IM GETTING AN 87 FIREBIRD
with an 2.8l

i love the look of the cars and heard the v6 gets great gas mileage(used to driving olds 403 and chevy 350) but anyway...

i want to get the most out of my motor dont really wanna change it cuz of mpg reasons

but im also a speed demon so with that being said
i wanna get my v6 to be able to dust my dads 2000 something charger
and still keep my mpg.


imma diy type guy
SEARCH WONT HELP ME CUZ I DONT KNOW WHAT YOU GUYS ARE TALKIN BOUT HA cuz im car dumb dont know much bout engines willing to learn



so what will get my fast....fast
cheapest on up


HELPP THANKSS

 

depending on skills and smog restrictions you could build a turbo kit and tune the engine to that with injectors, or do a head swap with newer 60 degree heads or the cheap quick way with nitrous but i would recommend forged pistons and there are sticky's at the top that explain the two ways in detail. For practice you could port and polish the intake manifold.
and whats the stat's of your dads charger if its r/t package or better a turbo is really needed to be faster, dont worry others will chime in with more suggestions.
good luck and have fun with the build.

Rey

 

if youre looking for fast and cheap......... not gonna happen. if you wanna go fast, youre gonna have to spend money, just the way it goes. and if youre looking to smoke his charger, is it a v6 or v8 charger? HUGE difference. Yes, please still use the search, you can get an idea of what are easy things to do, then research how to do them from there. No one ever wants to search because it takes too much time, all the info is already out there on all these questions, you just have to take the time to find it.

 

im sorry he has the v6 model. but he's gonna get the chips and most of the upgrades, while he makes payments on it. then get the daytona.
but i have searched but i dont know wat to search really.
and every search i have found your telling guys to search haha.
but if i add nos i see that adds hp but do i have to use it everytime i wanna go fast.
or does it make you go fast then even faster if you hit it.
and i searched turbo how to. and thats like a 1000 dollar project to do if YOU DO have the tools and i dont.
but i have found like the 1.50 radioshack mod

is there any other mods like that i need to search or what.

 

Thats to all the people that think that posting "search" but offering no help what so ever helps in the long run I always try to help a little and throw the search in at the end.

Thats exactly how it works. Nitrous is only good for a quick burst of speed.

To make any real HP with these engines youre going to have to get into the engine. Intake, headers, high-flow cat, and a cat-back will help. But depending on which V6 he has (2.7L or 3.5L) those might not be enough. You might be able to stay with the 2.7...but the 3.5 will be gone.

Junk...wont give you any noticeable HP.

 

ok so first i been searching my *** off

found out what a cat is...
i dont really like most exhaust on the v6, sound like tuner cars

if i get an exhaust i want it to sound like a v8 with heat under the hood

so my first mod will be

c.a.i
then the radio shack mod

these are mods i can easily get and afford

slowly but surely i will move up in the world
but i neeeed your help so i know which way to move



and this a everyday car
any dead weight i can take out
or chips i can get
i need all your help
and dumb it down for me
pics work great

 

youve already got a cold air intake, dont change out what you have. just take the air filter box out, cut the bottoms off and reinstall it to open up airflow, do that mod instead of a cai.

dynomax has a really good catback exhaust for a great price. it sounds great at idle and lower rpms, not too bad at higher rpms. best bang for the buck.

dont get any of the chips, theyre a waste of money.

 

ok, you said your car dumb... here is my honest recommendation...

first off, don't waste your money with the "radio shack" mod... YOU WILL BE WASTING TIME AND MONEY YOU COULD BE USING ON THE AIR BOX...
which cone air filters breathe far better than air boxes and cost anywhere from 25-50 bucks and make a world of difference...

the dynamax cat back that drdave speaks of sounds great at idle... really does, it gets confused for a v8 at idle, not when you step on it... but it doesn't sound like a ***** honda either... it maintains the respect of the car and costs 150 or so...

go to your local auto parts store and buy yourself an 82-92 camaro/firebird repair manual. They are 10-15 bucks and will help you not mess up what your trying to make better... read it while your on the can, 20 minutes will make you not so car dumb...

then you can start modyfying with a basic understanding of how the car works and what you'll need to do to make it work better... engine, transmission, brakes, suspension... these things are what make a sports car a sports car...

after you brush up on the repair manual (which has a dictionary of car terms) then you can understand what 91rss was talking about at the top of the page... untill then your not gonna get anywhere with engine modification...

welcome to thirdgen.org

 

ok so i want me to forget the chips and radioshack mod


and cut the bottom of the air boxes out or get new cones?

and wat about a throttle body spacer
or those anygood
can i make my own?

