so heres my dyno graph now that i know what rpm each power number was made at
this is the grapgh from my first pull put peak numbers were only off 200 rpm on my last pull so i edit this graph to show the rpms of peak numbers

based on shift points even on my lowest power pull which is the graph
the pull started at 2,800 rpms so lets see what the motor was making power wise there

307 rwtq @ 2,800 rpms
203 rwhp @ 2,800 rpms

not to shabby

347 rwtq @ 3800 rpms
250 rwhp @ 3800 rpms

and heres were timming issues killed the pull

330 rwtq @ 3900 rpms
262 rwhp @ 3900 rpms

and ending the pull

233 rwtq @ 5000 rpms
250 rwhp @ 5000 rpms

the large dip at the end of the graph is fom letting out of the throtle before stoping the dyno recording so 5k rpms would be right before the dip


now the difference between my first and last pull is this

on the second pull we relized the timing issue( the second pull was teh same as the first pull minus about 3hp and 8 ftlbs due to higher iats ), with no way to resolve the issue the only choice i had was to bump base timming. so i pulled out the timming light and bumped base timing 2*

this netted a gain of

33 rwtq @ 4000 rpm 368 ftlb vs 335 @ 4k from the first to last pull
9 rwhp @ 4000 rpm 268 rwhp vs 261 @ 4k from the first to last pull

really makes u wonder what the car would have done had the ignition been able to advance to 18-20* like i had the tune set to do

peak numbers should also have been in the 5,500- 6k rpm range with the cam i was using and as u can see 10* of ignition timming @ 4k rpms really makes a motor fall on its face hence the tq falloff and the pretty much shallow drop in hp since the motor was fighting to rev up.

infact the highest the motor would even rev up was 5200 under load after that it was liek a revlimiter u could hold ur foot to the floor and it just would not rev up anymore.


im really tempted to redyno the 3.1 now that ive had a chance to get all my old datalogs and dyno info from one of my old harddrive backups and actually had a chance to sit down and look at all the data

 

Impressive numbers!

 

thanks im deffinatly thinking the 3.1 needs a redyno before i drop the 3.0L 70/75mm turbo combo in. the car ran 13.0 right before the dyno and has bested of low 12's after the dyno, so im sure those numbers will be much higher now the ignition system is fixed and the tune is much closer to being dead on

its a shame i only get to take the car out 1 or 2 times a year and thats when i get to tune a lil bit etc, usually i take the car out make some small changes and then park it for about 6 months then do it all over again,wish i had more time i could just tune it and be done with it in one shot lol

 

It would've been better with a 3x00 top end. I can't wait to get the rest of my turbo stuff together to see what I'll put down. Good luck with the 3.0 next spring.

 

It's still just one 'm'

 

lmao

 

yeah deff be nice to see, im not sure if im going to run the 3.0 yet on paper its a really good combination real world well that could be a whole nother story.ill find out in 2-3 weeks though as my 3.0 is going to be dynoed if it dosent put down the numbers i think it should im going to sell off the shortblock and just put together a 3.4 or keep the 3.1

 

That's sweet man. I do need to ask, your redline is 5k? Mine doesn't shift until about 5750-6000. I'm wondering if it's gonna blow, lol, or your redline is lower because of the turbo.

 

Wait, he made that much power without a 3x00 top end?!

 

redline on the 3.1 is actually 7,500 but because on the dyno it had no ignition advance the motor would not rev up over 5k thats why the dyno pulls stop at 5k, in all reality with no advance the pulls were over around 4,300 rpm we just kept the throttle open and watched the motor inch up in the rpms

yup thats right good old iron heads, what ppl fail to relize is grand national heads are even worse then the 6/60 iron heads yet they can make 500+ hp and run into the 9's with there crappy stuff

id liek to point out one major gain on an iron head on the intake side, if u pull out the ex and intake valve on a set of stock heads the ex valve will not even fit were the intake valve is, the opening is even smaller then the ex valve. and is one of the major points that needs attention on the iron heads. next week when i get my cell service back im going to upload some pics of a set of heads i just did that show the specific key points that need work on the iron heads. done right a set of iron heads can be made to flow over 200 cfm by anyone with a lil patience and a few hours free time



btw what does a set of iron heads wiegh again, complete minus rockers.
set i just did wieghed in a 25#'s a piece when i was done, forgot to wiegh them before i started

 

So now I am confused... people have said that bone stock the 3x00 heads outflow some of the best ported iron heads, but now you say that. In a N/A application is the trouble of the hybrid worth it or is the turbo in your case masking some of the weakness of the iron heads?

 

well stock for stock they kill the iron stuff.when ported right the difference between the 2 is not much at all.

to be honest if i was going to build an n/a motor id go with the aluminum heads,mainly for the intake setup.

as far as supercharged or turbo builds i see no real reason to do the hybrid.the money and time spent on the conversion could be better spent elsewere.

hell look at pilsburys dyno

at 1/3 or 1/4 throttle he put down 17x rwhp and 220 rwtq iirc with basically no boost i think he put down 1 psi tops before the clutch gave up. and that was also with iron heads.he has one bad *** setup as well he just needs to get that spec stage 3 clutch in it so we can finish tunning it

 

Thanks for clearing that up. I have been reading and reading, trying to decide how exactly I want to build an engine for my DD.

 

project89,

Could you post up the flow numbers from the test you just had done on those heads you just finished doing up for me?

 

??? Even the '95-'97 3100 heads outflow fully ported iron heads. 3500 heads put out another 30 cfm beyond what the 2000+ heads can do. Why start with junk and port it when you can start with something that much better and port it? Or not and still outperform iron heads lol. I'd way rather push boost through 3x00 heads and get better results with less pressure. To each their own.

 

paper work is in the box with the heads on there way to you ima send u a pm
easy,cost and no hasseles of doing the swap not everyone can get a fwd set to work on there car or can afford it.

 

I paid $60 for the last heads I bought at the local pick-n-pull. Yea I have several sets don't ask why. I can get a complete 3400 lower & upper maifolds and injector rail for another $55. There's tons of 3x00 stuff out there dirt cheap. I can understand frugality and even stubborness (because I am) but there comes a point where it's pissing in the wind. You can put as much time into the iron heads & induction as you want but ultimately you're only just where you would be with a stock 3x00 setup after investing alot more energy.

 

not really figure a first timer 10 hours into the heads,and it bolts back on then u dont have to deal with the pistons or accesory issues or getting the dis to work.

at most u would have to spend some money to have the valve guides cut down a bit if u wanted to run a mega lift cam but thats not even exspensive

 

Sorry boss, I couldn't resist

 

lol its all good