook to keep notes(of course) and I've got a list of things to buy, things that I keep from the 2.8, etc.



Thanks again

BluFBdy

iTrader: (1)

hm...a notebook is actually a good idea, i thought of doing the same thing but i can never find the time lol

Crux

Yeah..it's hard to stick to it..
but it's really good to keep a list of the parts..

Especially when it comes to putting some of the 2.8 parts on the 3.4 and whatnot.

Crux

I finally got everything I need to change the fuel pressure regulator...
but the winds are really heavy today and it's 100% chance of rain tonight..with tornado and flood warnings.

I changed my sparkplugs a couple days ago..they were fouled and it looked like there was fuel on them..it wasn't oil.

It's still shutting down when I put it in gear.

I hear a loud pop from the exhaust when I give it too much gas when revving it up.

I can hear a knock in the engine, too...
The timing is as good as it's going to get..I should be getting a new timing chain kit soon. ( chain, gears, and gasket)
I plan on testing the ohms for the fuel injectors when I take the plenum off for the FPR. If the injectors are bad, then I'll either try the 3.4l ones in it when they come in the mail...or my car's gonna be broken down until I get the new engine..and after I rebuild the new engine...

I got my new muffler, but I'll need an adapter or two and an extension pipe. The new muffler is a little shorter than the original...

Anyway. I haven't sent the ALDL cable back yet..I'm thinking about just finding an adapter online. I'm worried there isn't the right software for it..
should be, though.

I'm unemployed right now, so the money I had set aside for the engine is going to be used for insurance soon.
I did, however, find out that my friend's dad is a mechanic and he may be able to help me find a cheaper 3.4l.

I have an IROC(or IROC-Z) hood that I'll probably try to sell soon. It's an odd, metallic brown fibreglass hood with the black louvres. It's peeling, too.
There's also this hideous rear spoiler I'll try to sell...

These are the only real updates..

Thanks all.

91RedRagtop

Don't tell me !!!!!!!!! Another one that doesn't come to a conclusion . Ever get this car running properly ??????

Crux

I ultimately just went for the 2.8-3.4 swap..but I DEFINITELY know what you mean about the no conclusion.

Someone with the same symptoms told me their fix was new fuel injectors...
and seeing as I had rusty gas come out of my fuel rail when I took it out..it just might've been that.(so I see a new gas tank in the near future, too)

91RedRagtop

So your car ran fine when you swapped in a 3.4 ?? Or have you finished it yet ?

Crux

I'm in the middle of the swap.
I'm keeping logs in the V6 forum, though.
Today I'm going back home to finish disconnecting the engine, actually.
I get the new block next weekend...and then I'll be buying parts as I can.

IF it doesn't run after, then I'll hopefully have ruled out alot of things.