which dynomax muffler sounds the best

 

well there is only one air filter, which is at the end of the tubing that starts at your throttle body and runs behind your headlamp... there's a box there now... you can buy a high flow filter, or a cone filter... both are easy to find and relatively cheap...

you'll have to search the forum for the throttle body spacer, but I have heard of them being used... I've also heard that they don't improve the performance of the "60 degree" v6 by much... which is what we both, and many others have on this forum... another great resource is www.60degreev6.com which will tell you more about your motor and the torque settings you will need after you buy a torque wrench which can also be had for cheap if need be...

it's a cat-back exhaust, which means it runs from the catalytic converter, which is below the passenger footwell, all the way back to and sometimes including exhaust tips... I'm fairly certain that dynomax only offers one of these "cat-back" systems for the third generation camaros and firebirds...

but you can check www.summitracing.com which allow you to search for hours building dream lists of parts that make you go faster... that is where I bought my dynomax exhaust, and it was 150 dollars... they will also have intakes, throttle body spacers, etc., etc., etc.

I'm serious about the shop manual though... cause even if you don't wanna get serious about tuning, and you just wanna throw parts at your car, you still need a basic understanding of what your throwin at it... otherwise it's either a)not going to work, b)not going to work right, or c)gonna **** something up...

new v6's, like the ones in the 2000 dodge charger, are gonna be hard to touch even if it IS the 2.7L, or the lowest engine made for it... these v6's are outdated, and can be modified due to the wealth of knowledge and parts availible to do so, but there is no easy go fast.... even if it's the 5spd, don't expect to go faster without some money, no matter what your mpg will suffer...

although you could swap to a newer 3.4L which is almost a direct fit... IF you learn how, or pay someone to do it... that would give you a faster ride and get better fuel economy... not to mention keep up with your dads ride

sorry for the length

 

Dynomax SuperTurbo cat back. I have it on my car and I am very happy with it. People have thought I had a V8 while it idled.

I would also read the stickies at the top of the V6 section. This LINK has a lot of parts/info for our engines.

 

ok. so these are easy and cheap mods that everybody keep saying theres not a such thing.

cant afford engine swap
only mods here in there

how do i tune my computer
can i do that with normal tools


but i get my car tommorrow round noon


its been sitting for a year
gotta dig it outta snow
gotta jump it cuz of sitting battery
and needs air in tires cuz of the cold

any thing i should look for that should stop me from buying it

it sets me back a $1000

anything i should do soon as i get it

help

not use to fuel injection

 

OK, I'm gonna put it real simply. Without knowledge or money you wont go fast. Take all your filter tubing out and put a 3", $25 cone on the TB. that's about all that can be done really cheaply.

No, you cannot tune your computer without money and the knowledge of what your doing.

Sounds like you'll probably just be spending most of your money making this car run stock. When you get it it'll probably need new plugs, wires, rotor cap, air filter, clean the TB, run seafoam through it, clean the IAC, a new battery, alignment, and who knows what else. The alternator could be bad, the tires could be dry rotted, on and on.

 

The challenge with these cars has always been the power to weight ratio. If you have a heavy car with a lightly powered engine, you will always be "smoked" by the lighter car more powerful engine. End of lecture.

So, what do you want? 12 sec., or a fun daily driver? You need to decide on that first.

I spent about $3000 on doing a built 2.8 stroker on my '89 Firebird (which I love by the way and am having a lot of fun with). Will I drag with newer Mustangs or Chargers, etc....? NO!!!! (too old anyway) Plus, I'm still dealing with 20 year old technology.

So, bottom line, what do you want and what do you want to do?

 

i know i will need a tune up
thats a given


and

would i love a 12 sec car? yes
do i have the money for a 12 sec car? no
even if i did have the money will i take it to a track? no

and a unique thing about the charger that have like a extended 3rd gear if you will
we went from like 80 to 1 something all in one gear and the car downshifted twice

is that tecnology to new for our cars?
or can we make our cars like that?

 

is the only reason you wanna make it fast to compete with your dads car?

 

no not at all.

i might take it to a track who knows.

but having a high performace car is nice for a speed demon

 

So,.........is Dad willing to help you with a build??? Having said that, there are many posts on how to do that - turbo, nitrous, build and N/A.....

Also, while I can't speak for the automatic, for the T-5, third gear is the power gear. After my build on my '89 Firebird, I can easily reach 130-140 km/hr (close to 100 mph) at about 6,000 rpm before I shift to 4th (I'm still very nervous about taking it past that - even though I have been told that I can probably go to 7,000-7,500 rpm).

But, this is my daily driver that I wanted to "wake-up". If I got 1 hp/ cubic inch, I should be somewhere around 190 hp (I'm a little scared about risking it on a dyno right now). But power/weight ratio means I'd probably still get smoked by a lot of import racers. On the other hand, cruising on the highway or the backroads brings on a whole other dimension to the V-6!!

Anyway, point is, congratulations on choosing a Thirdgen and joining a pretty great group. Now...if Dad is the performance enthusiast, what better way to spend some quality Father/Son bonding time and build your car!!

 

check out my other thread
to see if i should keep my cai
or get k and n or something
or turn it into ram




but wat kind of tranny does the 87 come with
which is my power gear


and on the way home i got up to 110 wit no problem

and the stock exhaust doesnt sound to bad
even tho one got clogged up when i almost crashed cuz of 60 mph winds stupid backroads ha

 

T-5 is the manual tranny
700R4 is the automatic tranny

 

Since I'm a father (and grandfather) let me give you some fatherly advice. Make sure the car is safe (suspension, tires, and brakes) before you get too brave. The car you bought is twenty-two years old.

With driving skill you can push the V6 very hard through corners but you are not going beat to many other cars in a straight line. Further, the V6s have a sweet-spot in the torque bad and you need to find it to get the most out of the motor (mine is between 2700 and 3000 rpm). Winding the car out to 4500 rpm will not make you go any faster but will make trips to the gas station more frequent.

 

i have the auto

so i'll be doin a lot of searching for the next hour or 2.
and while im searching
is my stock cai supposed to look like a turbo sorta?

its the firebirds suspension suppose to be stiff?

i feel every bump in the road

tires are decent

brakes are newish


all the major stuff is fine

but a lot of minor stuff need fixing

headliner
muffler is not connect to exhaust(reason why it sounded so different)
need new seats (or covers)
paint touch up
new carpet

 

In the pics you put up, I'm really not sure. it almost looks like someone put a different air box in your car. I think your stock air box should look like this...

Although Im really not 100% with Firebirds, as I have a Camaro, but whats in your car just doesn't look right.

 

Sorry for not catching it sooner - blame it on the Steelers. Anyway, the picture above shows the stock air cleaner assembly. So, do what you want with what you have, anything to open up the breathing works for these cars. But, has the back-end also been opened up? Meaning cat-back exhaust, etc. to complete the picture.

 

ok i think imma just replace it with another filter?
do i move it keep it there wat

its right by the alt

and no its stock exhaust
sorta
its broke off right at the muffler

 

O_O My intake looks nothing like that! I guess mine is a 3.1 though, may be different for the 2.8 (prolly was). Getting a K&N and cutting open the filter box is a very common thing. I've always wanted to get one of those Spectre filters and just put it on my TB, make it look like the filters some of the the TPI's have. I know it'd be sucking engine compartment air but it would breath so well.
And is exhaust really a problem for these cars? A 2.25" pipe isn't small, especially for a small V6. I could see headers and a new Y making a difference, or cat elimination, but it seems pretty free flowing fron the cat back. A better muffler is always good though.

 

i replace my air filter today
with a spectre red cone to match the car
cant really tell a difference in anything

had to replace the sensor cuz it was rusted on to my last filter

and i have a question
why do i never see the fan on?

carb cars the fan is always on

why dont the fan ever come on, on these cars

anything else i need to know
i loving the info and help

 

we have an electric fan, the computer (more fuel injection stuff) controls when the fan is on by knowing what temperature the engine is.

 

well can i wire it so it comes on when my car come on

what will it hurt?
what will it help?

really would like to

can somebody post an how to for me


(ha this thread will prolly be sticky for all v6 noobs once its said and done )

 

The computer really knows best when to turn the fan on. I'd let it keep making that decision. Better to let your engine run at the temp it was made to and not be wasting the power it takes to run the fan.

 

Your fan will kick on at 236 degrees. If you have it running all the time, the engine will run too cool and keep jumping back and forth between open and closed loop. You will go through a ton of gas and its just not good for your engine to keep flucuating like that, engines like to run at one temp.

Carb cars dont always have the fan "running". Its a clutch fan, so its always spinning, but not necessarily forcing much air really.

I dont mean to come off as rude or anything, but you sound young and need to learn more about cars before you go out and be a "speed demon". First off, get all your maintenance and repairs taken care of, then start doing your "make me fast" modifications. Get your exhaust fixed, do a TOTAL tune up, get any other items fixed that need to be done. Have an inspection done, brake inspection, everything under the hood and body, that will tell you what you need done. Anyone who has been here for a while will tell you the same thing, trust us, weve been doing this a while

 

ok but first off im 20 years old
ben drivin since i was 14

motors never intrest me much til now
so thats why i dont have the expertise as everybody else

but i did have a major problem today
every since i replaced my air filter and
air sensor

my car cut off at like 3 lights back to back

then it was fine

then couple blocks later did it again


and later on in da day i was driving
and everytime i hit the gas it was like the car was dyin til i let go.

WATS GOIN ON?


and

these cars SUCK in the snow and winter

 

yea, they really don't like snow, they hate ice more though. might have done something wrong when you installed the sensor.what's the air sensor you replaced? the mass air flow sensor? try putting the old one back in to see if it runs better.

 

the sensor thats goes into the intake

could it be makein my car do that

or is it another sensor i need to replace

 

I agree with what ChevyRacingRox says. Go back to where you started and change one thing at a time. On diagnostics and repair, rule number one in my experience, change one thing and one thing only - then observe the effect. If it works, great, if not, put the original part back in and move to the next possibility. The key thing is not to get into changing a whole bunch of things all at once and still have the problem. That becomes even more confusing.

Changing the air filter should be fine, but when changing a sensor, did you disconnect any electrical connections or vacuum lines? That will definitely affect the car for sure. Double check those connections.

Also, go out and buy a Haynes manual or better yet order a Helms manual (www.helminc.com) to get the factory service manual. If you don't know much about tune-ups, engines, etc - good places to start.

Also, start small and work your way up. Take an evening or weekend car maintenance class. Get used to changing plugs, filters, etc. before moving on to bigger things. If you have a major problem, better to take it to a mechanic - cheaper in terms of cost and aggravation. When your confidence and skill increases, then tackle it yourself.

I know it didn't help with your car's problem, but perhaps I helped put things into perspective.

 

so it idles fine, but when you give it throttle, it wants to die? sounds like the ignition control module to me.

 

i have to emphasize don't just buy new sensors, your wasting your money 1/2 the time. sometimes you can just spray brake cleaner on a sensor, let dry, and reinstall it to get it working right. I did that on my mass air flow and idle air control valve. it really helps, not to mention a can of brake cleaner costs what, $3?

another common problem people replace sensors for is a vacuum leak or bad connection. yea, the sensor isn't reading right, because its not getting the proper information. know what i mean?

 

ok great. im glad u told me bout that.
so lets get these sensors cleaned


where are they
what they look like
how do i remove them

pics would be nice


cant afford the haynes book at this time
to save u a sob story things are ruff

 

the mass air flow is the sensor in the intake tube, near the air filter and has the honeycomb looking thing inside the tube. spray the honeycomb w/ brake cleaner and let it air dry. same w/ the iac, but that only effects idle so don't worry about it just yet. also, run seafoam through the intake, it helped mine when i had problems.
let the car warm up, slowly feed about 1/3 can through the brake booster line(back of intake to drivers side big black rubber line) or throttle body. let the vacuum do most of the work, don't let it leak and suck air. it'll burn white smoke a while.

 

[quote=drdave88;4025892]youve already got a cold air intake, dont change out what you have. just take the air filter box out, cut the bottoms off and reinstall it to open up airflow, do that mod quote]
when you do this mod, is the air still getting filtered???

 

If you do it right, so the air still flows through the filter.

 

yeah I have seen this mod done before

personally I think cutting off the bottom of your air box should be a last resort cai since it doesn't help improve flow it just decreases restriction...

 

its an ok mod. I did it to my camaro, not sure if it helped though because my car wasn't running when i did it. the best part about this mod is it's free.

 

When i did it, it felt like the car pulled a lil bit more at higher RPMs, due to less airflow restriction. The only problem is you might wanna avoid big puddles, lol.

 

after seeing the mixed reviews, i dont think i'd cut mine. i know this has probably been covered to death in other threads, but what about these big-dollar air filters, like k+s?? are they really worth the extra cash?? air filters are on my growing list of what i want to do. and i've been on alot of the boards here reading about cai's - it dont really seem like there's a good one out there. so i'm gonna keep it stock

 

can somebody post pics of where you iac is?
because i dont know what i'm looking for and no thread has a pic, they just assume you know where it is.

and are there other sensors i should clean, that can affect my car cutting off.
is so a pic for that also would be nice

 

The IAC is the thing thats screwed into the throttle body. If your looking from the front of the engine it'll be on the left of it with a few wires going to it.

 

yea i was wondering about this too, can you just take the whole air box out and put a cone on the end of the throttle body? do you have to re locate a sensor or anything when you do this? i would imagine so. thats the only reason i would worry about eliminating the stock air box assembly

 

see there are so many of those...
and what part do i clean

thats why i asked for pics please

 

here you go. tell me if it doesn't work. i circled the iac.